To Believe or Not To Believe? (SHOW RESPECT, OR RISK A BAN) - Part 2

[BatmanVSuperman]

I don't see what's so mean-spirited about Bill Maher's tweet. The fans that mentioned throwing rocks were probably sarcastically referencing the practice of stoning, something that used to be and still is popular in some religions.

In the end, Blake Griffin's belief that the Earth is 6,000 years old is pretty stupid. He's almost inviting people to mock him.

Anyone who believes the earth is 6,000 years old, lives in complete fantasy/stupidity.

http://www.livescience.com/41191-ancient-microbe-fossils-found.html

3.5 billion year old fossil...which means at least a 3.5 billion year old ecosystem.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Well there shouldn't be a shield around anyone else's beliefs or lack of thereof or how they choose to live their life, but there seems to be one. Just because you don't agree with someone's religious beliefs or lifestyle should be a pass to make mockery of them. You probably wouldn't take to kindly to people mocking atheist on TV and media on the regular right? Or if someone says their an atheist and gets labeled as a arrogant know it all, who has nothing to live for wouldn't you be kinda offended? That's kinda how a feel when people assume, I am stupid or a hateful person because of my religious beliefs. Now I don't mind playful joking but their is a line between just joking and mockery. YOu know there would be backlash over stuff mocking Muslims, Buddhist, Scientology, or if you live an alternative lifestyle. See the irony there?

Actually in the case of scientology the beliefs and acts are no crazier than that of Christian history, yet those who practice it are mocked mercilessly by CHRISTIANS as much as anyone.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

The idea that the Earth is only 6,000 years old is quite possibly the dumbest argument anyone can make.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Or they time he said religious people, christians in particular, had a mental disability. Really?????? That's a pretty intolerant thing to say.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Or they time he said religious people, christians in particular, had a mental disability. Really?????? That's a pretty intolerant thing to say.

He goes far with satirical and sarcastic humor. Remember there is a political comedic element to his entertainment. I mean he is known for being politically incorrect after all.

I'm not claiming that everyone who is super religious is an idiot. However there is a notable statistical trend that is interesting. There are statistical studies demonstrating that more education= less religious ideological individuals.

In America those who claim a personal God to whom they pray and believe intervenes in their life:

Religious people= 90%
Religious educated people= 60%
Religious scientists= 40%
Religious elite scientists= 7%

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The earth is at least 3 and a half billion years old...

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Or they time he said religious people, christians in particular, had a mental disability. Really?????? That's a pretty intolerant thing to say.

It's not intolerant at all, speaking as a person that is both a Christian and a person that suffers from schizophrenia.

It's actually a very solid argument. People in ancient times had no clue about mental illness. Various people throughout the Bible claim to have heard God or seen things that are miraculous. I postulate that a lot of that was due to mental illness. If someone now claims to be talking to God or angels than that person is given medication. If you did that in ancient times people revered you and thought you were special. Symptoms of schizophrenia include hearing and or seeing things that are not there. Who is to say that isn't the actual way that God communicates with people? These very small percentages of people with special brain chemistry have a connection that even to this day is not fully understood and nowadays we just right them off as crazy.

 

[Apollo]

I missed it on Sunday But I learned that Killing Jesus will repeat tomorrow for Good Friday and Easter Sunday on Fox News. Nat Geo will repeat it on April 10th.

‘Killing Jesus’ breaks rating record with 3.7 million viewers for NatGeo

"Killing Jesus" nabbed 3.7 million viewers across Sunday night — the biggest audience in National Geographic Channel history. The channel also noted the 8 PM premiere’s 1.0 rating in the adults 25-54 demo is the highest rating for that demo since the net’s November 2013 premiere of "Killing Kennedy," which clocked a 1.1, and 300% higher than NatGeo’s Sunday 8-11 PM average this calendar year.

The film also premiered last night on Nat Geo MUNDO in the U.S., and will air globally in 171 countries. And, Fox News Channel will repeat "Killing Jesus" this Friday at 8 PM ET/PT and on Easter Sunday at 8 PM ET/PT.

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...atgeo-ratings-record-with-37-million-viewers/

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Absolutely, in ancient times there would be more mental illness due to supernatural beliefs which were created in place of science.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

He goes far with satirical and sarcastic humor. Remember there is a political comedic element to his entertainment. I mean he is known for being politically incorrect after all.

I'm not claiming that everyone who is super religious is an idiot. However there is a notable statistical trend that is interesting. There are statistical studies demonstrating that more education= less religious ideological individuals.

