To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[ShadowBoxer]

I get the point that you can view homosexuality as wrong and not hate homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

But I don't think that works in practice. There's inevitably going to be a clash. I don't hate you, I just think that the way you are is gonna send you to hell.

It can work. I have two family members who are gay. They are still my family and I love them and have no resentment towards them even if I disagree with their lifestyle. I do in fact hate the sin not the person. At the end of the day, no human can say who is going to heaven or hell. Only God can make that final decision.

 

[Greens]

Who says religious people aren't compassionate or that they aren't capable of logic and reason? Even if they have different opinions doesn't mean that don't have those things. But science has the answer for everything right?

I didn't say that.

Okay if that's the case, tell me why some people I enountered who had serious and sometimes life treating medical issues ( rare cancer etc) are still alive and well despite some of the best doctors in the UNITED STATES basically telling them there was no hope for them to live? To this day those doctors don't have the slightest idea, or logical explanation, or theory on how they are still alive. All they have said is its luck. Really? I thought humans and science were to key to the universe, but there is no explanation besides luck? Okay if you say so.

Medical anomalies are not unheard of. Doctors make predictions to the best of their abilities but they don't control nature. They merely observe and use past experiences and medical knowledge to make a "close call". Luck in this case is basically just probability. Suppose the probability of someone surviving disease X under circumstance Z is so low you might as well call it non-existent. That doesn't mean there's NO way for them to survive, it just means one person out of Y does, Y being an extremely big number.

See how I just used logic and reason to explain what happened? No supernatural explanations required.

 

[PacificBoy]

There are interpretations of the bible which doesn't state homosexuality is a sin. Which works for me. Jesus himself hung out with prostitutes and other sinners. He was pretty cool and non-judgey.

 

[Greens]

As for reason and compassion regarding homosexuality, here is my thought process:

Is homosexuality natural? Yes. It even exists in the animal kingdom.
Okay, but natural doesn't always have to mean that it's good. The behavior of psychopaths is natural and they hurt others.
The next question follows: does homosexuality inspire harm? No, homosexuality in and of itself doesn't harm or inspire to harm others.
Bonus question, just to be sure: Does homosexual behavior affect me negatively in any way, shape or form? No, it really doesn't.

That was easy!

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Why does this thread always end up on the homosexual subject?

 

[Apollo]

ah, cool. and easter is next sunday?

Yep! And then Lent ends the day right before Easter.

Around the World, Christians Mark Palm Sunday- AP the Associated Press


[YT]QptnhDItjdE[/YT]

Published on Mar 29, 2015
Christians around the world are marking Palm Sunday by waving fronds, attending church services and visiting sites in the Holy Land at the start of the Holy Week that ends with Easter. (March 29)

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I didn't say that.



Medical anomalies are not unheard of. Doctors make predictions to the best of their abilities but they don't control nature. They merely observe and use past experiences and medical knowledge to make a "close call". Luck in this case is basically just probability. Suppose the probability of someone surviving disease X under circumstance Z is so low you might as well call it non-existent. That doesn't mean there's NO way for them to survive, it just means one person out of Y does, Y being an extremely big number.

See how I just used logic and reason to explain what happened? No supernatural explanations required.

But still that's just basically you guessing what happened. Why isn't there a real explanation it's been several years now. Like real facts on how these people survived by X reason. Shouldn't we know? Not just some guesses? Maybe they should ask Stephen Hawking maybe he could explain right? So your saying people It's logical to believe in science despite not knowing all there is to know about it, but it's not logical to believe that their might be a higher power out there? Okay

 

[ShadowBoxer]

There are interpretations of the bible which doesn't state homosexuality is a sin. Which works for me. Jesus himself hung out with prostitutes and other sinners. He was pretty cool and non-judgey.

Yes, Jesus did hang out with sinners but he did not condone their sin. He was trying to reach out to them/ minister to them.

 

[Snow Queen]

As for reason and compassion regarding homosexuality, here is my thought process:

Is homosexuality natural? Yes. It even exists in the animal kingdom.
Okay, but natural doesn't always have to mean that it's good. The behavior of psychopaths is natural and they hurt others.
The next question follows: does homosexuality inspire harm? No, homosexuality in and of itself doesn't harm or inspire to harm others.
Bonus question, just to be sure: Does homosexual behavior affect me negatively in any way, shape or form? No, it really doesn't.

