The Flash Tom Cavanaugh IS Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne/Reverse-Flash

[Spider-Fan83]

maybe Well's just had a fake blood sample on file, it's not like Cisco took the blood from Well's himself to test against

he just went with the samples on file

 

[DrCosmic]

You could be right, but I'm not so sure about that for 3 reasons

1) the so-called impenetrable forcefield was set up by......Wells, so all we had was his say-so that it was impenetrable.

2) true, he has time travelled but currently we can assume he can't as his speed is highly unstable and prone to cutting out entirely. He would have had to do some pretty clever arranging to have a future self of his show up for that particular moment.
Until we know more about the mechanics of time travel within the context of the show I don't think this is the best explanation.

3) Actually, given the above two factors and in the promo the fact that we see cisco looking at the force-field set up in which RF is standing, and then the 2 images of Wells suggests to me that the simplest explanation is that it is indeed a hologram (as mentioned by bjavor) or Wells using his own incredible speed.

I'm not saying you're wrong, who knows you might be proven right, but I think the alternative explanation seems simpler. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough.

I can see how those are concerns, but they don't seem so damning because:
1) Cisco set up and monitored the forcefield
2) Think about time travel for a moment. If Wells came back from the future to beat himself up, then it would not take any 'clever arranging' because he remembers the event and time. It wouldn't matter if present Wells had unstable powers, if Future Wells' powers had stabilized, as planned.
3a) Hologram sounds simple, if you're on Star Trek, but it's one of those things that'd be weird if it didn't get used often after that, and be weird that it wasn't used before.
3b) Wells moving really fast sounds silly too, and not just because he's changing clothes in front of everyone. The Flash didn't notice this as he fought Reverse Flash outside while Wells was laying on the ground inside.

Hologram could be done cleverly, and I think they'll make for great red herrings, like the "another speedster" thing Joe and Cisco were on in that same episode before they figured out the Time Travel bit, but overall, I think time Travel would be simplest, and most consistent with the rest of the show.

 

[bjavor]

Wells turned on the Particle accelerator which he knew would explode. The accelerator killed a bunch of innocent people and gave many of the villains (and a couple of the heroes) superpowers to begin with.

Wells may believe what he is doing is for noble reasons but that doesn't change the fact he is directly and indirectly responsible for the death of many people.

OK. That's a fair point. I forgot to take into account the "collateral damage" from the explosion... But I still maintain that simply "wanting to torment Barry" as in the comics does not seem to be his main goal.

 

[Batmannerism]

I can see how those are concerns, but they don't seem so damning because:
1) Cisco set up and monitored the forcefield
2) Think about time travel for a moment. If Wells came back from the future to beat himself up, then it would not take any 'clever arranging' because he remembers the event and time. It wouldn't matter if present Wells had unstable powers, if Future Wells' powers had stabilized, as planned.
3a) Hologram sounds simple, if you're on Star Trek, but it's one of those things that'd be weird if it didn't get used often after that, and be weird that it wasn't used before.
3b) Wells moving really fast sounds silly too, and not just because he's changing clothes in front of everyone. The Flash didn't notice this as he fought Reverse Flash outside while Wells was laying on the ground inside.

Hologram could be done cleverly, and I think they'll make for great red herrings, like the "another speedster" thing Joe and Cisco were on in that same episode before they figured out the Time Travel bit, but overall, I think time Travel would be simplest, and most consistent with the rest of the show.

Dude,

Check out the promo,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeZVgY1dvkU

To me it suggests hologram or use of speed powers, or a combination of both rather than time travel.
(by hologram I mean projected light, so an illusion, not a solid hologram like in Star Trek TNG, just to be clear).

At 0:08 Cisco is looking at the RF standing in the forcefield, to me, this screams hologram, at 0:15 he's looking at the 2 Wells figures vibrating side by side......again, hologram ?

Or if a combination of both... if we link the quick scenes sequentially, Cisco looks at the RF in the forcefield, then we see Caitlin looking at the empty wheelchair/glasses at 0:11. So Wells has used super speed to run to Star Labs, where Cisco has discovered the RF recording, then is showing Cisco how he could appear to be in two places at once.

It's a possibility, and to me gets around the complications from having two versions of the same person exist in the same moment of time.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that to me the hologram/super-speed solution looks a bit simpler.

Anyway, we'll know soon enough, roll on March 17th.

The big question is that once Cisco knows, what will Wells do ?

 

[Loki882]

I swear if this is a fake-out and they DON'T end up discovering Well's "secret" this episode, then I'm going to be REALLY annoyed.

 

[Loki882]

Wells turned on the Particle accelerator which he knew would explode. The accelerator killed a bunch of innocent people and gave many of the villains (and a couple of the heroes) superpowers to begin with.

Wells may believe what he is doing is for noble reasons but that doesn't change the fact he is directly and indirectly responsible for the death of many people.

It's not about him being a "good guy" really. It's just about him potentially having deeper/more complex motivations than merely "I'm a sadistic psychopath who wants to make Barry Allen's life Hell, mwahahaha," like he is in the comics.

