The Dark Knight To Bleach or Not to Bleach? That is the Question

[Batman>all]

If Nolan says there is no origin why not just make him perma white?

I'll hold out for a surprise twist but I'd prefer perma white and it really doesn't look like we'll get that.

 

[FhFgJg]

I'm starting to wonder if you've ever read many comics. Batman mythology is filled with "ridiculous" but psychologically deep characters, and more importantly, it's not even remotely bound by realism. That's kinda why Batman even exists in the first place.

I'm not doubting the ridiculous nature of the characters from the comics. But what we are talking about is the Joker's look taken from comics onto Nolan's film. Criticizing me by saying I haven't read many comics is really not important to me b/c i have.

I ignored it the first time on purpose. It's clearly a poor delusional excuse to justify the bleached skin.

It's one thing to state that you don't like it. It's another to come up with an incredible stretch to discredit it's presence.

Incredible stretch? This is coming from a guy who just commented on the ridiculous nature of characters? Dude, i'm not trying to be anti Bleach. I'm just giving a point to why i think Nolan was justified in doing what he did.

 

[Crook]

If it was a different look than the comics, i think it could work. But given the world that Nolan has created and built upon, seeing a guy walk around with bleached white skin all over, perfect green hair, and ruby red perfect lips would look nuts. And not explaining it would even be more nuts. People would see all the grounding in reality and then see Joker and think....wait how the? um.....

That's a pretty baseless assumption. A comic book accurate-looking Joker has been presented in live-action...twice. And both times it propelled Joker into mainstream and pop culture consciousness, in 2 different eras. Not once did the audience ever complain about Joker's white skin. It was plain accepted, because people knew that's just how it was.

Unless within the past 20 years, there's been an entire worldwide movement against the merits of bleached skin in a fantasy film, I cannot fathom how you could assume the audience would respond any differently than they did in 1966 and 1989.

 

[Galilee]

I trust Nolan, and won't mind if Joker uses makeup. I would have preferred bleached skin, however, for the frightening aspect of it. What I mean is, think about a person that you are interrogating. Or worse, trying to rehabilitate, and he has that face. You can't wash that face away, he always looks like that. I would probably dread every day I had to see him.

 

[robthorn24]

For me, it's not that big of a deal either way. I think the Joker's characterization will be spot on and that is the main thing to me. We've also got all of the other common traits of the Joker. White face, green hair, red lips, purple jacket...etc. Besides, like others have said, Nolan is going back to the Joker's beginnings from his very first appearance which was in 1940 if I remember correctly. The Joker dressed like a cop in that story and it never explained whether it was flesh-toned makeup or if it was his real skin color. Like people have said before, "he just is." Who's to say that every comic book writer/artist since then hasn't been taking liberties with the character. Maybe THIS is how he was meant to be... Just a though.

 

[CaptainClown]

Who ever else wants to use proper English.

must not have many takers on that.

 

[FhFgJg]

That's a pretty baseless assumption. A comic book accurate-looking Joker has been presented in live-action...twice. And both times it propelled Joker into mainstream and pop culture consciousness, in 2 different eras. Not once did the audience ever complain about Joker's white skin. It was plain accepted, because people knew that's just how it was.

Unless within the past 20 years, there's been an entire worldwide movement against the merits of bleached skin in a fantasy film, I cannot fathom how you could assume the audience would respond any differently than they did in 1966 and 1989.

Tim Burton's take on Batman was very much fantastical. He used the Penguin for goodness sake. He spared no expense in explaining that The Killing Joke inspired his Joker in Batman 89 and showed the origin. And it did work! But Nolan is not Tim Burton, and this batman universe is far different. It relies more on the classical Golden Age detective batman with hints of Year One Batman and other stories. It is grounded in an improbable but still somehow practical world. So comparing these two, is apples and oranges man.

 

[seifergt]

bleach or no bleach, I am hoping the essence of the character is captured. And after seeing some recent pictures, I am becomming more and more convinced.

 

[Crook]

Incredible stretch? This is coming from a guy who just commented on the ridiculous nature of characters? Dude, i'm not trying to be anti Bleach. I'm just giving a point to why i think Nolan was justified in doing what he did.

Except your assessment sounds completely ludicous in the context of the story and character. What in the hell would be the point of painting your body chalk white? I could see painting the face and neck, but your body? It would be mildly possible it it was done to be seen at all times, but more than half of it is going to be under clothing in the first place.