That was easy!

 

[PacificBoy]

Yes, Jesus did hang out with sinners but he did not condone their sin. He was trying to reach out to them/ minister to them.

Neither would he condemn them. He wouldn't turn anyone away. So if Jesus doesn't, why should we?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Yep! And then Lent ends the day right before Easter.

Around the World, Christians Mark Palm Sunday- AP the Associated Press


[YT]QptnhDItjdE[/YT]

Published on Mar 29, 2015
Christians around the world are marking Palm Sunday by waving fronds, attending church services and visiting sites in the Holy Land at the start of the Holy Week that ends with Easter. (March 29)

Did you do a fast or anything Apollo?

 

[Apollo]

Did you do a fast or anything Apollo?

Yes I've been keeping mostly a fish, egg and veggie diet. So I am not eating meat like chicken or beef. Last year I did a vegan diet, which was rather difficult. When I did that it seemed like the days went by slower or something. But this time it is a lot easier. I don't even miss poultry or the red meat all that much since fish and eggs are my favorite sources of protein.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

But still that's just basically you guessing what happened. Why isn't there a real explanation it's been several years now. Like real facts on how these people survived by X reason. Shouldn't we know? Not just some guesses? Maybe they should ask Stephen Hawking maybe he could explain right? So your saying people It's logical to believe in science despite not knowing all there is to know about it, but it's not logical to believe that their might be a higher power out there? Okay

Here is something that will come in handy for your life:

Correlation is not causation.

You can't claim that just because "science" (as you claim) hasn't figured something out that it must be Jesus. There are all sorts of determining factors and variables to take into account regarding human physiology that can lead to different outcomes than what a doctor predicts. Diagnosing and giving a determination to life expectancy is not an exact science. At best, the practice is done to help the ill prepare for the worst. A doctor can't tell a patient, "Well it looks like you have 6 months to live but this other patient had the same diagnosis and he prayed to Jesus and has been kicking for another 4 years!" That would be cruel to the patient.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Yes I've been keeping mostly a fish, egg and veggie diet. So I am not eating meat like chicken or beef. Last year I did a vegan diet, which was rather difficult. When I did that it seemed like the days went by slower or something. But this time it is a lot easier. I don't even miss poultry or the red meat all that much since fish and eggs are my favorite sources of protein.

My church has been on a 21 day fast from March 13- April 2nd. I been doing one meal a day, no sweets such as candy, cakes, ice cream, no coffee, and no social media such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. It's been kinda rough but so worth it!

 

[Apollo]

My church has been on a 21 day fast from March 13- April 2nd. I been doing one meal a day, no sweets such as candy, cakes, ice cream, no coffee, and no social media such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. It's been kinda rough but so worth it!

When I first started I used to just do 30 days. Then I went and did the 46 days since I counted the Sundays also. I never actually followed the Catholic way of doing it. Because I liked the idea of not stopping until it was over.

When you do the fast do you count the Sundays too? Cause I know the Catholic Church doesn't, that is why it is 40 days and not 46.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Here is something that will come in handy for your life:

Correlation is not causation.

You can't claim that just because "science" (as you claim) hasn't figured something out that it must be Jesus. There are all sorts of determining factors and variables to take into account regarding human physiology that can lead to different outcomes than what a doctor predicts. Diagnosing and giving a determination to life expectancy is not an exact science. At best, the practice is done to help the ill prepare for the worst. A doctor can't tell a patient, "Well it looks like you have 6 months to live but this other patient had the same diagnosis and he prayed to Jesus and has been kicking for another 4 years!" That would be cruel to the patient.