In America those who claim a personal God to whom they pray and believe intervenes in their life:

Religious people= 90%
Religious educated people= 60%
Religious scientists= 40%
Religious elite scientists= 7%

Okay. So it's okay to make such a claim of someone posts some stats even if they aren't credible or not? If a popular pastor tweeted something like non religious people are immoral and have a chemical imbalance in their brains, and posts some stats which may or may not be credible, it would be fine? I think not. That pastor would get blasted for posting something like that as non religious people would get offended and claim "christians are idiots etc".

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Okay. So it's okay to make such a claim of someone posts some stats even if they aren't credible or not? If a popular pastor tweeted something like non religious people are immoral and have a chemical imbalance in their brains, and posts some stats which may or may not be credible, it would be fine? I think not. That pastor would get blasted for posting something like that as non religious people would get offended and claim "christians are idiots etc".

I'm just recounting stats that Neil DeGrasse Tyson (famous African-American astrophysicist) has pointed to. No offense meant, but I felt it was interesting data.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

“Once upon a time, people identified the god Neptune as the source of storms at sea. Today we call these storms hurricanes…. The only people who still call hurricanes acts of God are the people who write insurance forms.”

Neil DeGrasse Tyson

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I missed it on Sunday But I learned that Killing Jesus will repeat tomorrow for Good Friday and Easter Sunday on Fox News. Nat Geo will repeat it on April 10th.

‘Killing Jesus’ breaks rating record with 3.7 million viewers for NatGeo

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...atgeo-ratings-record-with-37-million-viewers/

Need to catch this!

 

[ShadowBoxer]

It's not intolerant at all, speaking as a person that is both a Christian and a person that suffers from schizophrenia.

It's actually a very solid argument. People in ancient times had no clue about mental illness. Various people throughout the Bible claim to have heard God or seen things that are miraculous. I postulate that a lot of that was due to mental illness. If someone now claims to be talking to God or angels than that person is given medication. If you did that in ancient times people revered you and thought you were special. Symptoms of schizophrenia include hearing and or seeing things that are not there. Who is to say that isn't the actual way that God communicates with people? These very small percentages of people with special brain chemistry have a connection that even to this day is not fully understood and nowadays we just right them off as crazy.

So it's okay to say ALL religious people have a mental disablity? I think that's a idiotic thing to say. Like I said, I don't think it would fly over so well if a religious person made such a claim aganist non religious people or people of other faiths or lifestyles.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I think when Maher speaks of history and the supernatural, he is simply reflecting on some of the mentally insane acts of humans that resulted from religious convictions as the root of their logic.

Look at the Salem Witch Trials for example:

Several centuries ago, many practicing Christians, and those of other religions, had a strong belief that the Devil could give certain people known as witches the power to harm others in return for their loyalty. A "witchcraft craze" rippled through Europe from the 1300s to the end of the 1600s. Tens of thousands of supposed witches—mostly women—were executed.

Salem witch trials occurred in colonial Massachusetts between 1692 and 1693. More than 200 people were accused of practicing witchcraft—the Devil's magic—and 20 were executed.

 

[jerkhero]

“Once upon a time, people identified the god Neptune as the source of storms at sea. Today we call these storms hurricanes….

This reminds me why I find the argument "science doesn't know this and that so it must be some kind of creator/higher intelligence" kinda silly(I believe the concept is called 'God of the gaps'). Imagine how many gaps in knowledge humanity had a hundred or couple hundred years ago compared to this day. Ok, we'll probably never know everything, but we really have made some nice progress over the years.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

So it's okay to say ALL religious people have a mental disablity? I think that's a idiotic thing to say. Like I said, I don't think it would fly over so well if a religious person made such a claim aganist non religious people or people of other faiths or lifestyles.

I'm simply saying the probability of people in ancient times who claimed to be in contact with God more than likely suffered from mental illness. Saying all of any people have any type of thing is just stupid

 

[Apollo]

Need to catch this!

It is a lot grittier I think than other types of religious programs like what Human Torch was saying. With the very high viewership I am surprised Nat Geo isn't repeating it any time sooner. I guess they can't change around future programs. I mean I am sure they were shocked it got the most views than any other program in the history of their channel. This will also to lead to more Christian and other religious themed programing down the road.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Religion and Santa Clause...

Many kids in America are brought up to believe Santa is real. Then around an "appropriate" age (maybe 7 or 8 is common?), parents tell them it was just a trick. It was a way to make for better behavior, "If you aren't good you won't get presents."

Interesting with religion, many people are taught a certain religion from when they are born at least until their earliest of teenage years (say 13-14). Most of us can agree as children we felt true belief in such things until a certain age. There was a blind belief.

This tradition as Dawkins and Harris for example have pointed out, results in shaming over bad behavior with threats of hell. If you do good, you go to heaven and bad you get to burn in hell.

Is it a belief or mechanism of control in order to teach good morals and values/apply more purpose for life and hopes of an afterlife?

