Apocalypse These Timelines Are So Confusing. Continuity Errors.

[ApophènX]

Looks like the main storyline in the movie negates the intended symbolism in the metaphor

Looks like the all movie is a retale of X2 and you didn't catch that

 

[Kanon]

Looks like the all movie is a retale of X2 and you didn't catch that

I did catch that the whole plot of the movie (DoFP) is travelling back in time and changing the future, so I don't think "you cant completely change the future" is in any way a valid interpretation of the theme of the movie.

 

[ApophènX]

I did catch that the whole plot of the movie (DoFP) is travelling back in time and changing the future, so I don't think "you cant completely change the future" is in any way a valid interpretation of the theme of the movie.

Look at it this way:

DoFP beggin like X1, exact same shot in the future.

In X2 we had: Magneto kept in a prison, Mystique as a spy who seduce a man to get information, Trask who want to destroy Putant using their power against them much like Stryker (in Trask office their is even a picture of him helping a girl in a weelchair referencing Jason, Stryker's mutant son). In the end Magneto use the technology to harl mutant against man. Logan is on an operation table and stab a woman.

All of this happen in DoFP as well. There is even Mzgneto playing with the metal balls like in X2.

The ending is the same: logan/jean drowning then an hint for a resurection to come. Meaning that future is never really set but will repeat itself non the less, only differently. Tou can change the wave but not the stream.

Tey apllied this formula and way of thinking in the film: Stryker eyes glowing like Mystique, as well as in the form.

 

[Kanon]

Look at it this way:

DoFP beggin like X1, exact same shot in the future.

In X2 we had: Magneto kept in a prison, Mystique as a spy who seduce a man to get information, Trask who want to destroy Putant using their power against them much like Stryker (in Trask office their is even a picture of him helping a girl in a weelchair referencing Jason, Stryker's mutant son). In the end Magneto use the technology to harl mutant against man. Logan is on an operation table and stab a woman.

All of this happen in DoFP as well. There is even Mzgneto playing with the metal balls like in X2.

The ending is the same: logan/jean drowning then an hint for a resurection to come. Meaning that future is never really set but will repeat itself non the less, only differently. Tou can change the wave but not the stream.

Tey apllied this formula and way of thinking in the film: Stryker eyes glowing like Mystique, as well as in the form.

That's parallelisms in narrative, is a tool of the narrator, far different that saying that the theme of the movie is "you cant completely change the future" to explain how Wolverine is doomed to become Weapon X (and even if so, he should be weapon X before the events in DoFP, to succesfully mimic the previous weapon X and X2 events: that change in order goes against the whole theory since it's based in the parallelism in the succession/order of events)

 

[Havok83]

I refuse to believe the point of the movie about traveling back in time and succesfully changing the future is "you cant completely change the future". That's exactly what happened in DoFP! they completely changed the future, from a post apocalyptic wasteland where the few remaining mutants are hunted to a thriving (maybe utopical) mutant community in Xavier's school.

Then go rewatch the film. Xavier literally says this in dialogue. Not everything can be completely changed.

 

[ApophènX]

That's parallelisms in narrative, is a tool of the narrator, far different that saying that the theme of the movie is "you cant completely change the future" to explain how Wolverine is doomed to become Weapon X (and even if so, he should be weapon X before the events in DoFP, to succesfully mimic the previous weapon X and X2 events: that change in order goes against the whole theory since it's based in the parallelism in the succession/order of events)

Even in the begging of XMA he tell something similar to his student going in circle with his chair. Meaning everything repeats, time is a cycle not a straight forward line.

It is a tool for narrative they used ina clear purpose, that is what make the movie great. They fused the inside and the outside.

 

[Longshot777]

Actually he does and you don't

X2 and DoFP ends the same, soleone drowning and resurect.

XMA begin with someone getting healing powers and being burried. You see the pattern?

Yeah I see the pattern. But that's not my gripe.

My gripe was having Stryker be Mystique at the end.

It would have been BETTER and cleaner if that was the REAL Stryker who fished Wolverine out at the end.

And I know they said you can't absolutely change time. So at the end Wolverine ended up with Stryker all along.

That Mystique part was pointless.

 

[ApophènX]

That Mystique part was pointless.

If it was just Stryker it would only mean history repeat itself for Logan. The add of Mystique showed it more tricky. But i see where you comin from, i think both view are corect in this case. They left room for the imagination and the interpretation. Now that Apocalypse is out you can ask yourself what happen in those 10 years, even if you have the global picture. Without having seen Apocalypse it was just wondering and many possibility.

 

[Legion]

I refuse to believe the point of the movie about traveling back in time and succesfully changing the future is "you cant completely change the future". That's exactly what happened in DoFP! they completely changed the future, from a post apocalyptic wasteland where the few remaining mutants are hunted to a thriving (maybe utopical) mutant community in Xavier's school.

