Homecoming The Zendaya is Mary Jane thread

[Dark Raven]

I mean, technically, they could do that.

but that would be really changing the character - to the point where it's essentially a different character, imo. She'd be MJINO ( MJ In Name Only ).

add to that the fact they changed her race, you'd then have a MJ who doesn't look or behave like traditional MJ.

so, a double (negative) change.

as others here who are fine with the race change said previously, getting the character's personality and "spirit" right is most important.

Making MJ start out as a shy, awkward, withdrawn, conservative, frumpy, plain HS student who transforms into stunning, outgoing, super model socialite in college is so totally NOT the character of traditional ( or Ultimate ) MJ.

Well some have said that they don't really care what she's looks like as long as she's like MJ in personality and spirit, as you say. But what will they say if she's not even like that? Isn't that exactly what people said about MBJ in FFINO that they didn't care he was black as long as he retained the spirit and personality of Johnny Storm, which he didn't even do that?

And Zendaya wouldn't even be MJINO if it turns out she only changes her name to that in the end but her real name is Michelle. Otherwise Peter could change his name to MJ and he'd be MJINO too.

 

[Kurenai]

If she'd be Black Cat, people would be calling her Storm.

That is true, black girl in a white wig and you automatically think Storm, which is why I don't think she's Black Cat, but wouldn't mind.

Nice theory, Kurenai.

Thank you, I have watched The Breakfast Club, and read 'Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane' and a bit of Ultimate Spider-Man so I've noticed some things.

given what I've seen of Zendaya's character's "look," I'd actually be more offended if she's MJ and they changed the character's looks and backstory and personality to match Kurenai's theory than if they simply race changed the character.

Nothing I pointed to would be a change in personality, and backstory. Everything that I pointed out is in the Ultimate Spider-Man and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane comics, which Jon is drawing inspiration from. To expect a 616!MJ is to be disappointed.

You are right that how 1610!MJ still dressed more appealing, but the transformation that Zendaya's character might change into might extend beyond homecoming, kind of like Gwen in the Spectucalar Spider-Man cartoon, Gwen never went back on her transformation, most high school movies don't have the character going back to being like they were before, they might not be as glammed up, but they're still better dressed, if that's what you're worried about.

If your problem is that MJ shouldn't do the cliche transformation thing b/c it's not her and she never did that, I mean I guess I understand.

Overall, you may not have to worry, this is only a possibility if Zendaya is playing MJ, she could still be and most likely is playing a different character.

Is that Felicity Smoak?

I don't know why I laughed so hard.

 

[Lantern Venom]

What if Michelle gets some style lessons from Aunt May on how to doll herself up to attract Peter? Maybe she will be May's pet project to turn the frumpy science geek into a hot chick and learn how to have the guys chasing after her. They can even have scenes of her trying out different catch phrases to see what works before she settles on "tiger":

Face it panda, you've just hit the jackpot.

Face it hippo, you've just hit the jackpot.

Face it walrus, you've just hit the jackpot.

Face it rhino, you've just hit the jackpot.

Face it vulture, you've just hit the jackpot.

Face it armadillo, you've just hit the jackpot.

That can be Michelle's story arc in these movies until she finally changes her name to Mary Jane and becomes the MJ we all know.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

She too young to be Black Cat. I remember in USM comic she was shocked when she see Spider-Man was just young teen lol.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That's because it was 1610 Spider-Man. In 616 Spider-Man, she's the same age as Parker.

 

[sl500jazz]

Reposting my response from the MJ thread cause it's relevant.

I'm having mixed feelings about the whole John Hughes/Breakfast club thing they're going for. It's one thing to draw inspiration from those films in terms of tone...it's another to outright replicate its characters.

That being said, if they're going for Breakfast Club archetypes, Liz, Flash, and Peter can be easily worked into the roles of Claire, Andrew, and Brian, (as the princess, the jock, and the brain, respectively). Things get much less obvious with the other two.

A big part of 616 Mary Jane's character is that, during adolescence, she develops the façade as a coping mechanism to hide her vulnerability and keep others at an arms length (out of a fear of commitment). The façade that she develops parallels the mask that Peter wears as Spider-man. However, instead of the 616 façade, perhaps they're going with something more akin to Allison's "basket case" for the facade? Maybe they think it'd be redundant to have the two female leads, MJ and Liz, be popular girls at Midtown. Giving the character an Allison style makeover (as cliché as it may be) would also work for a Jackpot style reveal, as you pointed out.

