World Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

[BigThor]

Are you serious? Clearly the military helped Superman in his fight against Namek and Faora, I agree that it would've ended similarly to Thor vs Kurse. Also Kurse and Thor's fight was obviously much shorter than Supes vs the kryptonians. I'm sure if they intended for that scene to be longer Thor would've eventually recovered, clearly he didn't have enough time before Loki intervened. Yes you can save Loki saved Thor just like the military saved Supes, but they had no control over those situations so it shouldn't be held against them.

How in the hell was Thor on the defensive against Hulk when he "punched him", "uppercut with Mjolnir", and that "flying knee" before Thor choked him. Hulk didn't slam Thor around like a rag doll, he slammed him.once and threw him wowww big woo, oh and Superman dodged jet fire during the smallville fight so Thor dodging jet fire is a moot point.

 

[Batmannerism]

Are you serious? Clearly the military helped Superman in his fight against Namek and Faora, I agree that it would've ended similarly to Thor vs Kurse. Also Kurse and Thor's fight was obviously much shorter than Supes vs the kryptonians. I'm sure if they intended for that scene to be longer Thor would've eventually recovered, clearly he didn't have enough time before Loki intervened. Yes you can save Loki saved Thor just like the military saved Supes, but they had no control over those situations so it shouldn't be held against them.

How in the hell was Thor on the defensive against Hulk when he "punched him", "uppercut with Mjolnir", and that "flying knee" before Thor choked him. Hulk didn't slam Thor around like a rag doll, he slammed him.once and threw him wowww big woo, oh and Superman dodged jet fire during the smallville fight so Thor dodging jet fire is a moot point.

Sigh. Interestingly when people give evidence in court, no two people see the same thing - I know this from experience.

Not being a Superman fan you may not have seen MOS that many times, but anyway, you might recall "Engage all targets" "What about the guy in blue ?"
"Engage all targets" before the military open fire on Superman as well, so saying they helped him doesn't seem quite right. IN fact, cannon fire from the helicopter bounces off his head - not very helpful there. It's hard to allege the military saved Superman, as they were shooting at him too. When he fights Nam Ek one on one, they are both in a hail of bullets.

Now, come on. You're saying that in respect of Thor v Kurse

I'm sure if they intended for that scene to be longer Thor would've eventually recovered, clearly he didn't have enough time before Loki intervened

Dude there's a fine line between extrapolating facts from evidence (like Thor's lightning taking out those whales, while I disagree on whether it's as powerful as heat vision, I have to agree that it certainly appeared very powerful and would probably hurt Superman)....and on the other hand, just making stuff up.

I think you are dangerously close to crossing that line, if you are starting to second guess what the filmmakers intended, and again, if that were true, Loki wouldn't need to step in, which made his "sacrifice " unnecessary.


Did you watch how the Thor vs Hulk fight ends? As the jet pulls up and the guy raises his visor, the Hulk slams Thor to the floor, cut to inside the helicarier where he's holding Thor in one hand and chucks him across the room. Thor looks a bit groggy there, and then he wisely ducks and covers from the cannon fire.

Sadly, I feel we have reached probably the limit of our debate. However, you must be praised for your valiant efforts in defence of the Thunder God. Go back to Asgard and have a beer with the warriors three, if you feel like you made your point, then you can consider that a victory.

Best of luck to you. I look forward to Thor's next film appearance.

 

[BigThor]

Sigh. Interestingly when people give evidence in court, no two people see the same thing - I know this from experience.

Not being a Superman fan you may not have seen MOS that many times, but anyway, you might recall "Engage all targets" "What about the guy in blue ?"
"Engage all targets" before the military open fire on Superman as well, so saying they helped him doesn't seem quite right. IN fact, cannon fire from the helicopter bounces off his head - not very helpful there. It's hard to allege the military saved Superman, as they were shooting at him too. When he fights Nam Ek one on one, they are both in a hail of bullets.