And does it not serve as a humongous clue that the only explanation for Joker's skin, is a chemical accident? That's not even left for interpretation. You really can't see how your explanation sounds like absolute denial of the facts?

 

[deathfromabove]

Yeah, no kidding. Every time I read the word (which I refuse to type) I feel like I've been stabbed in the brain.

Seriously, who ever came up with the word 'permawhite' needs to have a good, long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

im interested to know who coined the phrase...


hmmmmnnn...

 

[StylishHokie21]

If it was a different look than the comics, i think it could work. But given the world that Nolan has created and built upon, seeing a guy walk around with bleached white skin all over, perfect green hair, and ruby red perfect lips would look nuts. And not explaining it would even be more nuts. People would see all the grounding in reality and then see Joker and think....wait how the? um.....

Now if he were bleached in the film and his look wasn't so perfect looking in the comics...that's another thing and that could have worked.

I'm just saying that the comics look of the joker down to absolute perfection couldn't really stand in Nolan's take in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. It worked back in 1989 and there's no reason why it couldn't work in this one. I don't hate the look, but saying the classic look couldn't have worked because it's not realistic is dumb. If people can accept microwave emitters and fear gas then they can accept a man with white skin, red lips and green hair.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. It worked back in 1989 and there's no reason why it couldn't work in this one. I don't hate the look, but saying the classic look couldn't have worked because it's not realistic is dumb. If people can accept microwave emitters and fear gas then they can accept a man with white skin, red lips and green hair.

Yeah, I agree.

Also, even if a more classic-looking Joker showed up in Nolan's Gotham and didn't fit in...isn't that kind of the point of the Joker anyway? Shouldn't he stand out? Shouldn't he be a disruption to the order of things?

 

[FhFgJg]

Except your assessment sounds completely ludicous in the context of the story and character. What in the hell would be the point of painting your body chalk white? I could see painting the face and neck, but your body? It would be mildly possible it it was done to be seen at all times, but more than half of it is going to be under clothing in the first place.

And does it not serve as a humongous clue that the only explanation for Joker's skin, is a chemical accident? That's not even left for interpretation. You really can't see how your explanation sounds like absolute denial of the facts?

It's very exaggerated to say he painted his whole body...yes. But if we are talking fantasy, i mean what is the level something would go to.

Was he probably intended to be bleached early on? Maybe so. And i have no problem with that. But ridiculous claims or not, the bleach theory wasn't officially written in until later.

I made no assumptions that people wouldn't laugh at me saying the joker could paint himself all over. But to what degree a psychopathic clown would go to in order to make himself look different....is totally relative to what you think is extreme.

 

[Crook]

Tim Burton's take on Batman was very much fantastical. He used the Penguin for goodness sake. He spared no expense in explaining that The Killing Joke inspired his Joker in Batman 89 and showed the origin. And it did work! But Nolan is not Tim Burton, and this batman universe is far different. It relies more on the classical Golden Age detective batman with hints of Year One Batman and other stories. It is grounded in an improbable but still somehow practical world. So comparing these two, is apples and oranges man.

I really don't know how many times it is to be said. Skin bleach is very much a real occurence.

In the same vein that there are no actual lightweight fabrics that can electrically stiffen into a glider, there are no microwave emitters, there are no actual hallucinogens that illicit your worst fear...there are also no actual chemicals that simultaneously bleach your skin white, turn your hair green, and your lips red.

We get that.

But all these things are based on a hyper-reality. So yes, permawhite does fit right in line with Nolan's world, because he himself has used aspects of real-world law, and stretched them to a point where it would fit a semi-real/fantasy world.

And you have yet to answer my question of why people would be confused with white skin, when it's been proven twice already, that they can handle it just fine.

 

[JayTee]

Prior to this concept being introduced in this movie, I'd never heard a single person alive say "He'd be scarier if he was just a guy in makeup."

Hollywood brainwashes ya like that.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Yeah, I agree.

Also, even if a more classic-looking Joker showed up in Nolan's Gotham and didn't fit in...isn't that kind of the point of the Joker anyway? Shouldn't he stand out? Shouldn't he be a disruption to the order of things?

Exactly.

 

[Jesster32388]

Yeah, I agree.

