Tilda Swinton Cast as The Ancient One

[4thWallBreaker]

I kind of doubt he's going to actually be a good guy. He's just not going to be a mustache-twirling villain, either.

Well, in Strange lore, Mordo is very Sinestro. In that he goes rotten later. Though it's kind of there already, you get a sense that they both really tried with their convictions, but then were led astray.

 

[Pokkle]

Just like the Ancient One will be leading a mystical Eastern land, yet be played by a European white woman? Is that not having those Asian roots being pushed throughout the movie but being played by a white person ala Aloha?


Where did I mention I didn't want the main characters to be diversified? Outside of Iron Fist (who I feel I should be white due to his relationship with Luke Cage and how the white/black dynamic does indeed add sub-context), I couldn't care less. I was even on board with the Pedro Pascal for Dr. Strange back when that was a thing AND continue to champion diverse castings for characters whose race plays no part in their character.

And is it not hypocritical for you to want diversity, yet turn away when there is a casting that is less diverse AND is actual whitewashing?

What is funny, is that they changed the Ancient One to avoid stereotype.

I think if you look at some of the early incarnations of the Ancient One in the comics, they are what we would consider today to be quite, sort of, stereotypical. They don’t hold up to what would work today. Also, within the storyline of the comics, and our movie

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/30/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-ancient-one

Marvel can never win, people will always complain.

"Wise asian mystic, marvel you are so racist"
"Whitewashing and blackwashing my asian characters, you are so racist"

Poor asian, every role possible can be categorized as racist tropes by some people.

 

[4thWallBreaker]

What is funny, is that they changed the Ancient One to avoid stereotype.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/30/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-ancient-one

Marvel can never win, people will always complain.

"Wise asian mystic, marvel you are so racist"
"Whitewashing and blackwashing my asian characters, you are so racist"

Poor asian, every role possible can be categorized as racist tropes by some people.

Yeah, I've noticed that problem with Asian characters in Marvel. They could modernize it and make it proper still. In the movies, you know?

But yea, Mandarin and Ancient One. They're both kind of painful. Mandarin definitely a Fu Manchu thing going on. Fanged in certain drawings. Hard to look at without cringing.

 

[Xeno]

Yeah, I've noticed that problem with Asian characters in Marvel. They could modernize it and make it proper still. In the movies, you know?

But yea, Mandarin and Ancient One. They're both kind of painful. Mandarin definitely a Fu Manchu thing going on. Fanged in certain drawings. Hard to look at without cringing.

This is a valid point. When Shane Black said he wasn't using the Mandarin in IM3 due to the stereotyping issue, some fans were outraged. People pointed out that the problematical aspects of the character could be eliminated. But when Black did alter the Mandarin to dump his objectionable traits, a vocal contingent of fans were furious. A lot of them would definitely have preferred the yellow-skinned, robe-wearing old man with rings on his taloned hands to (Asian) Trevor Slattery fronting for a fire-breathing (Caucasian) supervillain. Because authenticity, of course.

Personally, I remain appalled at the casting of Swinton as TAO because I thought that Marvel could easily have modernized the character. TAO could have been a younger Asian man or woman, since s/he is ageless. Perhaps Marvel was burned by the Mandarin controversy and simply decided to avoid the issue altogether. I wish that they hadn't because more diversity should always be the goal, especially where a character was a member of an underrepresented group to begin with.

 

[fixxxer]

I'm not sure why an old, wise Asian mentor would be perceived as "racist" or "troubling" in the first place if characterized properly. Not every wise, old Asian mystic needs to be Pai Mei for Odin's sake. Personally, I would've just cast an older Asian actor as TAO and focused on not characterizing TAO in a stereotypical manner.

That said, I'm wiling to wait and see what Swinton brings to the table since she is among the better actors out there.

 

[BoredGuy]

I think they changed him up so it wasn't another "White man does everything better than the foreigners who have practiced this since birth" situation

this way everything is more multi-racial, and when it came down to who stays kinda stereotypical, Wong is much more important to be source accurate than the Ancient One, since there are actually people who give a crap about Wong.

 

[Pokkle]

If being the villain, the mentor, the funny sidekick, the tech guy, the silencious badass is considered racist, no surprise asian don't get role because you remove 3/4 of the possible role for (bad) PC reasons.

I'm not sure why an old, wise Asian mentor would be perceived as "racist" or "troubling" in the first place if characterized properly. Not every wise, old Asian mystic needs to be Pai Mei for Odin's sake. Personally, I would've just cast an older Asian actor as TAO and focused on not characterizing TAO in a stereotypical manner.

Clearly.

Tilda Swinton will probably be good anyways.

 

[Guard82]

If being the villain, the mentor, the funny sidekick, the tech guy, the silencious badass is considered racist, no surprise asian don't get role because you remove 3/4 of the possible role for (bad) PC reasons.

True. While stereotyping is harmful, unreasonable political correctness is bad too, and it can really limit the roles available to actors of Asian descent. There needs to be a middle ground between stereotyping and PC.

That said, I think Tilda will be great in her role.