However, MJ dropping the façade in the 616 comics was the first step in the character's maturation and involved a major catalyst in the death of Gwen. If they were going with the "basket case" angle, hopefully there'd be good reason for her to decide that she no longer has to pretend...other than a makeover. Regardless, if I were trying to make a John Hughes-esque Spider-man film, and had to pick a high school archetype that best suits classic Mary Jane, it would be "class clown" because she's highly extroverted, quick-witted, enjoys being the center of attention, and (initially) never seems to take anything seriously.

Any ideas as to which character might fill the roll of "the criminal", John Bender?

 

[Dark Raven]

The thing about finding out that MJ's party girl image is a facade is that in the 616 we encounter that image as the first thing. It's not that we see her eventually become that from a shy or frumpy girl. The idea is that it's easy to dismiss MJ as rather flighty and superficial. After the death of Gwen, Peter said something to the effect that MJ wouldn't even care if her own grandmother died. However, we find after digging deeper under the surface that there is more to her.

It's like meeting Cordelia in Buffy. She seemed to be the popular and superficial queen bee but as you got to know her you found out that there was far more to her than that. If instead, we meet her as Willow and she only eventually becomes Cordelia later on, that completely changes who she is and how we get to know her.

And that's the same with MJ. They don't have to copy the Breakfast Club completely, but can have their own archetypes. And 616 MJ is already an archetype without trying to fit her into one that's in the mould of the BC. Peter can discover that he doesn't really know her at all until she lets her guard down, but until then he thinks he has her figured out and has judged the book by its cover.

 

[Kurenai]

Any ideas as to which character might fill the roll of "the criminal", John Bender?

I don't want the 4 comparisons I made between Allison and MJ to be freaking anyone out, I thought it was minor in the grand scheme of things.

While I have stated Jon drawing inspiration from Ultimate Spider-Man and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, to completely dismiss that Jon could be pulling from 616 would be presumptious, so knowing that, I don't think Jon would completely be dismissive of any of MJ's characteristics in 616, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about, especially when we remember that Zendaya's character could be anyone.

Also, while MJ is extroverted, the class clown is not the archetype for her, they are written as either the individual who brings humor to the movie or are the annoyances, they are very one dimensional characters.

As for who could be "the criminal", if we look at the cast pic where the actors are copying the breakfast club, Tony Revolori's body is turned slightly like the character John Bender, but who's to say Tony's character is not embodying both the "the criminal" and the "jock" archetype, since Harrison Osterfield is not a part of the cast, and Jacob Batalon is rumored to be Ned Leeds who's character I don't see being a jock if that rumor is true.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I guess Jacob as Ned isn't that far of a stretch, going for more of a Ned Lee thing like they did the the spectacular spider-man series...

and with Neds history in the comics of becoming the Hobgoblin, it would fit "the criminal" role (even if it'll probably be awhile/ if ever, that we'll see him as Hoby)

though, still not sure how I feel about the Daily Bugle team all being younger in this (if the rumors are true)

but if anyone from the Bugle, I could more see him being Frederick Foswell (there is a bit of foreshadowing for that characters future alter-ago)
with him wearing the hat an oversized blazer jacket on set in some of those pics

 

[Kurenai]

Something to ponder over.

It seems MJ has been shown to have a likeness to Allison before on a cover of Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, but then again covers are covers.

Spoiler

I guess Jacob as Ned isn't that far of a stretch, going for more of a Ned Lee thing like they did the the spectacular spider-man series...

and with Neds history in the comics of becoming the Hobgoblin, it would fit "the criminal" role (even if it'll probably be awhile/ if ever, that we'll see him as Hoby)

though, still not sure how I feel about the Daily Bugle team all being younger in this (if the rumors are true)

but if anyone from the Bugle, I could more see him being Frederick Foswell (there is a bit of foreshadowing for that characters future alter-ago)
with him wearing the hat an oversized blazer jacket on set in some of those pics

I definitely like the idea of them planting villains, I still believe Jacob is Kong, I am wondering why he's wearing a wig on set tho, so maybe he is Ned.