Now, come on. You're saying that in respect of Thor v Kurse



Dude there's a fine line between extrapolating facts from evidence (like Thor's lightning taking out those whales, while I disagree on whether it's as powerful as heat vision, I have to agree that it certainly appeared very powerful and would probably hurt Superman)....and on the other hand, just making stuff up.

I think you are dangerously close to crossing that line, if you are starting to second guess what the filmmakers intended, and again, if that were true, Loki wouldn't need to step in, which made his "sacrifice " unnecessary.


Did you watch how the Thor vs Hulk fight ends? As the jet pulls up and the guy raises his visor, the Hulk slams Thor to the floor, cut to inside the helicarier where he's holding Thor in one hand and chucks him across the room. Thor looks a bit groggy there, and then he wisely ducks and covers from the cannon fire.

Sadly, I feel we have reached probably the limit of our debate. However, you must be praised for your valiant efforts in defence of the Thunder God. Go back to Asgard and have a beer with the warriors three, if you feel like you made your point, then you can consider that a victory

I said they "helped" I didn't say they intended to help, we all know how things would've been grim for ol Clark without military intervention. Yes the military shot as Supes but a bulk of the attention was on the other kryptonians, even divertd their attention from Supes to take on the army. Now it's a fact that military helped Supes more than hurt in that scenario and that is indisputable.

Saying Thor was groggy after being slammed by Hulk left him groggy is making things up, he got right up and dodged those bullets. Then he ran to Loki's prison cell without stumbling or any other sign of being dazed. Thor landed more blows than Hulk landed, blocked his attacks, and dodged most of then. When Hulk manage to land the only punch he hit Thor with it was a snapshot while Thor was trying to reason with him. Point bank Thor looked damn good against Hulk and it was judged as a pro fight Thor would be ahead on the scoreboards. Don'tlet Hulk's little comeback before the jet came cloud your judgement of the entire fight as a whole

 

[ciscostudent561]

A couple of points

Spoiler

A) Why does everyone keep forgetting that Thor clearly held back against Hulk? Remember when he had Hulk in a headlock and was saying something to the affect of "Banner Relax We are your friends"? He went nowhere near full force against the Hulk and still outclassed him while fighting him. Plus Thor was trying to contain hulk not destroy him. They were in a packed ship!!

B) The WHOLE ENTIRE SCENE WHERE THOR GETS STABBED AND MADE INVULNERABLE BY LOKI WAS A VISION!! Did everyone forget Avengers where Thor got stabbed by Loki but then immediatley gets up and slams dude on his face?

And yes Kurse was pounding Thor in. But Thor has tanked a ton of hits. In fact as soon as gets owned by Loki Thor gets up and RUNS full speed to Loki's body. Whether it was a set up or not, Thor was clearly A)not knocked out b) or even heavily phased. He fights Malekith to the death 15 minutes later. A Malekith powered by AETHER!! Oh and Kurse was unstoppable. He was powered by an INFINITY GEM. Guy was like the juggernaut on steroids with powers to melt people on top of that

Thor Vs Superman is alot closer then ya making it out to be. I still gotta side with the Mjolnir weilder. Sure Superman can speed blitz, but Thor has all the reaction ability to negate that advantage. Remember Thor blocking the laser beams by the Chitauri that move at about bullet speed? I'm with Thor all the way. GO THOR GO.

 

[hellinas]

What class was movie thor's strength?

 

[metaphysician]

I'd say a little less than Hulk. I suspect in raw muscle power, the two are equal, Hulk is just about four times bigger.

 

[Azrael24]

I said they "helped" I didn't say they intended to help, we all know how things would've been grim for ol Clark without military intervention. Yes the military shot as Supes but a bulk of the attention was on the other kryptonians, even divertd their attention from Supes to take on the army. Now it's a fact that military helped Supes more than hurt in that scenario and that is indisputable.

