to those who watched it, QUESTIONS,REACTIONS, ETC.(Discussion Thread. Heavy Spoilers)

[crazy sock]

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/50378687/?qo=1895&q=ghost+rider this is another piece of work found on deviant art. read the artist's comment part for this one.

 

[The MaTTMaN]

I saw this movie a couple of weeks back with my friends, i was loving every minute of it until my friend candy started to laugh at some of the dialogue and facial expressions, she then told me it was too corny. As much as i didn't want to believe her it was true, i still enjoyed mainly cause of his bad ass attitude and the bike but that was it.

 

[Carlo Comicus]

I saw Ghost Rider today in Italy, my country. This movie is not only horrible, it's stupid.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

im a fan of the comics and i sure as hell wont defend this movie. i agree that it is undeniably not a good film. i dunno what i find more outrageous, the movie being horribly made or ppl that liked the movie not being able to realize that it was horribly made.

Then if you read the comics you'll know when GR meets someone he is much more powerful than, he finishes them off within seconds, just like in the movie.

 

[DorkyFresh]

and if you know anything about movies....not everything that works in comics works on film. seriously, who wants to see the hero dispatch the bad guys without breaking a sweat? i wouldn't want to see Spider-Man kill Sandman in less than 5 min.

just because it's in the comics doesn't mean it should be in the movies...

 

[Cyrusbales]

Yeah, the villain fights were a downer, especially the water member of the hidden....

which is odd, since the fights in DDC were pretty good really

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

and if you know anything about movies....not everything that works in comics works on film. seriously, who wants to see the hero dispatch the bad guys without breaking a sweat? i wouldn't want to see Spider-Man kill Sandman in less than 5 min.

just because it's in the comics doesn't mean it should be in the movies...

They were henchmen, nothing more, its like Batman taking out Falcone's men in BB, or Spiderman taking out the guys who attack MJ in Spidey 1. Blackheart was the only one who could stand upto GR and he did.

 

[ghosthorse]

You guy never thought about Christine.The car they kills.

 

[Nathan]

They were henchmen, nothing more, its like Batman taking out Falcone's men in BB, or Spiderman taking out the guys who attack MJ in Spidey 1. Blackheart was the only one who could stand upto GR and he did.

Yeah, let's compare demons that are made out of elements to useless, low-life, thugs.

Do I have to mention X1 again? Mystique, Toad and Sabertooth were also nothing more then henchmen, and you didn't see them going down in a minute or begging for mercy.

Hell, Toad was probably more badass than Blackheart and all the hidden combined. He was up against a guy who could shatter mountains with his eyes, a Telekinetic and a woman who could command the weather. And he didn't back down.

 

[crazy sock]

yea, toad actually b****'d cyclops and jean grey n didnt he smack storm around too before she fried him. guy with powers of a frog > guy with wicked eye vision and girl with telekinetic and telepathic powers.

 

[DarkMajin]

Yeah, let's compare demons that are made out of elements to useless, low-life, thugs.

Wouldn't Ghost Rider make short work of low level demons?
It was only against Blackheart himself that GR had troubles...losing the first encounter with him, and having an extended encounter at the end.

Do I have to mention X1 again? Mystique, Toad and Sabertooth were also nothing more then henchmen, and you didn't see them going down in a minute or begging for mercy.

Hell, Toad was probably more badass than Blackheart and all the hidden combined. He was up against a guy who could shatter mountains with his eyes, a Telekinetic and a woman who could command the weather. And he didn't back down.

Mystique and Sabertooth aren't exactly what I consider henchmen...even Toad may not even fall under that header.

The fights with the Hidden were quick...I do not know is the decision for that was budgetary or creative..but even so, they didn't detract from me enjoying the film. The Hidden just struck as henchmen...and henchmen typically can become frightened of the hero once they see what he can do.

Not sure why the scene was taken out where Caretaker tries to fight Blackheart though.

Ah well, in the sequel I'd like to see GR take on Lilith and her brood...should provide lots of fights, even if some of her brood doesn't last long.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah, let's compare demons that are made out of elements to useless, low-life, thugs.

Do I have to mention X1 again? Mystique, Toad and Sabertooth were also nothing more then henchmen, and you didn't see them going down in a minute or begging for mercy.