 

[BarryAllen]

What is funny, is that they changed the Ancient One to avoid stereotype.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/30/doctor-strange-tilda-swinton-ancient-one

I would've believed that and did prior to the announcement of Benedict Wong as Wong. You can't say you were going for "avoiding stereotypes", then go ahead and cast as Asian manservant, which is very much a stereotype itself.

And the support for Swinton as TAO makes no sense, seeing that if Marvel can write Wong so he can be a modernized, non-offensive character for this era, why can't they do the same for an Asian Ancient One?

 

[Pokkle]

I would've believed that and did prior to the announcement of Benedict Wong as Wong. You can't say you were going for "avoiding stereotypes", then go ahead and cast as Asian manservant, which is very much a stereotype itself.

Everything is a trope anyways.
With this logic, asian couldn't get a single role.

 

[Taarna]

It would be super cool if Doctor Strange initially had some reservations about being trained by a woman ( remember he's an arrogant surgeon upon first meeting ) , and at the end of the film just before the credits Strange see's the ancient one morphed back to an older Asian man with a wink and a nod. Lesson learned. Character preserved!

 

[BarryAllen]

Everything is a trope anyways.
With this logic, asian couldn't get a single role.

You can still have an Asian Ancient One and have it well-written so it avoids pitfalls of falling into stereotypes. See Luke Cage now vs how he was written in the 70s.

 

[Silvermoth]

I've got to be honest, I liked the trailer and tilda Swinton but I think they could have done something more with her look. They really did get a white woman to play what's clearly an Asian role. It's as random as seeing Jet Li as Abraham Lincoln

 

[Pokkle]

You can still have an Asian Ancient One and have it well-written so it avoids pitfalls of falling into stereotypes. See Luke Cage now vs how he was written in the 70s.

I think the same.

For me, Madame Gao is pretty good in Daredevil but she is still called a Dragon Lady in a negative way by some people.

They change The Ancient One for the same reason, they didn't do a Asian Mandarin.

The Ancien One being asian or white, they will have received criticims both ways.

 

[MichaelChen]

Everything is a trope anyways.

With this logic, asian couldn't get a single role.

Especially in comics, where so many characters are scientists or martial artists or both. Batman would be a walking Asian stereotype if he wasn't white.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Especially in comics, where so many characters are scientists or martial artists or both. Batman would be a walking Asian stereotype if he wasn't white.

Plus he can't seem to land a girlfriend, spends most of his free time working on his car and still lives in his parents' house.

 

[Endeavor]

same reason, they didn't do a Asian Mandarin.

The Ancien One being asian or white, they will have received criticims both ways.

Yup
I think Marvel needs to move away from this kind of thinking.
Give asian actors a chance to shine.
The character falls into some racist tropes? Tweak it. Fix it up.
Giving the role to an actor of another race is not the right solution.

 

[Monochron]

Seeing Tilda Swinton in this trailer makes me think of David Carradine from Kung Fu.

 

[Kane52630]

I just hope this "controversy" leads to Fu Manchu Nic Cage.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yup
I think Marvel needs to move away from this kind of thinking.
Give asian actors a chance to shine.
The character falls into some racist tropes? Tweak it. Fix it up.
Giving the role to an actor of another race is not the right solution.

Agreed. They've made some very odd decisions for a company that clearly wants to crack the Asian market.

Hopefully they do a really good job with Shang chi which I'm honestly looking more forward to that iron fist tbh

 

[eon001]

I'm hoping/assuming that Tilda's Ancient one has many forms and the bald lady in the kung fu outfit is one of many. Because if I'm honest, she looked a bit ridiculous and took me out of a great trailer.

 

[marieylee]

I'm hoping/assuming that Tilda's Ancient one has many forms and the bald lady in the kung fu outfit is one of many. Because if I'm honest, she looked a bit ridiculous and took me out of a great trailer.

Agreed. I was fine with the casting, but I am not with them putting her in a bald cap and making her look like an old asian monk.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yup
I think Marvel needs to move away from this kind of thinking.
Give asian actors a chance to shine.
The character falls into some racist tropes? Tweak it. Fix it up.
Giving the role to an actor of another race is not the right solution.

Yeah, I agree. And I have a hard time believing Marvel is THAT concerned about playing up stereotypes after watching the way they handled The Hand in season 2 of Daredevil. I guess Asian stereotypes are okay if they are applied to villains? Not a good look, Marvel.

 

[Silvermoth]

I wonder what will make them stop? I guess their logic is "oh well people might get pissed for a bit but they'll still pay to see the movie so nbd"?

 

[Silvermoon]

I don't know whether there's any validity at all to this (I haven't really dug into it that much), but I've seen some on other boards speculate (so please, just take it as speculation), that wanting to remain on good business terms with China may have also contributed to the why they cast the Ancient One the way they did. That - given the situation and history between China and Tibet - they may have wanted to avoid having the character come across as a Dalai Lama type of character.

Again... I haven't dug into it/don't know if there's any validity to it. So take it worth a grain of salt (if even that)