This. The quote about the river was in regards to Raven and whether she can change. Was she always meant to kill Trask and become evil? Raven proved that theory wrong. She spared Trask. The future is radically changed as a result. Raven returns in Apocalypse as a hero again.

Logan was saved by Mystique disguised as Stryker at the end of the film. This suggests along with the closing monologue that things will be different for Logan. Apocalypse throws that out the window. Now you can say that Logan was always meant to get adamantium but it didn't have to be through Stryker again and it didn't need to involve the X-kids again like in Origins.

 

[X-Maniac]

This. The quote about the river was in regards to Raven and whether she can change. Was she always meant to kill Trask and become evil? Raven proved that theory wrong. She spared Trask. The future is radically changed as a result. Raven returns in Apocalypse as a hero again.

Logan was saved by Mystique disguised as Stryker at the end of the film. This suggests along with the closing monologue that things will be different for Logan. Apocalypse throws that out the window. Now you can say that Logan was always meant to get adamantium but it didn't have to be through Stryker again and it didn't need to involve the X-kids again like in Origins.

I always imagined that end scene meant that history would happen differently, even though Hank postulated that the overall general flow would not change.

Then Kinberg said it was purely meant to signify that Mystique continued her work in saving mutants.

I think what they should have done is shown Wolverine and Archangel getting adamantium augmentation from Apocalypse in place of Stryker. And have Mystique working for Apocalypse (as we saw in the 90s animated series) and also Stryker being mind-controlled by Apocalypse to do his dirty work.

 

[Kanon]

I always imagined that end scene meant that history would happen differently, even though Hank postulated that the overall general flow would not change.

Then Kinberg said it was purely meant to signify that Mystique continued her work in saving mutants.

I think what they should have done is shown Wolverine and Archangel getting adamantium augmentation from Apocalypse in place of Stryker. And have Mystique working for Apocalypse (as we saw in the 90s animated series) and also Stryker being mind-controlled by Apocalypse to do his dirty work.

It would have been cool if Apocalypse was behind Weapon X all along (as I read was inteded at one point in the comics, being the unknow character on the phone with the professor)

 

[Havok83]

I always imagined that end scene meant that history would happen differently, even though Hank postulated that the overall general flow would not change.

Then Kinberg said it was purely meant to signify that Mystique continued her work in saving mutants.

I think what they should have done is shown Wolverine and Archangel getting adamantium augmentation from Apocalypse in place of Stryker. And have Mystique working for Apocalypse (as we saw in the 90s animated series) and also Stryker being mind-controlled by Apocalypse to do his dirty work.

It would have been cool if Apocalypse was behind Weapon X all along (as I read was inteded at one point in the comics, being the unknow character on the phone with the professor)

love it or hate it, Mytsique is a hero. It doesnt fit the narrative to have her working for Apocalypse, at least not where they left her off in DOFP. If Apocaylpse is involved, Stryker and Weapon X is redundant. I dont see why Apocalypse would waste his time with a puny human when he could just augment Wolverine and Angel, himself.

 

[Kanon]

ove it or hate it, Mytsique is a hero. It doesnt fit the narrative to have her working for Apocalypse, at least not where they left her off in DOFP. If Apocaylpse is involved, Stryker and Weapon X is redundant. I dont see why Apocalypse would waste his time with a puny human when he could just augment Wolverine and Angel, himself.

For the most part I agree, but Apocalypse could still use other, depending on circunstances (if he were physically unable, weakened). He is known to have associates, and I would have preferred if the transformation method were something like the surgical procedures of Weapon X than Apocalypse giving his horsemen part of his "cosmic power"

 

[X-Maniac]

love it or hate it, Mytsique is a hero. It doesnt fit the narrative to have her working for Apocalypse, at least not where they left her off in DOFP. If Apocaylpse is involved, Stryker and Weapon X is redundant. I dont see why Apocalypse would waste his time with a puny human when he could just augment Wolverine and Angel, himself.

Well, where they left her in DoFP was as someone who had thought twice about shooting Trask but who was still operating as some sort of vigilante rescuing mutants such as Wolverine.

It could have led into her working for Apocalypse, perhaps he would promise her he would rescue all mutants from human cruelty/persecution.

It need not necessarily involve Stryker except Apocalypse would need access to adamantium and I'd prefer the augmentation done by a horrible scientific procedure rather than by Apoc's magic fingers (as he did with Angel).

But I agree that the powers-that-be clearly want her to be a hero, which means they would never have wanted her working for Apocalypse.

 

[henzINNIT]

this was mentioned before but you missed the point of that. A theme mentioned in DOFP is that you cant completely change the future as time has a way of correct itself and setting things back on their natural path.

This wasn't a theme, this was a theory put forward by Hank in a moment of doubt, and thoroughly disproven by the events of the film istelf. Mystique's eyes appearing at the end of DOFP cemented the idea that everything has changed. It was even confirmed to be a last minute change designed specifically to do that.