What if like Santa, people just simply told their children "God is not real. We just used the threats of his discipline, in order to help you grow into better people." ?????

 

[Shikamaru]

Well there shouldn't be a shield around anyone else's beliefs or lack of thereof or how they choose to live their life, but there seems to be one. Just because you don't agree with someone's religious beliefs or lifestyle should be a pass to make mockery of them. You probably wouldn't take to kindly to people mocking atheist on TV and media on the regular right? Or if someone says their an atheist and gets labeled as a arrogant know it all, who has nothing to live for wouldn't you be kinda offended? That's kinda how a feel when people assume, I am stupid or a hateful person because of my religious beliefs. Now I don't mind playful joking but their is a line between just joking and mockery. YOu know there would be backlash over stuff mocking Muslims, Buddhist, Scientology, or if you live an alternative lifestyle. See the irony there?

People should be free to mock whatever belief they want if they think a specific belief. That's the beauty of having freedom of speech. You're free to do the same to us and we're free to do the same to you. We may disagree all we want, but neither of us have the right to tell one another we shouldn't speak our minds. So no, I wouldn't care if someone mocked atheists on TV, especially since most of the people who do it are religious extremists I don't take seriously in the first place. I either laugh or mock/satirize them in return.

Second, if you feel offended people assume you're a hateful person because of your beliefs, you have no one to blame to the Christian Fundamentalists themselves. They're the ones who have completely ruined the religion's image over the years, and it continues every day. There's no denying the US has issues with right wing religious extremism in a way no other industrialized country does. You won't find the same proportion of religious people who reject reason and science anywhere else in the developed world.

Finally, the reason other religions aren't as mocked is because they have less influence over political policies than Christianity does, at least in the West. There's no Muslim equivalent to the Republican Party in the US. And Scientology is practically the bud of everyone's jokes.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I'd like to point out that any comment I've made about scientology is not in support or belief of its practice. It is however a form of hypocrisy from many Christians who state there should be tolerance of their beliefs, but giggle in delight to laugh at scientology as so ridiculous... but Christianity as certain truth. It confounds and simply evades logic to me. So water being turned into wine, a woman turning around and becoming a pillar of salt, a man with strength because of his hair length... oh those beliefs are sound and Tom Cruise is practicing a "crazy religion"

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

This reminds me why I find the argument "science doesn't know this and that so it must be some kind of creator/higher intelligence" kinda silly(I believe the concept is called 'God of the gaps'). Imagine how many gaps in knowledge humanity had a hundred or couple hundred years ago compared to this day. Ok, we'll probably never know everything, but we really have made some nice progress over the years.

Absolutely. In this stage of society, many people still don't get a choice in what they grow up believing. A child is taught a blind faith of one of 40,000 versions of Christianity. He or she grows up believing this specific sect of Christianity is the truest form, and is serving the real God. The interesting part of this modern age is what happens when the child gets older and starts to question what he/she has been taught. Some people stay with this believe, and others feel it was a tradition passed down to them but not of sound reason or logic to continue true faith in it.

 

[Apollo]

What if like Santa, people just simply told their children "God is not real. We just used the threats of his discipline, in order to help you grow into better people." ?????

Parent A: "God is not real" -> the child will either 1. Grow up to not believe in God or 2. Child grows up to believe in God

Parent B "God is Real" -> the child will either 1. Grow up to not believe in God or 2. Child grows up to believe in God

Parent C "I don't know. Make up your own mind" -> the child will either 1. Grow up to not believe in God or 2. Child grows up to believe in God.

Children will eventually learn from other people besides their parents. Then they'll chose what to believe or not to believe.

 

[Apollo]

Absolutely. In this stage of society, many people still don't get a choice in what they grow up believing. A child is taught a blind faith of one of 40,000 versions of Christianity. He or she grows up believing this specific sect of Christianity is the truest form, and is serving the real God. The interesting part of this modern age is what happens when the child gets older and starts to question what he/she has been taught. Some people stay with this believe, and others feel it was a tradition passed down to them but not of sound reason or logic to continue true faith in it.

You have a choice.

 

[\S/JcDc\S/]

How do you have a constructive argument with a less informed blind believer though? A theologian can make an interesting argument. Those that just believe for comfort are kind of scary though.

blind believer --> My faith in God carries me through. Science can't provide evidence there is no God.

someone questioning belief --> There is no evidence of God either. Science has at least developed our knowledge through the years. The Earth is no longer flat and you won't fall off of the end.

blind believer --> Nah, science still can't tell us how we got here. It had to be God.

questions belief --> What about natural selection? Evolution?

blind believer --> Fantasy. It was Goooooood. [revolving door]