The True Story of Kitty Genovese AKA The Girl who inspired Rorschach.

N

Noir

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We are all familiar with the girl in the story who after requesting Walter Kovacs to make a special dress was beaten raped and Murdered outside her apartment building. The sad thing about this, is that, it ACTUALLY HAPPENED.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

KittyGenovese.JPG





Kitty Genovese was the oldest of five children in a middle class Italian American family and was raised in Brooklyn. After her mother witnessed a murder in the city, the family chose to move to Connecticut in 1954. Genovese, however, nineteen at the time, chose to remain in the city, where she lived for nine years. Kitty eventually took a job as a bar manager at Ev's 11th Hour Sports Bar on Jamaica Avenue in Hollis, Queens. At the time of her murder, she lived in a Queens apartment she shared with Mary Ann Zielonko.[4]
Attack

Genovese had driven home in the early morning of March 13, 1964. Arriving home at about 3:15 a.m. and parking about 100 feet (30 m) from her apartment's door, she was approached by Winston Moseley. Moseley ran after her and quickly overtook her, stabbing her twice in the back. When Genovese screamed out, her cries were heard by several neighbors; but on a cold night with the windows closed, only a few of them recognized the sound as a cry for help. When one of the neighbors shouted at the attacker, "Let that girl alone!", Moseley ran away and Genovese slowly made her way towards her own apartment around the end of the building. She was seriously injured, but now out of view of those few who may have had reason to believe she was in need of help.
Records of the earliest calls to police are unclear and were certainly not given a high priority by the police. One witness said his father called police after the initial attack and reported that a woman was "beat up, but got up and was staggering around." [5]
Other witnesses observed Moseley enter his car and drive away, only to return ten minutes later. He systematically searched the parking lot, train station, and small apartment complex, ultimately finding Genovese, who was lying, barely conscious, in a hallway at the back of the building. Out of view of the street and of those who may have heard or seen any sign of the original attack, he proceeded to further attack her, stabbing her several more times. Knife wounds in her hands suggested that she attempted to defend herself from him. While she lay dying, he sexually assaulted her. He stole about $49 from her and left her dying in the hallway. The attacks spanned approximately half an hour.
A few minutes after the final attack, a witness, Karl Ross, called the police. Police and medical personnel arrived within minutes of Ross' call; Genovese was taken away by ambulance and died en route to the hospital. Later investigation by police and prosecutors revealed that approximately 38 individuals nearby had heard or observed portions of the attack, though none could have seen or been aware of the entire incident. [6] Only one witness (Joseph Fink) was aware she was stabbed in the first attack, and only Karl Ross was aware of it in the second attack. Many were entirely unaware that an assault or homicide was in progress; some thought that what they saw or heard was a lover's quarrel or a drunken brawl or a group of friends leaving the bar outside when Moseley first approached Genovese.



Simply sad.
 
Latest research tends to support the fact that it didn't happen quite like that at all but yes, it is sad. Would Moore have included her as a motivation for Walter Kovacs turning to a life of vigilantism had it have been widely known in the 80s that Kitty was a lesbian? In the context of WATCHMEN and taking into account his skewed sexual politics, would Rorschach have been quite so affected by her demise if he himself had known of her sexual orientation?
Discuss that sucker.
 
In the context of WATCHMEN and taking into account his skewed sexual politics, would Rorschach have been quite so affected by her demise if he himself had known of her sexual orientation?
Discuss that sucker.

It is evidence that Rorschach is gay.
 
if Rorschach knew he would certainly help her, because in his mind the Criminal element is still more scumlike than homosexuals..



And yes, it is implied that Rorschach has some deep-seeded homosexuality.
 
if Rorschach knew he would certainly help her, because in his mind the Criminal element is still more scumlike than homosexuals..

I'm not so sure about that. I could easily see him going the route of "You lie in the bed you make".

And yes, it is implied that Rorschach has some deep-seeded homosexuality.

This I do agree with.
 
You can test this today yourselves in public -cry for help, people will ignore you or figure someone else will go get help. That's how we are.
 
I read somewhere that this is in fact, a myth. Several people saw the attack and called the police. But the phone lines ended up tied up somehow, and people couldn't get through, or something along those lines.
 
That is infact not true. there was a formal investigation and it was concluded that in fact as many as 40 people either witnessed some of the attacks or heard the screaming.
 
This story is in every psychology textbook ever printed. The fact that no one called the police or intervened is, in psychological terms at least, due to diffusion of responsibility. Since so many people witnessed it, none of them felt personally responsible for helping - they all assumed "someone else" would do it.

This phenomenon has been repeated in lab settings and shown to occur pretty consistently. I've never heard of the Kitty Genovese story being false, but the logic behind it is sound.
 
if Rorschach knew he would certainly help her, because in his mind the Criminal element is still more scumlike than homosexuals..



And yes, it is implied that Rorschach has some deep-seeded homosexuality.

Throughly agree, espicially with Rorschach being "in the closet." Would explain how he would "investigate" Viedt's supposed homosexuality. Plus there's some context between him and Dan--probably why Laurie hated ole' Walter so much, she knew he subconsciously wanted some of Dan's Kool-Aid. :o

I'm not so sure about that. I could easily see him going the route of "You lie in the bed you make".



This I do agree with.

Still, I'd think he'd trump brutally attacking a woman over homsexuality. He'd probably kill the guy there, maybe give Kitty a piece of his mind towards her sexual orientation, then called an ambulance so he doesn't have to take care of her.
 
