The Dark Knight Rises Theme of the Third movie

[metalhead_dave]

I don't know if this has been discussed before and I tried searching it. If it has, may it be sent to the dregs of this place.

But anyway, since Begins dealt with Fear and Batman becoming Gotham's catalyst, and then that naturally went to TDK's theme of escalation and total anarchy that the Joker is doing(maybe even duality with Two Face)... that's there for the third movie to tackle? Where would we go from here?

Of course TDK hasn't been released and Nolan could probably have the ending telling us what he wants to explore next. But I figure, what the hell... why not discuss where Batman should go after Dark Knight. First is fear, then is escalation, so what's next?

 

[JediTalen]

Darkness and Light:
Bruce is at the edge of being consumed by the "darkness" of the bat forever, then introducing Dick Greyson/Robin (in the Traditional Circus story) to become a "light" to redeem Bruce and bring him back into balance.

 

[GregComicFan]

I seriously doubt Nolan will introduce Robin in his trilogy. I wouldn't mind it... if his take on Robin was grounded in reality (a 12-year-old kid fighting crime is NOT grounded in reality)....but I would prefer NO Robin in Batman 3, but perhaps Dick Grayson (Dick, not Robin) or hints of Dick Grayson's existence.

Any ways...

I agree still with the above poster. I think Batman is gonna struggle to not be consumed.

 

[elgato]

Main theme: The Duality of Course!!!

Harvey's double personality

Batman- Good
Two Face- Bad
Catwoman-Good/Bad

 

[Canadianbat]

Duality has always been a theme though. That's the basis of Batman.

I think more of acceptance. That Batman can be now accepted as an authoritive figure by the police and society. That batman can lead into the fact that he can't do it all alone and will need some help.

 

[Canadianbat]

Duality has always been a theme though. That's the basis of Batman.

I think more of acceptance. That Batman can be now accepted as an authoritive figure by the police and society. That batman can lead into the fact that he can't do it all alone and will need some help.

 

[ModestMr.Green]

Redemption.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

Batman realizing he may not be far from what Dent's become. It's all summed up in the line in the new trailer, "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

I want to see not only Batman's struggle with continuing costumed crimed-fighting (how's that for aliteration) but also Bruce's struggle with why he began in the first place. Doubting his abilities to save Gotham. But he can't ever say "I quit," ala Batman Forever and Spider-Man 2. I'm so sick of superhero movies walking that path of the hero doubting himself and giving up, only to be forced back into the profession days later.

It's time a hero questioned himself, and decided that even though he may be fighting an uphill battle, he's doing it for the greater good, and giving up helps no one.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

The freaks really winning ground over the old mobster establishment. I think that, basically they should just ****ing stuff it with supervillains. With Two-Face as the main villain and an army of cameo's.

 

[That'ssuper!]

Redemption and the true meaning of heroism.

 

[Mutagen]

Redemption, in terms of Batman being badly beaten almost to death, then to come right back and win. Kinda like Knightfall. Only with Mr. Freeze, Riddler or Bane.

 

[elgato]

Batman III

The Story:
The Joker is inside Arkham asylum, but he has left a mark incide Gotham City, he has gave it a new nightmare to worry about. After burning half the body of Disstrict Attortney Harvey Dent, this one has turned into the city’s new villain and top criminal, Two Face, a mental-ill man who wants to kill the Batman and dissappear every mob boss in Gotham by turning into one.

The Dark Knight’s life has got more complicated, he has to incarcerate his best friend, the same time he wants to kill him, and confront his own feelings when he falls in love with Selina Kyle and her own alter-ego, The Catwoman, a cat-burglar with a black costume, a whip, and a cat mask who has also robbed the caped crusader’s heart and make him hessitate with his mission.

Casting:
Batman/Bruce Wayne-Christian Bale
Two Face-Aaron Eckhart
Catwoman/Selina Kyle-Marion Cotillard

 

[TinkTonks]

Batman realizing he may not be far from what Dent's become. It's all summed up in the line in the new trailer, "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

I want to see not only Batman's struggle with continuing costumed crimed-fighting (how's that for aliteration) but also Bruce's struggle with why he began in the first place. Doubting his abilities to save Gotham. But he can't ever say "I quit," ala Batman Forever and Spider-Man 2. I'm so sick of superhero movies walking that path of the hero doubting himself and giving up, only to be forced back into the profession days later.