 

[sl500jazz]

Also, while MJ is extroverted, the class clown is not the archetype for her, they are written as either the individual who brings humor to the movie or are the annoyances, they are very one dimensional characters.

That's a fair criticism of the trope. However, the comic relief character was , for the most part, MJ's initial role in the 60s Spider-man comics and suits her more naturally. She enjoys entertaining other people and the fact that she uses laughter as a means of hiding vulnerability or escaping a tough situation is built into her origin. Anyway, when referring to class clown, I was speaking more in terms of the character's personality as opposed to potential dimensionality--class clown being the perfect façade in a high school setting.

 

[Kurenai]

So it seems Zendaya more than likely is either Sally based on dialogue alone or a new character, she definitely seems to be a mix between Allison Reynolds from The Breakfast Club and Lindsay Weir from Freaks and Geeks

 

[Scarlet Spider]

The thing is, why would someone like Sally or an original character be set up to have an even bigger and more significant role in future films? It doesn't add up...

Whoever Zendaya is playing has got to be someone important from Spider-Man's mythos. She was the very first person cast in this production (after weeks of testing with other actresses, opposite Holland).

It definitely seemed like a role they gave alot of thought and wanted to be extra sure was cast correctly, not just for this film but the franchise going forward.

 

[Britney]

I still think she's our version of MJ... Michelle Johnson (or something J), or Michelle is still a secret name for Mary Jane.

They keep posing like this and it turns out Laura is Liz and Tony is Flash. I don't think the large guy is Gwen though :lol

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Actually the girl on the bottom is gwen there^

 

[sl500jazz]

I still think she's our version of MJ... Michelle Johnson (or something J), or Michelle is still a secret name for Mary Jane.

If Zendaya is MJ, then I'd hope the name is just a fake and she's not Michelle Johnson or something like that.

It is strange to me that they seem to be giving such an important role to an original character.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I really hope her OC becomes a highlight throughout the series.

 

[BatsDC]

She won't be MJ if she is Michelle, that theory is just plain stupid

 

[DigificWriter]

She won't be MJ if she is Michelle, that theory is just plain stupid

QFT.

"Michelle" is not some 'codename' to hide the 'real' character that Zendaya is playing.

As for her being an original character, it's possible that the character is a version of the character of Michelle Gonzoles, but even if she IS an original character, I have to ask what is so bad about that?

Regarding that EW cast photo from above, I believe that the heavier-set young man at the top of the photo is Ned Leeds.

 

[sl500jazz]

As for her being an original character, it's possible that the character is a version of the character of Michelle Gonzoles, but even if she IS an original character, I have to ask what is so bad about that?

Nothing really. I just wouldn't have expected it (given that she was cast relatively early in a role that's meant to expand in the future). I don't think it's Michele Gonzalez given that Zendaya is not hispanic. I'm intrigued to see what they plan on doing with Michelle in the long run...maybe she'll be a new love interest for Peter or maybe they're setting up a new super-powered character (either hero or villain). I can't wait to see who they cast as MJ if/when she does appear.

 

[DigificWriter]

Nothing really. I just wouldn't have expected it (given that she was cast relatively early in a role that's meant to expand in the future). I don't think it's Michele Gonzalez given that Zendaya is not hispanic.

The bolded doesn't mean anything.

The character can have a Hispanic last name and be Hispanic without the actress playing her being Hispanic.

 

[sl500jazz]

The bolded doesn't mean anything.

The character can have a Hispanic last name and be Hispanic without the actress playing her being Hispanic.

Sure. I just don't think it's likely.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sure. I just don't think it's likely.

ScreenRant does, and I've no reason to doubt their opinions/observations.

 

[Dark Raven]

The bolded doesn't mean anything.

The character can have a Hispanic last name and be Hispanic without the actress playing her being Hispanic.

Maybe she's Filipino.

After all, most Filipinos have Hispanic surnames without actually being Hispanic themselves.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Nothing really. I just wouldn't have expected it (given that she was cast relatively early in a role that's meant to expand in the future). I don't think it's Michele Gonzalez given that Zendaya is not hispanic.

There's nothing irregular or unlikely about a black person having a latino last name. Tony Revolori is latino, can't his surname be Thompson in the movie?