Saying Thor was groggy after being slammed by Hulk left him groggy is making things up, he got right up and dodged those bullets. Then he ran to Loki's prison cell without stumbling or any other sign of being dazed. Thor landed more blows than Hulk landed, blocked his attacks, and dodged most of then. When Hulk manage to land the only punch he hit Thor with it was a snapshot while Thor was trying to reason with him. Point bank Thor looked damn good against Hulk and it was judged as a pro fight Thor would be ahead on the scoreboards. Don'tlet Hulk's little comeback before the jet came cloud your judgement of the entire fight as a whole

I'll give Thor this, he can fight and he can take a punch. Absolutely. But...I'm sorry...he's getting the business handed to him by Superman from MOS. Yes the military helped Superman...actually no. They didn't. All they did was run into the black zero, they had ZERO effect on the Kryptonians.

Thor fought to a standstill against Iron Man in avengers....you really think Iron Man could stand agains the Man of Steel...not even close. His hammer? Thor came down on Caps shield with it and it just reverberated it back..yes I know the properties of the shield. I promise you, Superman would have broken it.

In the comics, this is a more even match, but let's be clear...in the movies..Thor isn't as ruthless, powerful, or 'warrior like' to me. MOS all day.

 

[Azrael24]

Are you serious? Clearly the military helped Superman in his fight against Namek and Faora, I agree that it would've ended similarly to Thor vs Kurse. Also Kurse and Thor's fight was obviously much shorter than Supes vs the kryptonians. I'm sure if they intended for that scene to be longer Thor would've eventually recovered, clearly he didn't have enough time before Loki intervened. Yes you can save Loki saved Thor just like the military saved Supes, but they had no control over those situations so it shouldn't be held against them.

How in the hell was Thor on the defensive against Hulk when he "punched him", "uppercut with Mjolnir", and that "flying knee" before Thor choked him. Hulk didn't slam Thor around like a rag doll, he slammed him.once and threw him wowww big woo, oh and Superman dodged jet fire during the smallville fight so Thor dodging jet fire is a moot point.

Do tell how the military helped Superman? They did nothing but slam into the black zero. During all the fights, the military got laid out. LOL! Superman was saving them left and right..go rewatch the Smallville fight..all they did was provide a temporary distraction at best.

Think about the power Superman displayed. He slammed into Zod and the shockwaves caused building to partially crumble. Thor is strong, but he doesn't have Superman's speed. And that makes a HUGE difference. Power is strength x speed. Would you rather get hit by a powerlifter or a running back? Trust me, you'd rather get hit by the powerlifter.

 

[RoryTate]

The two movies are in completely different universes and a comparison is basically impossible. An important note though: In MOS, the speed of the Kryptonians isn't as great as many people think it is. In fact, it's definitely way less than the speed of sound, due to the fact that no glass breaks in the Smallville buildings only a few metres away from them when they move at their fastest. Furthermore, there isn't even a concussive wave heard or felt by their movement (all I heard was a punching sound at the end?), and it's clear they aren't teleporting, so they must be moving only at a fast car speed, unless all of the laws of physics are suddenly non-existent (I wouldn't even worry about this normally, but the MOS movie goes to extreme lengths to try and convince the viewer it's being realistic, especially with the casualty toll in the final battle). None of the few people who survived in Smallville or Metropolis had shattered eardrums, IIRC. That level of speed is nothing spectacular, and it wouldn't decide any battle on its own.

By contrast, the MCU doesn't get so caught up in faux realism (thankfully), it just tones down a few of the powers when it needs to, while still making the heroes and villains something to be reckoned with, yet satisfyingly "super" enough to cheer for them. There are some inconsistencies introduced, but I find them relatively easy to stomach.

So which world/universe are the two fighting in? Once Superman...oops, er, Man of Steel is in the MCU, all bets are off. And if Thor is in a DC movie, all bets are off.

In the end, it's all up to the writers, as I understood clearly way back when I saw a rogue Wasp take on all of the Avengers successfully (Hulk included). Whatever the story needs, that is what will happen.