It's time a hero questioned himself, and decided that even though he may be fighting an uphill battle, he's doing it for the greater good, and giving up helps no one.

Well said!! I would just like to add that I think whatever happens in the 3rd movie, the main focus should be on the Batman/Two-Face dynamic. And Batman's realization that 1.) he can't give up fighting for Gotham and 2.) finding out that he can't save everyone. Like Dent.

 

[Reflectionist]

Isn't it obvious?

Throughout all Superhero movies, the Superhero has two goals: save his friend, and defeat the enemy. And it's always been pretty clear cut, with a few exceptions. In this movie it's going to be very vague and a very tough decision, because of Harvey Dent. Technically, Harvey qualifies for both goals. And this may be just fine, and easily manageable for Bruce, had he not be undergoing a sort of psychological conditioning in this 'escalation' theme that the anarchy of the Joker is bringing.

If Bruce tries to bring down Harvey Dent with the mindset of escalation, and with the mindset he had while bringing the Joker down, everyone would get hurt, including Bruce. And, if Rachel dies in TDK, which I think she does (don't quote me on that), Bruce and Harvey will both be saddened by this, and thus give them a common motivation.

I think the theme of the movie will be Redemption, not only of Harvey, but of Bruce and the way that the Joker has shaken him to extreme measures.

Also, the Dick Grayson story might serve to further the story and further the theme, as well, while not giving too much. Robin doesn't need to be in this movie; these aren't your normal superhero movies; these are psychological thrillers parading around in the superhero genre. Like the Matrix, except with less outright fantasy.

Or so I've found....

 

[Reflectionist]

I think bringing in the Catwoman arc would be a nice way of reinforcing these themes as well, while providing a reason as to why Bruce would care to get involved with a woman again (again assuming Rachel dies; I think she does). He would question the duality he holds, of course, and use that as an excuse to not open up to a woman. But if there just happened to be a woman who was dealing with this same duality that he could relate to, it would open him up. And it would still bring in that dilemma between loving her, and defeating her.

The other stuff would come next; but I think the psychology would come first.

 

[Man Who Laughed]

I agree with most of what's been said, and have come to believe that redemption may very well be a theme. However, if that is one of the themes, I don't think we'd see it truly ring through till the third act.

It's tough to spend two hours talking about redemption and keep people interested. Eventually they'll just rather the movie be over so that everyone is redeemed in their own right and they can go home.

I think that's why the Robin arc in BF was so frustrating. We hear all this talk about Dick wanting revenge and blahblahblah, only to have the opportunity arrive so that he can turn coat and decide killing is unjust. Then he gets the double cross from Two-Face, and when Dent finally does die, it isn't even by Robin's hand.

All things aside, we need to see Bats truly struggle with his heroism. One of my favorite things to see as far as heroes go, is to watch a hero get the s*** kicked out of him. Make them nothing more than bloody mess struggling to even stand. Why do I enjoy that? It humanizes them. And it does it in a way that no amount of girl problems, money problems, social problems etc. can.

Yeah, Spidey has problems like a normal person, but a normal person can't ponder their problems while effortlessly web-slinging over the city. So I can sort of identify with that. But put him under a villains boot, lifeless with little chance of survival, that's a reality we all know, because its a possibility as well. OK, sorry. Got caught up in my thoughts there. /rant

 

[JokerLedger]

It all depends on the direction of the franchise.
If Nolan is going to leave an open ending with his third flick, I'd say the theme could be Curse. Why Curse? Because he's going to come to the realization that he is never going to stop all the crime in the city and live a normal life hence he's cursed for life as being Batman. Nothing positive will ever happen. More freaks, more crime, more of the same thing night after night.

 

[Nepenthes]

I think you're all wrong and Nolan is wrong. He's severely limiting the scope of the trilogy and his options in the 3rdfilm by categorically denying the inclusion of Robin. Especially because TDK already deals with "Robin" in a very big way.