Also, even if a more classic-looking Joker showed up in Nolan's Gotham and didn't fit in...isn't that kind of the point of the Joker anyway? Shouldn't he stand out? Shouldn't he be a disruption to the order of things?

Have to agree

 

[Figs]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. It worked back in 1989 and there's no reason why it couldn't work in this one. I don't hate the look, but saying the classic look couldn't have worked because it's not realistic is dumb. If people can accept microwave emitters and fear gas then they can accept a man with white skin, red lips and green hair.

Exactly!

I don't mind that he isn't permawhite even though it definetly would have a been a much welcomed bonus.

Since Nolan said Joker is an absolute(I think that was the right word he used)and isn't going to have an origin it easily could have worked having him permawhite.

It's not that farfetched ideas like that are what turns off the general audience(Batman '89 seemed to do amazing when it came out) it's when you dumb it down and make it too silly/stupid. Just look at Batman & Robin as well as the Fantastic Four series.

They accepted permawhite back in '89 and I'm pretty damn positive they would have accepted it today. They just wouldn't have gotten the origin again, but I bet the majority who had seen Batman '89 a number of times would have put 2 and 2 together with the chemical bath.

 

[DreadPirateJT]

I think that the fact that the Joker wears makeup only adds to the duality and dichotomy between Batman and him. They've always stood as opposites who were similar, with the similarities serving to highlight their differences. Chaos vs Order. And yet, if you take the usually accepted Joker origins, they both had one bad day that affected them forever. Sure, they went in opposite directions, but they share that defining characteristic. Now with Joker wearing makeup you add to their similarity by making it so that both of them have to put on a "mask" to show who they really are. This decision really helps to illustrate the how alike and how different they actually are.

 

[JayTee]

Itt's a common misconception of fanboys to think that the general movie going audience won't accept the bizarre.

 

[FhFgJg]

I really don't know how many times it is to be said. Skin bleach is very much a real occurence.

In the same vein that there are no actual lightweight fabrics that can serve as a glider, there are no microwave emitters, there are also no actual chemicals that simultaneously bleach your skin white, turn your hair green, and your lips red. We get that. But all these things are based on a hyper-reality. So yes, permawhite does fit right in line with Nolan's world, because he himself has used things aspects of real-world objects, and stretched them to a point.

And you have yet to answer my question of why people would be confused with white skin, when it's been proven twice already, that they can handle it just fine.

No such thing as microwave emitters? I can tell you after 2 semesters of Physics that microwave emitters do exist on a small scale. Now i'm not saying there is one built like the one in BB, but they do exist.

And as I said....again.....if he had all white skin the new one, some may accept it. I do believe, however, that many would find it a huge stretch in comparison to the other things Nolan uses. Now if Joker's look was a really blotchy imperfect looking bleach all over it could work. But if you took the way the Joker looks exactly in the comics and put him in Nolan's world....many people would think "ok this just went from being remarkably intense and somewhat grounded to being impossible."

 

[strikerbatman]

i personaly like the new(make up)joker. I think it makes him seemed more deranged

 

[mcallima]

The Joker should be able to walk up to a bunch of first graders, charm them, make them smile, and lead them into a wood chipper. Nolan has removed all nuance from the character.

 

[JayTee]

i personaly like the new(make up)joker. I think it makes him seemed more deranged

Would you have thought that notion on your own just 3 years ago? Or even agreed if someone brought it up as a what if?

 

[Figs]

No such thing as microwave emitters? I can tell you after 2 semesters of Physics that microwave emitters do exist on a small scale. Now i'm not saying there is one built like the one in BB, but they do exist.

And as I said....again.....if he had all white skin the new one, some may accept it. I do believe, however, that many would find it a huge stretch in comparison to the other things Nolan uses. Now if Joker's look was a really blotchy imperfect looking bleach all over it could work. But if you took the way the Joker looks exactly in the comics and put him in Nolan's world....many people would think "ok this just went from being remarkably intense and somewhat grounded to being impossible."

I would only think the general audience would say or think that if we never had Nicholson in Batman '89. That movie was watched by many and for all the GA members that saw that, it showed them how Joker becomes permawhite and as far as I could tell...they accepted it.

Now if that film was never made and this was the first real big movie with Joker, maybe just maybe would they not buy it.