 

[DrCosmic]

Dude,

Check out the promo,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeZVgY1dvkU

To me it suggests hologram or use of speed powers, or a combination of both rather than time travel.
(by hologram I mean projected light, so an illusion, not a solid hologram like in Star Trek TNG, just to be clear).

At 0:08 Cisco is looking at the RF standing in the forcefield, to me, this screams hologram, at 0:15 he's looking at the 2 Wells figures vibrating side by side......again, hologram ?

Or if a combination of both... if we link the quick scenes sequentially, Cisco looks at the RF in the forcefield, then we see Caitlin looking at the empty wheelchair/glasses at 0:11. So Wells has used super speed to run to Star Labs, where Cisco has discovered the RF recording, then is showing Cisco how he could appear to be in two places at once.

It's a possibility, and to me gets around the complications from having two versions of the same person exist in the same moment of time.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, just that to me the hologram/super-speed solution looks a bit simpler.

Anyway, we'll know soon enough, roll on March 17th.

The big question is that once Cisco knows, what will Wells do ?

I looked at the promo over and over, then watched The Man In the Yellow Suit. If I never saw the episode, I'd 100% agree based on the promo, but it doesn't make sense if you watch the episode. We don't know holograms are a thing, we know time travel is a thing. We don't know that Cisco is always right, but we do know that Wells constantly lies. We know the show can handle the complications of having two Barrys at once in the same place - at Nora Allen's death. Perhaps you're also hoping that complication will be explained away by holograms/super speed? Chances are you won't know March 17th, just like you didn't know about the two Barry's at the end of The Man In The Yellow Suit, but Cisco came to an partially incorrect conclusion that didn't make sense (there were no speedsters from that time) because he had not considered time travel.

So I've seen the promo two more times now, time for you to go see the episode again, so you can see what I'm talking about.

 

[Golgo-13]

You know what, the more I think about it the more I can see Wells being future Barry. It's the only aspect of his character that seems 'twist' worthy. Gus has said that the season ends on a big twist that nobody has seemed to guess online yet (although he may just be saying that). We all know Wells is RF. Most assume he killed Barry's mother, so there's no twist there. The only thing left that could be shocking..to most....is that either Wells is indeed Barry from some alternate timeline, or that Barry is the one that kills his own mom....

Also isn't plausible that originally Barry went back, saved his mom and just like in Flashpoint, things were so bad he went back again to either kill her, or stop himself......?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I looked at the promo over and over, then watched The Man In the Yellow Suit. If I never saw the episode, I'd 100% agree based on the promo, but it doesn't make sense if you watch the episode. We don't know holograms are a thing, we know time travel is a thing. We don't know that Cisco is always right, but we do know that Wells constantly lies. We know the show can handle the complications of having two Barrys at once in the same place - at Nora Allen's death. Perhaps you're also hoping that complication will be explained away by holograms/super speed? Chances are you won't know March 17th, just like you didn't know about the two Barry's at the end of The Man In The Yellow Suit, but Cisco came to an partially incorrect conclusion that didn't make sense (there were no speedsters from that time) because he had not considered time travel.

So I've seen the promo two more times now, time for you to go see the episode again, so you can see what I'm talking about.

Yeah...it really does look like it's either going to be explained by either his speed or some kind of hologram work. And honestly...we don't need to "know" holograms are a thing...because we already know that extremely advanced holograms can be utilized in real life. So it's just common logic than an even more advanced one could be used in a science fiction based show.

 

[Ted]

You know what, the more I think about it the more I can see Wells being future Barry. It's the only aspect of his character that seems 'twist' worthy. Gus has said that the season ends on a big twist that nobody has seemed to guess online yet (although he may just be saying that).

That was for an interview before the Man in Yellow episode, and I am pretty sure he didn't say anything about the season ending in that interview. He was only talking about Reverse Flash mystery if I remember correctly. Also, I don't think he went to every forum and every fan site and read every single theory, he probably know the most common ones and said its none of those theory.

 

[Herolee10]

Unless Wells comes from a completely different timeline, where he never met Oliver in Starling City and turned evil (or at best, morally gray) then there's NO way that it would make sense for Wells to be revealed to be a "Future" Version of Barry.

Wells shouldn't have to ask Felicity, let alone figure out, who Green Arrow was. And none of the villains that Present Day Barry has encountered should have come as a "surprise" for Wells. There's not even any evidence to suggest that he's faking ignorance regarding his inability to already know the villains that Team Flash have been encountering the present.

Also, if he was Future Barry then wouldn't it make sense to just tell Present Day Barry?

And why is his lightning streak Red as opposed to Present Day Barry's yellow streak?

Now, I could still be end up being wrong and the producers could reveal that Wells is "Future Barry", but it wouldn't make any sense and it would just seem like a twist for the sake of shock (and very dumb) value.

It's almost as dumb as the time when some crazy ass fans wanted/believed so much that Chloe Sullivan from "Smallville" would end up being revealed as the "Canon" version of Lois....even when Erica's version was introduced. Heck some were still desperate to believe that Erica's Lois would later die and that Chloe would dye her hair color and adopt Lois's name in order to remember her by or that Erica's Lois would adopt another name, thus allowing Chloe to take up the name of "Lois".