 

[hellinas]

While i agree that mos superman is faster, those who claim that movie thor moves at human speed are completely wrong, because we know that power=speed x strength so it would not be feasible for him to hit with so much power (car hit in avengers) but with human speed. Also when he tackles hulk in the hellicarrier he is seen as a blur,which shows it's superhuman speed.

 

[Batmannerism]

The two movies are in completely different universes and a comparison is basically impossible. An important note though: In MOS, the speed of the Kryptonians isn't as great as many people think it is. In fact, it's definitely way less than the speed of sound, due to the fact that no glass breaks in the Smallville buildings only a few metres away from them when they move at their fastest. Furthermore, there isn't even a concussive wave heard or felt by their movement (all I heard was a punching sound at the end?), and it's clear they aren't teleporting, so they must be moving only at a fast car speed, unless all of the laws of physics are suddenly non-existent (I wouldn't even worry about this normally, but the MOS movie goes to extreme lengths to try and convince the viewer it's being realistic, especially with the casualty toll in the final battle). None of the few people who survived in Smallville or Metropolis had shattered eardrums, IIRC. That level of speed is nothing spectacular, and it wouldn't decide any battle on its own.

By contrast, the MCU doesn't get so caught up in faux realism (thankfully), it just tones down a few of the powers when it needs to, while still making the heroes and villains something to be reckoned with, yet satisfyingly "super" enough to cheer for them. There are some inconsistencies introduced, but I find them relatively easy to stomach.

So which world/universe are the two fighting in? Once Superman...oops, er, Man of Steel is in the MCU, all bets are off. And if Thor is in a DC movie, all bets are off.

In the end, it's all up to the writers, as I understood clearly way back when I saw a rogue Wasp take on all of the Avengers successfully (Hulk included). Whatever the story needs, that is what will happen.

I totally agree on your last point. Depending on who's writing the story determines the winners, which is why Batman has beaten up Superman, and Robin saved his ass once, and then at other times, Supes has kicked the crap out of Darkseid, by himself.

I agree with your points on speed, and physics, sort of

Physics remains intact in MOS. For Superman to reach India and then return to Metropolis in the time he did, he's probably flying over 25,000 kph possibly faster (just on very rough calculations, that's Kansas to India, about 8000 miles, so 12,000 km) . This is significantly faster than the speed of sound. However, he does this in space, where there's no air resistance, and also, Superman creates a sonic boom when he takes off, which is why he tells Lois to stand back "maybe a little more"

This is because objects can break the sound barrier without creating enormous pressure waves or deafening sound.....a loud noise yes, but not necessarily the effects you describe.

check this out:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1930/is-the-sound-of-a-snapping-towel-a-sonic-boom


Doing the maths, given the distances we see the Kryptonians use super speed at, you are correct they probably aren't moving at supersonic speed in Smallville.


E.g to catch the falling pilot, Supes moves about 100m (or yards if you prefer) in about 1 second (consider if you watch in slow-mo, he does a mid-air somersault to neutralize the Pilot's falling momentum).
So, probably about 360 km/h.

or if you discount flying speed, Faora travels at least 20 meters in less than a second (in 3 successive bursts of speed when fighting the soldiers)
this works out to less than super-sonic speed, but is still probably over 300kph.

However, this is still a significant speed advantage. Given that Marvel Thor doesn't display anything like that. (in fact in TDW he has to jog to attack Malekith at the end).

as you say though, it is in the hands of the writers ( Supes has beaten Thor before in comics, but somehow was seriously threatened by Venom, which to my mind is plain dumb). Cheers.

 

[Batmannerism]

While i agree that mos superman is faster, those who claim that movie thor moves at human speed are completely wrong, because we know that power=speed x strength so it would not be feasible for him to hit with so much power (car hit in avengers) but with human speed. Also when he tackles hulk in the hellicarrier he is seen as a blur,which shows it's superhuman speed.