I can't believe Singer & Co. so carelessly undercut it, and it is embarrassing watching Kinberg try to explain it away. A single line of dialogue could have covered it, but as it is... well it just feels like they figured no-one would notice. It's beyond frustrating. This franchise has had an awful track record for continuity that DOFP managed to sweep away, and with a fresh slate it only took about an hour to ruin it again.

 

[Havok83]

This wasn't a theme, this was a theory put forward by Hank in a moment of doubt, and thoroughly disproven by the events of the film istelf. Mystique's eyes appearing at the end of DOFP cemented the idea that everything has changed. It was even confirmed to be a last minute change designed specifically to do that.

I can't believe Singer & Co. so carelessly undercut it, and it is embarrassing watching Kinberg try to explain it away. A single line of dialogue could have covered it, but as it is... well it just feels like they figured no-one would notice. It's beyond frustrating. This franchise has had an awful track record for continuity that DOFP managed to sweep away, and with a fresh slate it only took about an hour to ruin it again.

Is it so hard to believe though? They've been doing this with so many things in this franchise. Thats pretty minor compared to some of the bigger goofs that got blatantly ignored

 

[henzINNIT]

Is it so hard to believe though? They've been doing this with so many things in this franchise. Thats pretty minor compared to some of the bigger goofs that got blatantly ignored

It is quite surprising tbh. Singer has predominately disregarded the films he wasn't involved with. I would not have expected him to do something so contrary to the film he made, especially when he'd literally just finished it.

 

[GuestStar2004]

It is quite surprising tbh. Singer has predominately disregarded the films he wasn't involved with. I would not have expected him to do something so contrary to the film he made, especially when he'd literally just finished it.

what about toad in DOFP? He was hardly X1 toad, and I ain't even gonna mention the whole nightcrawler thing or not having Charles and Eric meet at 17 like he originally wrote and he admitted to being the one who changed that for FC

Anyway the DOFP ending its not a continuity error, we can't say it obvious meant anything when no one knew what it meant.

 

[henzINNIT]

what about toad in DOFP? He was hardly X1 toad, and I ain't even gonna mention the whole nightcrawler thing or not having Charles and Eric meet at 17 like he originally wrote and he admitted to being the one who changed that for FC

Anyway the DOFP ending its not a continuity error, we can't say it obvious meant anything when no one knew what it meant.

None of those are as significant as this, in my opinion.


(though I like to pretend Toad's appearance in DOFP is due to achne, just because that would be funny)

 

[Knight_SV]

Well, where they left her in DoFP was as someone who had thought twice about shooting Trask but who was still operating as some sort of vigilante rescuing mutants such as Wolverine.

It could have led into her working for Apocalypse, perhaps he would promise her he would rescue all mutants from human cruelty/persecution.

It need not necessarily involve Stryker except Apocalypse would need access to adamantium and I'd prefer the augmentation done by a horrible scientific procedure rather than by Apoc's magic fingers (as he did with Angel).

But I agree that the powers-that-be clearly want her to be a hero, which means they would never have wanted her working for Apocalypse.

That's what i thought and arguing against mystique's defender on her thread. Maybe that was the original plan back in 2014 to make mystique serve apocalypse and offer him wolverine as a part of the horsemen with apocalypse promises deliberation of all mutants from persecution.
I'm also think alongside above, they also planned to involve tatum's gambit here and also introducing him initially as a part of horsemen

 

[Havok83]

That's what i thought and arguing against mystique's defender on her thread. Maybe that was the original plan back in 2014 to make mystique serve apocalypse and offer him wolverine as a part of the horsemen with apocalypse promises deliberation of all mutants from persecution.
I'm also think alongside above, they also planned to involve tatum's gambit here and also introducing him initially as a part of horsemen

that would be a real bad idea as that would limit his potential in the universe. Whenever he does debut, it should be closer to present day

 

[Knight_SV]

there is a rumor back in 2014 and 2015 that fox would introduce gambit in XMA first before his solo movie in late 2016 which didn't happen. even his debuting as an horsemen, they could give him character arc unlike angel and psylocke. And perhaps Tatum's Gambit could replace Magneto in the roster with Mags having the current mystique's role in the movie instead of the family murdered subplot. Storm would be introduced as a regular recruit like what supposed to be. The horsemen roster should be Archangel, Gambit, Psylocke and Wolverine and all of them should brainwashed instead of serving apocalypse willingly like mystique

 

[GuestStar2004]

Well there was no rumour exactly that gambit was gonna be in apocalypse, it was bryan who said he wanted to use gambit and nightcrawler for apocalypse, but i guess he didn't, maybe because of the solo in the works.

Best guess he may have ended up as a horseman

 

[Knight_SV]

that's what i thought. singer wants to use gambit and wolverine as a horsemen but disallowed because of their solo flicks respectively.

 

[JoeyConQueso]

At this point, I'll just enjoy it the same way I was able to enjoy actual Marvel comics for decades: it's all floating timelines and some people will be more affected by time than others.