Hell, Toad was probably more badass than Blackheart and all the hidden combined. He was up against a guy who could shatter mountains with his eyes, a Telekinetic and a woman who could command the weather. And he didn't back down.

GR is just A LOT MORE POWERFUL than the hidden, why cant you realise this, and Toad attacked the X-Men with the element of surprise, taking Cyclops out straight away and the putting Storm far away so he could deal with Jean easily, which he did.

The Hidden had no way of knocking GR out before he could attack them, they tried yes, but they just couldnt do it. GR obviously has a reputation as a tough demon, hence why the Hidden were so shocked when they thought they had taken him out so easily "He aint so tough!" He is literally almost unstoppable, honestly, its like a Terminator going one on one with a human, its just no contest. Surely the fact that Mephisto sent GR after the 3 Hidden AND Blackheart shows he is one tough bastard.

Wouldn't Ghost Rider make short work of low level demons?
It was only against Blackheart himself that GR had troubles...losing the first encounter with him, and having an extended encounter at the end.

Mystique and Sabertooth aren't exactly what I consider henchmen...even Toad may not even fall under that header.

The fights with the Hidden were quick...I do not know is the decision for that was budgetary or creative..but even so, they didn't detract from me enjoying the film. The Hidden just struck as henchmen...and henchmen typically can become frightened of the hero once they see what he can do.

Not sure why the scene was taken out where Caretaker tries to fight Blackheart though.

Ah well, in the sequel I'd like to see GR take on Lilith and her brood...should provide lots of fights, even if some of her brood doesn't last long.

EXACTLY, couldnt have put it better myself.

 

[Cyrusbales]

but GR is only just getting used to his powers, not sayin GR should get beaten or anything, but we should see some logical progression in his mind about how to kill them. And what's the point in pitting them against GR if you get nothing out of it?

Maybe a few punches, then GR laughs it off, maybe take it more like a horror, where GR gets attacked, then gets mad, and drags the hidden out of the frame using his chain, and we just hear screama off-screen and a burst of flames, then GR walks back into shot, with some ash floating in the air....

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

but GR is only just getting used to his powers, not sayin GR should get beaten or anything, but we should see some logical progression in his mind about how to kill them. And what's the point in pitting them against GR if you get nothing out of it?

Maybe a few punches, then GR laughs it off, maybe take it more like a horror, where GR gets attacked, then gets mad, and drags the hidden out of the frame using his chain, and we just hear screama off-screen and a burst of flames, then GR walks back into shot, with some ash floating in the air....

Right, your the 2nd person i have had to explain this to. GR doesnt need to learn how to use his powers, because, the demon that possesses Johnny has known how to use those powers for thousands of years. Gr and Johnny are two seperate entities, GR takes over Johnny's body, so he is not Johnny, though some of Johnny does occasionally come through. Its not like Spiderman or Superman were they are the same person but with powers. Thats how it is in the comics anyway, and it is implied by the Caretaker in the movie also ".......at night, in the presence of evil, The Rider TAKES OVER."

 

[DorkyFresh]

They were henchmen, nothing more, its like Batman taking out Falcone's men in BB, or Spiderman taking out the guys who attack MJ in Spidey 1. Blackheart was the only one who could stand upto GR and he did.

you're not getting my point...

...WHAT WORKS IN COMICS DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK ON FILM!!! why not make those guys more powerful than the regular, disposable henchmen for the sake of making the film more exciting? i wouldn't even call Blackheart's "henchmen" real henchmens because at least Falcone's henchmen and Ra's ninjas contributed to more action than Blackheart's did. it's kinda bad when a movie that tries to be realistic like BB has more action than a movie that tries to be fantastical like GR.

Right, your the 2nd person i have had to explain this to. GR doesnt need to learn how to use his powers, because, the demon that possesses Johnny has known how to use those powers for thousands of years.

the thing is...you shouldn't have to explain it to anyone. the movie should've been able to....and don't tell me that people just didn't "get it" or "read under the lines." this movie was about as deep as the puddle of water left under my car after it drizzled last night.

you can't use comic elements that aren't in the movie to defend the movie because those elements aren't in the movie and the general audience or ANYONE that's not familiar with GR don't know what you know. i'm sure most of the people who saw this movie ended up walking out of the theaters not knowing Johnny was being possessed by the devil and it's the movie's fault for not explaining it that way. it's also the movie's fault for not explaining how GR was able to take out Blackheart's henchmen so easily.

it's obvious you know quite a bit about the comics, but for those of us who don't....GR falls flat on it's face because of the lack of information that was presented to us in the movie. you can't hold us accountable for not knowing EVERYTHING about GR from the comics because we saw the MOVIE and it barely told us anything...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

you're not getting my point...