We know Batman has started something he cannot end; a legion of freaks will rise up to meet his challenge. Being a smart and determined man Bruce would naturally realise that his next phase in the mission should be RECRUITMENT. It's an ideological battle now. The 3rd film should be about moving beyond *one* man and creating a legacy that will serve gotham for decades to come. As the film opens Bruce has been activily scouting for allies...and in a stroke of cruel fate, a circus boy in the 'Wayne Special Scolarship Program" loses his parents at a tender age. This is the kind of tragedy that could turn a boy into another Two-Face or Joker. Furthermore, this orphan is violent, trained and naturally gifted; the fates have aligned! He'll be the first 'test' of Batmans next phase. The catch? He's also a friggin carny.

Another challenge is represented by Catwoman; will she be another dillemma for Batman or is she in fact a blessing in disguise? End the film with Dick Grayson in his shiney new costume standing beside Batman and joined by Catwoman and Jim Gordon, as they survey a city none of them would have recognised only a few years before.

The batman-vigilantes in TDK set the stage perfectly for this theme for in movie three. Basically, the theme is 'the future'.

 

[anrrd_2]

I think you're all wrong and Nolan is wrong. He's severely limiting the scope of the trilogy and his options in the 3rdfilm by categorically denying the inclusion of Robin. Especially because TDK already deals with "Robin" in a very big way.

maybe he lied? or changed his mind...or maybe he has something else planned entirely...have faith nep, have faith

We know Batman has started something he cannot end; a legion of freaks will rise up to meet his challenge. Being a smart and determined man Bruce would naturally realise that his next phase in the mission should be RECRUITMENT. It's an ideological battle now. The 3rd film should be about moving beyond *one* man and creating a legacy that will serve gotham for decades to come. As the film opens Bruce has been activily scouting for allies...and in a stroke of cruel fate, a circus boy in the 'Wayne Special Scolarship Program" loses his parents at a tender age. This is the kind of tragedy that could turn a boy into another Two-Face or Joker. Furthermore, this orphan is violent, trained and naturally gifted; the fates have aligned! He'll be the first 'test' of Batmans next phase. The catch? He's also a friggin carny.

that was very well written...i was already sold on the introduction of dick in the 3rd movie and the birth of robin in the 4th...but if i wasnt puling for robin, that would have changed my mind....

the "friggin carny" line made me laugh

p.s.: if dick comes in during the 3rd film then barbara needs to come in during the 4th....yay for batgirl!

Another challenge is represented by Catwoman; will she be another dillemma for Batman or is she in fact a blessing in disguise? End the film with Dick Grayson in his shiney new costume standing beside Batman and joined by Catwoman and Jim Gordon, as they survey a city none of them would have recognised only a few years before.

i truly want to see a nolanverse catwoman, but i dont think she should become an ally so quickly...play out the sexual tension between good and evil alittle longer than 2 hours

 

[wrhssaxensemble]

Even though it is almost always a Batman theme, the focus should be on duality

Batman-Bruce
Harvey-Two Face
Ventriloquist-Scarface

I would much rather put in Scarface than Catwoman in the 3rd one because he is a sufficiently minor character that he could be shown and not expand it so that it suffers from the common "two many enemies" problem superhero movies usually have.... could write it something along the lines of that Arnold Wesker was the psychotic leader of one of the mob gangs that Dent was poised to take down before he was scarred. Due to Wesker's pyschosis, he thinks and acts as though a dummy he calls scarface is the real boss of the operation.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

I think you're all wrong and Nolan is wrong. He's severely limiting the scope of the trilogy and his options in the 3rdfilm by categorically denying the inclusion of Robin. Especially because TDK already deals with "Robin" in a very big way.

We know Batman has started something he cannot end; a legion of freaks will rise up to meet his challenge. Being a smart and determined man Bruce would naturally realise that his next phase in the mission should be RECRUITMENT. It's an ideological battle now. The 3rd film should be about moving beyond *one* man and creating a legacy that will serve gotham for decades to come. As the film opens Bruce has been activily scouting for allies...and in a stroke of cruel fate, a circus boy in the 'Wayne Special Scolarship Program" loses his parents at a tender age. This is the kind of tragedy that could turn a boy into another Two-Face or Joker. Furthermore, this orphan is violent, trained and naturally gifted; the fates have aligned! He'll be the first 'test' of Batmans next phase. The catch? He's also a friggin carny.
.