Dude, no disrespect, but I disagree with your point.

Thor has immense superhuman strength, so flipping those cars would be pretty easy. He is strong enough to hold his own against the Hulk who can flip tanks pretty easily. So this is not a speed issue, Thor CAN hit with that kind of power, because despite not having tremendous speed, he possess unearthly strength.

Second, Thor does not possess superhuman speed. At the end of TDW he has to jog to reach Malekith. He can fly fast with Mjolnir, but that's the extent of his super speed. In terms of reflexes he's probably faster than a human, and he's an experienced and highly trained warrior, but watch the Smallville fight in MOS, and if you still think Thor would have even close to Kryptonian speed, I question your objectivity.

There are plenty of advantages that Thor has (skills, lightning, experience, aggression, cunning) but speed isn't one of them.


BTW, as the OP, I have never said Thor couldn't beat Superman, but that given their movie versions, the most likely outcome would be Superman taking down Thor. A lot of it would depend on the circumstances.
(and as the last poster mentioned, it would really depend on the writers).

It would be a tough and brutal fight, but until Thor can get hit by a train, thrown from half a mile away by someone as strong as he is, and walk away without a scratch, I'm not convinced he could overcome Superman in the end (which is pretty much how it plays out in JL/Avengers cross-over).

So, while I disagree, thanks for putting your ideas out there.

 

[kalhawj]

MOS Superman wins hands down... Movie Thor can barely do anything without his hammer and couldn't even defeat two villain (Thor the Dark World) and needed help from others. Superman who is by far way faster than Thor, stronger, and his full potential has yet to peek in MOS trilogy easily take this version of Thor.

 

[Batmannerism]

MOS Superman wins hands down... Movie Thor can barely do anything without his hammer and couldn't even defeat two villain (Thor the Dark World) and needed help from others. Superman who is by far way faster than Thor, stronger, and his full potential has yet to peek in MOS trilogy easily take this version of Thor.

To be honest, while I agree with you about Clark not hitting his peak yet,
and he appears to get more powerful as the movie goes on, I still think Thor would be a very tough fight.

While I think super-speed would be one of the deciding factors, Thor is the better fighter, hands down, whereas Clark has to think about it before using his powers ( he actually watched the pilot fall for a second before flying out to catch him). So that would give Thor an edge.

What I think would be the biggest equalizer is aggression. Thor is going to hit first, because Supes isn't a naturally aggressive guy, unless you attack his mom, if Thor attacked Clark's mom, then it's a different story altogether. But usually, Thor would get in some good hits with mjolnir, although if Hulk can catch it in flight, Supes can too, as he's a lot faster than the Hulk.

I can see Thor getting in lightning strikes, and some really good shots with Mjolnir before Supes gets pissed off, and starts using his powers at their potential or if he can keep Thor from using Mjolnir, because without it
he has to use the subway (btw, that's how Kurse beat up Thor, by keeping mjolnir away from him, we never see Kurse take a full on blow from the Hammer, in Thor's hand, which to me suggests that it might have been powerful enough to take him down).

Maybe if Thor got supes with a surprise attack, then he'd come out on top, but otherwise......

I suppose a lot of this is based on Thor getting hit by Kurse, and Kurse chucking a boulder at him, and keeping him down -whereas Supes fights two beings of similar power, and struggles (although arguably doing better than Thor did against Kurse, sorry Thor fans, but I've seen TDW twice, and Kurse gives Thor a hammering), but as soon as its one-on-one Supes is on much more even terms, and of course, he gets hit with a train, and has not a hair out of place.

As far as Thor v Iron Man goes, I think Thor was holding back. If that fight had continued much longer, he'd have put more than a few dents in the golden Avenger. On that note, given how well Killian and the extremis soldiers do against Iron Man's army of suits in IM 3, I can't see Superman having much of a problem with him.