I never really got the sense that Rorshach was in the closet, just that he was a crazy right-wing fundamentalist. Although, I guess current events have shown us that more than a couple crazy right-wing fundamentalists were in fact gay, so who knows? :p
 
The Moments with Dan are hinted at a secret homosexual love for him.

Also, the way he wants to investigate Veidt about being gay leads some to believe that he is just trying to repress his own sexuality.

He also has a fear of nude women, which furthers the claims.
 
I never read Homosexual in Rorschach - and especially never his relationship with Dan.

I think his comment about Veidt was more grouping all liberals as "**** and queers".

His fears of nude women come from his mother being a prostitute. I simply think Rorschach is asexual.
 
The Moments with Dan are hinted at a secret homosexual love for him.

Also, the way he wants to investigate Veidt about being gay leads some to believe that he is just trying to repress his own sexuality.

He also has a fear of nude women, which furthers the claims.

Those are all assertions made based on his actions, not facts. I completely respect your assertions, but they're far from being indisputable facts.

I never read Homosexual in Rorschach - and especially never his relationship with Dan.

I think his comment about Veidt was more grouping all liberals as "**** and queers".

His fears of nude women come from his mother being a prostitute. I simply think Rorschach is asexual.

I agree completely. And a think his relationship with Dan could be construed as "too close" or something because Rorschach just doesn't have any other friends. IMO, it's more of a sad insight into just how lonely he is.
 
As above. Rorschach is clearly the original Forty (something) Year Old Virgin with major hang-ups as far as sex is concerned (the act being something sordid and violent and best avoided, easy when you're a brutal whackjob with questionable personal hygiene) and a misogynistic streak all courtesy of mommy dearest. The bullies who wanted to pull down his pants and give him "an examination" when he was eleven probably didn't help much either.

That awkward lingering handshake with Dan in the Owlship is more indicative of his general social ineptitude and sheer inexperience when it comes to the etiquette of dealing with other humans in a refined, decent manner, something that Rorschach has had precious little need for throughout his adult life - little call for it when for years, your only interaction with your fellow man has been to whale on scumbags.

Which all gets me to a wonderin' why fanboys always think he's so damn cool? Kinda misses the point that Moore had in mind when he created him and his s hitty existence...
 
As above. Rorschach is clearly the original Forty (something) Year Old Virgin with major hang-ups as far as sex is concerned (the act being something sordid and violent and best avoided, easy when you're a brutal whackjob with questionable personal hygiene) and a misogynistic streak all courtesy of mommy dearest. The bullies who wanted to pull down his pants and give him "an examination" when he was eleven probably didn't help much either.

That awkward lingering handshake with Dan in the Owlship is more indicative of his general social ineptitude and sheer inexperience when it comes to the etiquette of dealing with other humans in a refined, decent manner, something that Rorschach has had precious little need for throughout his adult life - little call for it when for years, your only interaction with your fellow man has been to whale on scumbags.

Which all gets me to a wonderin' why fanboys always think he's so damn cool? Kinda misses the point that Moore had in mind when he created him and his s hitty existence...


That's how it always is. They always find some fictional character "cool" but when it comes to someone like that or close to that in reality there looked down upon. It pisses me off because there are people out there(a few of them are my friends) that are bad at conversation and social skills so there wall flowers at parties for the most part. So many people like to **** on people who don't talk a lot and look down on them like "I can't stand antisocial people" but then they all adore and love a character like and named "Silent Bob" from the Kevin Smith films.:whatever:
 
Because they identify with the character.
 
Sexually inexperienced? Poor hygiene and grooming? Eat crap? Live in squalor? Hate their mothers and the world in general?

Teen fanboys. Mebbe you got a point... :cwink:
 
Which all gets me to a wonderin' why fanboys always think he's so damn cool? Kinda misses the point that Moore had in mind when he created him and his s hitty existence...

Because on some sick level, we wish we would be that way. He's not encumbered by morality or tolerance or weakness or generally giving a **** what anyone thinks about him. He knows what's right and he doesn't compromise. He's the embodiment of that dark little corner of all our brains and I think that makes us want to root for him.

Plus, he's just plain bizarre, and people are always fascinated by the bizarre.
 
Because on some sick level, we wish we would be that way. He's not encumbered by morality or tolerance or weakness or generally giving a **** what anyone thinks about him. He knows what's right and he doesn't compromise. He's the embodiment of that dark little corner of all our brains and I think that makes us want to root for him.

See Captain, I told ya.
 
As above. Rorschach is clearly the original Forty (something) Year Old Virgin with major hang-ups as far as sex is concerned (the act being something sordid and violent and best avoided, easy when you're a brutal whackjob with questionable personal hygiene) and a misogynistic streak all courtesy of mommy dearest. The bullies who wanted to pull down his pants and give him "an examination" when he was eleven probably didn't help much either.

That awkward lingering handshake with Dan in the Owlship is more indicative of his general social ineptitude and sheer inexperience when it comes to the etiquette of dealing with other humans in a refined, decent manner, something that Rorschach has had precious little need for throughout his adult life - little call for it when for years, your only interaction with your fellow man has been to whale on scumbags.

Which all gets me to a wonderin' why fanboys always think he's so damn cool? Kinda misses the point that Moore had in mind when he created him and his s hitty existence...

Its because people simply see the badass that breaks fingers to get what he wants - not the person behind the mask.

Which is...exactly the opposite of the point Moore was making :(

Now Adrien Veidt - there is a hero :heart:
 
Actually, although over 40 people heard the attack, they misinterpreted the attack as a husband-and-wife fight or a gang of rowdy youths. Sensing a good story, the local paper villified them and the rest of the media followed suit. I don't think it's fair to blame them.
 

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