And non religious people can't claim that people who have had "supernatural" experiences such as being healed or going to heaven and coming back and giving and decriptions and such just imagined it based of some theory. You can't say for sure that person didn't really go to heaven or not. The truth is neither side can shell out facts that they belief is 100% correct. It just comes down to personal opinions and beliefs. If Atheist could prove for a fact that God doesn't exist, and Heaven and hell aren't real, I am sure they would have done so by now. It's all personal beliefs.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

When I first started I used to just do 30 days. Then I went and did the 46 days since I counted the Sundays also. I never actually followed the Catholic way of doing it. Because I liked the idea of not stopping until it was over.

When you do the fast do you count the Sundays too? Cause I know the Catholic Church doesn't, that is why it is 40 days and not 46.

Well the church I attend is non denominational. I can't speak for everyone but I know I have been counting Sunday's as well.

 

[Apollo]

And the no sweets is a good idea too. I tried to do it, but that is hard for me.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

And non religious people can't claim that people who have had "supernatural" experiences such as some going to heaven and coming back and giving and decriptions and such just imagined it based of some theory. You can't say for sure that person didn't really go to heaven or not. The truth is neither side can shell out facts that they belief is 100% correct. It just comes down to personal opinions and beliefs. If Atheist could prove for a fact that God doesn't exist, and Heaven and hell aren't real, I am sure they would have done so by now. It's all personal beliefs.

Well it's a known fact that the "tunnel of light" people see is the optic nerve shutting down. As for seeing dead relatives and stuff like that it's synapses in the brain firing off lucid memories. Most people that claim they "died" and saw this that or whatever only "die" for a few minutes and that is not enough time for the brain to truly "die". There are also people like that kid who claimed to go to heaven and speak with God who then later admit they made it all up and got tons of money from books and appearances.

I consider myself a Christian as well but I'm not going to let my beliefs affect reality and the fact that inevitably, until we die, nobody knows for sure what really happens

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I consider myself a Christian as well but I'm not going to let my beliefs affect reality and the fact that inevitably, until we die, nobody knows for sure what really happens

True. That's basically what I am saying. Non religious people sometimes act as though science has disproved God, heaven and Hell. You may have strong opinions but no one can say for sure either way. So no one's belief can be considered to be 100% fact or truth.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Neither would he condemn them. He wouldn't turn anyone away. So if Jesus doesn't, why should we?

We shouldn't. Which is why businesses turning away gays irritates me. It gives the impression that Christianity as a whole is intolerant, when stuff like that is the exact opposite of what Jesus would have wanted.

True. That's basically what I am saying. Non religious people sometimes act as though science has disproved God, heaven and Hell. You may have strong opinions but no one can say for sure either way. So no one's belief can be considered to be 100% fact or truth.

Exactly. Science can show that their are natural explanations, but it can't, by its own nature, disprove a supernatural explanation.

 

[Apollo]

Well the church I attend is non denominational. I can't speak for everyone but I know I have been counting Sunday's as well.

Yeah my Church is non dominational as well. Not everyone does the fasting. A lot are very old.

 

[Greens]

And non religious people can't claim that people who have had "supernatural" experiences such as being healed or going to heaven and coming back and giving and decriptions and such just imagined it based of some theory. You can't say for sure that person didn't really go to heaven or not. The truth is neither side can shell out facts that they belief is 100% correct. It just comes down to personal opinions and beliefs. If Atheist could prove for a fact that God doesn't exist, and Heaven and hell aren't real, I am sure they would have done so by now. It's all personal beliefs.

Agreed, we can't know for sure, but seeing as these experiences defy the laws of physics and can not be reproduced, most scientists lean toward hallucinations. What is more likely, that what you experienced was a figment of your imagination (like dreams. some dreams seem so realistic that you're startled when you wake up) or that you actually went OUT OF YOUR BODY, UP to heaven, met the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE and came back? Subscribing to the latter idea is a leap thrice the size of the Grand Canyon.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Yeah my Church is non dominational as well. Not everyone does the fasting. A lot are very old.

I like to say it's mixed at my church but there are a lot of younger people like middle and high school age through like mid 30's. There ais a good amount of older people as well, but my church kinda has the rep of being a young people's church lol.

 

[Human Torch]

Keep preaching it, Shadow Boxer!

I'm not here to debate,but to throw my two cents out on the "killing Jesus" movie that came out last night. Awful. I saw 10 minutes and could bear no more.