On a different note, I quite liked that Thor needed help to beat Malekith, because that's the thing about Thor, he rarely fights alone, he has allies.
And to be fair, Malekith was about to unleash a power great enough to
extinguish all light in the 9 realms.

Superman is a different story, he's very much a solo act for most of his adventures, except when he's hanging with the JL.

I really enjoyed TDW ( it was a reasonably close second to MOS), and still don't understand all the Thor fans who didn't like it. Personally, I always found Thor the most boring character in the Thor comics, and the movies have made him a bit more likeable, particularly in TDW.

Now if Supes had to fight Thor and Loki together or Thor and Hulk (the movie versions), he might be in serious trouble.

 

[kalhawj]

To be honest, while I agree with you about Clark not hitting his peak yet,
and he appears to get more powerful as the movie goes on, I still think Thor would be a very tough fight.

While I think super-speed would be one of the deciding factors, Thor is the better fighter, hands down, whereas Clark has to think about it before using his powers ( he actually watched the pilot fall for a second before flying out to catch him). So that would give Thor an edge.

What I think would be the biggest equalizer is aggression. Thor is going to hit first, because Supes isn't a naturally aggressive guy, unless you attack his mom, if Thor attacked Clark's mom, then it's a different story altogether. But usually, Thor would get in some good hits with mjolnir, although if Hulk can catch it in flight, Supes can too, as he's a lot faster than the Hulk.

I can see Thor getting in lightning strikes, and some really good shots with Mjolnir before Supes gets pissed off, and starts using his powers at their potential or if he can keep Thor from using Mjolnir, because without it
he has to use the subway (btw, that's how Kurse beat up Thor, by keeping mjolnir away from him, we never see Kurse take a full on blow from the Hammer, in Thor's hand, which to me suggests that it might have been powerful enough to take him down).

Maybe if Thor got supes with a surprise attack, then he'd come out on top, but otherwise......

I suppose a lot of this is based on Thor getting hit by Kurse, and Kurse chucking a boulder at him, and keeping him down -whereas Supes fights two beings of similar power, and struggles (although arguably doing better than Thor did against Kurse, sorry Thor fans, but I've seen TDW twice, and Kurse gives Thor a hammering), but as soon as its one-on-one Supes is on much more even terms, and of course, he gets hit with a train, and has not a hair out of place.

As far as Thor v Iron Man goes, I think Thor was holding back. If that fight had continued much longer, he'd have put more than a few dents in the golden Avenger. On that note, given how well Killian and the extremis soldiers do against Iron Man's army of suits in IM 3, I can't see Superman having much of a problem with him.

On a different note, I quite liked that Thor needed help to beat Malekith, because that's the thing about Thor, he rarely fights alone, he has allies.
And to be fair, Malekith was about to unleash a power great enough to
extinguish all light in the 9 realms.

Superman is a different story, he's very much a solo act for most of his adventures, except when he's hanging with the JL.

I really enjoyed TDW ( it was a reasonably close second to MOS), and still don't understand all the Thor fans who didn't like it. Personally, I always found Thor the most boring character in the Thor comics, and the movies have made him a bit more likeable, particularly in TDW.

Now if Supes had to fight Thor and Loki together or Thor and Hulk (the movie versions), he might be in serious trouble.

I haven't mention this but knowing how good hearted Superman is he will be worthy to hold Mjölnir without any issue. If this happen Thor is done... he will not be able to win. Even Kurse prevent Thor for using his hammer and got own and perhaps killed if Loki wasn't there to save him. Superman took on three Kyptonian and didn't once bleed. I'm sure we will see Sup bleed when he faces the likes of Doomsday in one of the sequel.

Also, Superman's strength hasn't peek yet and just from MOS he is already shown stronger and can take punches and hits from beings equal to strength. IMO movie Thor so far has not shown me that he can take on Superman. Maybe Hulk has a chance to give sup a run for his money but even Hulk will lose to Superman as he learns to use his full power. For all we seen Superman may only be using 40-50% for his full strength.