...WHAT WORKS IN COMICS DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK ON FILM!!! why not make those guys more powerful than the regular, disposable henchmen for the sake of making the film more exciting? i wouldn't even call Blackheart's "henchmen" real henchmens because at least Falcone's henchmen and Ra's ninjas contributed to more action than Blackheart's did. it's kinda bad when a movie that tries to be realistic like BB has more action than a movie that tries to be fantastical like GR.

I get your point completely, but the funny thing is, about half the people on this board would argue against your point, as many think the movies should be exactly like the comics.

Also, i think MSJ did it from a film-making point also, by making GR so tough and hard to beat, it gives people watching the movie a shock when BH beats the crap out of him, twice.

the thing is...you shouldn't have to explain it to anyone. the movie should've been able to....and don't tell me that people just didn't "get it" or "read under the lines." this movie was about as deep as the puddle of water left under my car after it drizzled last night.

you can't use comic elements that aren't in the movie to defend the movie because those elements aren't in the movie and the general audience or ANYONE that's not familiar with GR don't know what you know. i'm sure most of the people who saw this movie ended up walking out of the theaters not knowing Johnny was being possessed by the devil and it's the movie's fault for not explaining it that way. it's also the movie's fault for not explaining how GR was able to take out Blackheart's henchmen so easily.

it's obvious you know quite a bit about the comics, but for those of us who don't....GR falls flat on it's face because of the lack of information that was presented to us in the movie. you can't hold us accountable for not knowing EVERYTHING about GR from the comics because we saw the MOVIE and it barely told us anything...

It is somewhat explained in the movie that they are different, The Caretaker says to Johnny ".....at night, in the presence of evil, the rider takes over."

Also, its pretty obvious that JB is quite a tender and calm person, but GR is a badass, there's a sharp difference between characters there, so it is definately implied in the movie.

 

[DorkyFresh]

I get your point completely, but the funny thing is, about half the people on this board would argue against your point, as many think the movies should be exactly like the comics.

well....half the people on this board AREN'T aguing with me against that point so no, they wouldn't.......otherwise they'd be doing it, but they're not...

...every person with half a brain knows that not everything that's in comics will work on film.

Also, i think MSJ did it from a film-making point also, by making GR so tough and hard to beat, it gives people watching the movie a shock when BH beats the crap out of him, twice.

you and MSJ are probably the only ones who see it that way because the common complaint is not that GR's powers were depicted unfaithfully....it's that the fights between GR and the henchmen were too short and too easy.

It is somewhat explained in the movie that they are different, The Caretaker says to Johnny ".....at night, in the presence of evil, the rider takes over."

*sarcastically* wow........thanx for the elightenment.

that's not an explanation, that's a hint. one sentence that could've been mistaken as a metaphor? that's it?

Also, its pretty obvious that JB is quite a tender and calm person, but GR is a badass, there's a sharp difference between characters there, so it is definately implied in the movie.

oh okay i get it...so since Superman acts drastically different from Clark Kent we should assume that everytime he becomes Superman some ghost or supernatural being takes over him as well?

every superhero acts differently from their secret identity...that doesn't imply that a demon is possessing them.

 

[WarBlade]

I finally got to see Ghost Rider this morning.

As a long time fan of the second series I've been waiting for this for years. The movie? A decent enough try that didn't quite hit the mark for me.

The moment GR opened his mouth to say something I almost wish that he hadn't. Where I had expected something unnatural and rasping impregnated with the violence of an inferno (think Balrog scene, FOTR, with cobblestone grating on stone with sound then dropped in pitch), yet Ghost Rider's speech sounded all too human for my taste. And the stuff that came out... "Uh-uh-u-uuuuh" (waving finger at police officer). Maybe comicbook-GR #1 might have done that, but the movie had already established Ghost Rider as an ages old Hell's bounty hunter rather than an American child or someone trying to be silly. Lines like "You're pissing me off", and calling someone a "Dirt bag" were cringeworthy.