****in' wow......I almost WANT Robin to appear now. It could totally work aswell.

 

[last_life]

I think you're all wrong and Nolan is wrong. He's severely limiting the scope of the trilogy and his options in the 3rdfilm by categorically denying the inclusion of Robin. Especially because TDK already deals with "Robin" in a very big way.

We know Batman has started something he cannot end; a legion of freaks will rise up to meet his challenge. Being a smart and determined man Bruce would naturally realise that his next phase in the mission should be RECRUITMENT. It's an ideological battle now. The 3rd film should be about moving beyond *one* man and creating a legacy that will serve gotham for decades to come. As the film opens Bruce has been activily scouting for allies...and in a stroke of cruel fate, a circus boy in the 'Wayne Special Scolarship Program" loses his parents at a tender age. This is the kind of tragedy that could turn a boy into another Two-Face or Joker. Furthermore, this orphan is violent, trained and naturally gifted; the fates have aligned! He'll be the first 'test' of Batmans next phase. The catch? He's also a friggin carny.

Another challenge is represented by Catwoman; will she be another dillemma for Batman or is she in fact a blessing in disguise? End the film with Dick Grayson in his shiney new costume standing beside Batman and joined by Catwoman and Jim Gordon, as they survey a city none of them would have recognised only a few years before.

The batman-vigilantes in TDK set the stage perfectly for this theme for in movie three. Basically, the theme is 'the future'.

Problem with all of this...TOO FAST!

This is what Nolan is getting at.

Year One is all about Batman. The earliest recruitment can be forced is Year Four.

I think that is the idea. The "first" trilogy is just Batman, the second will be about Robin.

We cannot rush into these things. After all, we have all these amazing villains such a Two-Face to deal with and to have Batman truly haunted. I think after the third movie, he would then ask for help.

It would be the most REALISTIC way to do it.

 

[jmc]

It's a little predictable, but the theme would probably be redemption as others have said, Dent will redeem himself in someway, if Catwoman is added she'll do the same, I think also another theme could be closure, it wouldn't surprise me if Nolan were to end with Bruce finally bringing order and hanging up the cape and cowl, maybe even have Catwoman quit crime.

 

[Closerframe]

So...

Batman Begins: Fear
The Dark Knight: Escalation
Batman III: Redemption

Sounds about right

 

[Man Who Laughed]

The first act of the movie should portray Bruce in all of his loneliness. He's just lost a good friend to the freaks. Rachel won't have anything to do with him, or is dead. Batman is slowly realizing that he's one man fighting an uphill battle, in a never-ending war. He wants to give up, but knows that he can't.

Until Alfred reminds him, "Why do we fall?" Bruce realizes that this isn't the first time he's felt alone. His parent's murder. He decides that Batman is a loner.

Act two, after a brutal beating at the hands of Two-Face, Bruce starts to think that Harvey is lost. He cannot be redeemed. Batman wonders if maybe he's gone too far himself. Will he be able to save himself?

Act three, while still coming to grips with the fact that he may be becoming what he's trying to fight, Batman sees in a young Dick Grayson the very same kid he once was. Alone. Scared. Guilty. Angry. So instead of redeeming himself, he tries to help Dick by adopting him, and teaching him tactics to deal with all those bottled up feelings. He does this while attempting to hide his identity as Batman, fearing that if Dick finds out, he'll reveal the secret, or worse, want to be just like Batman.

Dick eventually finds out about Bruce's identity, and naturally wants to help. Batman says no, Dick runs away. Batman realizes he pushed Dick away, and must find him. After finding Dick and realizing that his help may be needed to make progress in the uphill battle, he recruits a sidekick, but not without warning that once you put on that mask and start fighting, you're in for life.

So we have loneliness, redemption, recruitment, curse.

What you think?