The action was another shortfall IMO. I remember a comicbook where people, anti-heroes and demonic adversaries were often getting into punchups, thrown into walls etc. The movie by contrast had quite a high ratio of throat-grabbing and threats, which while interesting in itself and in keeping with the Ghost Rider second series, didn't offer up much of the same excitement value as a decent room-destroying brawl. I remember the T-800 vs. T-1000 terminator fight when they first brawl in a tight corridor, Hellboy tangling with a regenerating demon in a subway station, Blade and Nomak smashing eachother into support pillars and I think to myself, "Yeah, I'm wondering why I didn't get to see a little more of that!"

Overall I give this movie 2/5. Watchable. Not great.


PS. Open note to those of you who like to trash talk MSJ and call the guy a "hack director" etc: I'd love to see you guys do better at making a movie. What he did was take on a monumental task to put something on the screen for our entertainment, not to mention spent a lot of time on these boards communicating with the fans and yet I see quite a number of people here rewarding his efforts with a collective "You suck!" response. That's not only bad form, it's downright rude. I can only imagine what it must be like to open the pages of the fan base that supported him for so long and see so many contemptuous personal attack comments - I can imagine it would bite pretty hard.

 

[Mr. Socko]

^Nice post. I agree on about all of that. Good way to put things.

 

[crazy sock]

PS. Open note to those of you who like to trash talk MSJ and call the guy a "hack director" etc: I'd love to see you guys do better at making a movie. What he did was take on a monumental task to put something on the screen for our entertainment, not to mention spent a lot of time on these boards communicating with the fans and yet I see quite a number of people here rewarding his efforts with a collective "You suck!" response. That's not only bad form, it's downright rude. I can only imagine what it must be like to open the pages of the fan base that supported him for so long and see so many contemptuous personal attack comments - I can imagine it would bite pretty hard.

well Im relatively new here compared to many of the other GR hypesters, so i never talked to MSJ when he was around here. i was never a fan of his daredevil movie, but i gave him a chance with GR and he failed. it was worse than daredevil. for a guy that was on here so much, talking to the fans, youd think he woulda listend to em better. its not like everyone asked or begged him to take on this "monumental task". I would rather there be No GR movie ever made at all then the crap of a film he created. all its done is make me (and im sure others) sick to their stomachs and also cause such a GR hype that there are all these crap GR comic series being made. like Road to Damnation and the current one. the way they are handling it is as bad as how MSJ handled the movie. having Blaze be the rider again without any explaination, trying to erase the 90s series from anyones memory. its all complete garbage and bull****.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

well....half the people on this board AREN'T aguing with me against that point so no, they wouldn't.......otherwise they'd be doing it, but they're not...

...every person with half a brain knows that not everything that's in comics will work on film.

I know half the people on the board arent arguing with, but if you go onto other threads, BB, Spiderman, X-Men, Superman Returns, there are people who say these movies are not faithful enough to the comics and there are many who think comics should be translated exactly. That doesnt make them stupid, just different from you. However i agree, there should be changes from the comics, but i loved the faithful bits in GR.

you and MSJ are probably the only ones who see it that way because the common complaint is not that GR's powers were depicted unfaithfully....it's that the fights between GR and the henchmen were too short and too easy.

I know what common complaint is, but i disagree with it. Havent you seen my thread were i say i'm glad GR's powers were depicted accurately?

*sarcastically* wow........thanx for the elightenment.

that's not an explanation, that's a hint. one sentence that could've been mistaken as a metaphor? that's it?

IMO there's more than a hint in the movie.

oh okay i get it...so since Superman acts drastically different from Clark Kent we should assume that everytime he becomes Superman some ghost or supernatural being takes over him as well?

every superhero acts differently from their secret identity...that doesn't imply that a demon is possessing them.

Were the **** did you pull this one from? Thats NOT what i said AT ALL. In fact i have said numerous times GR is totally different from the likes of Superman, because even though Supermans, Spiderman, Batman's, etc alter ego's act differently, they are still essentially the same person. This is not the case with GR, when he become's GR, he's not Johnny Blaze. Thats why Johnny doesnt have superpowers when he is just Johnny.