 

[Nathan]

It's almost as dumb as the time when some crazy ass fans wanted/believed so much that Chloe Sullivan from "Smallville" would end up being revealed as the "Canon" version of Lois....even when Erica's version was introduced. Heck some were still desperate to believe that Erica's Lois would later die and that Chloe would dye her hair color and adopt Lois's name in order to remember her by or that Erica's Lois would adopt another name, thus allowing Chloe to take up the name of "Lois".

Seriously? XD

 

[Herolee10]

Seriously? XD

When it comes the absurdity that Fans can possess, I can't think of any better fandom than the one belonging to "Smallville" back in the day.

You would not believe how crazy a lot of the fans of that show were, namely the shippers and Chloisers (fans who believe that Chloe was the "canon" Lois).

Honestly, the shippers for "Clark and Lana", "Clark and Chloe", and "Clark and Lois" make the Olicity fans look like saints.lol

 

[DrCosmic]

Unless Wells comes from a completely different timeline, where he never met Oliver in Starling City and turned evil (or at best, morally gray) then there's NO way that it would make sense for Wells to be revealed to be a "Future" Version of Barry.

Yes, for the 'Future Barry' idea to work, Wells would have had to have led an entirely different life than Barry, his love life, powers and according to Cisco, DNA are completely different.

But fans will cling to it forever, because they like it. It says something interesting about the perspectives of those who demand this to be so. That the most satisfying conclusion would be for Barry to grow up and go back and murder his mother, among other things. Perhaps on a certain level, they want Wells to be a good guy, and there's no gooder guy than Barry Allen in this universe, is there?

Yeah...it really does look like it's either going to be explained by either his speed or some kind of hologram work. And honestly...we don't need to "know" holograms are a thing...because we already know that extremely advanced holograms can be utilized in real life. So it's just common logic than an even more advanced one could be used in a science fiction based show.

Yes, it will be explained... by Harrison Wells. That's how you know it's a lie. I mean... does that feel legit to you, after watching the end of The Man In Yellow again? Or are you just watching the promo and ignoring the episode it's talking about? Maybe you're right and the writers are too, so hey, whatevs.

Also, where are these advanced holograms in real life? I'd NEED to see some of that. I was looking into this really advanced augmented reality set up down in Florida, they look super boss, and no one believes they can really do what they say they can. If there's some holograms that can do that free standing, please, show me Sensei. Let me learn at your feet.

Seriously.

 

[nrose21]

Also, where are these advanced holograms in real life? I'd NEED to see some of that. I was looking into this really advanced augmented reality set up down in Florida, they look super boss, and no one believes they can really do what they say they can. If there's some holograms that can do that free standing, please, show me Sensei. Let me learn at your feet.

Seriously.

Tupac hologram from Coachella '12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y

 

[hopeless]

Just a thought...

Spoiler

What if Barry does prevent his mother's murder but its a set up to free RF so he can replace Barry, but Wells is killed before Barry can restore the timeline using Wells's own time travel tech to insure everything goes back to as normal as possible.
Wells is left stranded because of the two suits meaning its linked to Barry requiring the speed force of his original powers to restore Wells access.
This assumes from Wells viewpoint he already went through Nora Allen's murder that was originally due to a normal crime that escalated when he got involved.

However if Wells is related to Barry wouldn't that be detectable?

 

[DrCosmic]

Tupac hologram from Coachella '12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGbrFmPBV0Y

Oh, yeah, that. That's really cool, and I have some ideas for that too, but it's not really a hologram, it's actually a really clever 2D projection. This guy explains that technology well enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSICZ_7hpho These guys go more in depth, and are also more fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSYpZchFpI

 

[nrose21]

Oh, yeah, that. That's really cool, and I have some ideas for that too, but it's not really a hologram, it's actually a really clever 2D projection. This guy explains that technology well enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSICZ_7hpho These guys go more in depth, and are also more fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSYpZchFpI

Yea not quite the full "hologram" but a pretty good proof of concept. I'm sure the guys and gals at Star Labs can cook up something better

 

[Batmannerism]

Oh, yeah, that. That's really cool, and I have some ideas for that too, but it's not really a hologram, it's actually a really clever 2D projection. This guy explains that technology well enough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSICZ_7hpho These guys go more in depth, and are also more fun to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSYpZchFpI

Dude you are really not keen on the hologram explanation !

I re-watched the Man in the Yellow suit episode and the containment field
starts fluctuating - which Wells could have easily rigged....but I also noticed one thing that might suggest you're right is that Wells is lying on the ground bleeding when RF grabs the Tachyon device and runs away with it - that would be pretty tough to do with holograms - by that I mean physically moving the tachyon device (the stuff inside the containment field is explicable by holograms, but the bit where Wells is clearly injured might not be).

Having said that, I'm not 100% convinced on the time travel explanation, but we'll see what happens on the 17th.

I still don't buy the "future Barry" theories - mostly because it would be a huuugge break from the comic canon. Also, clearly RF doesn't harm Eddie during his demolition of the cops, which strongly suggests that Eddie is indeed his ancestor.

Roll on March 17th !

 

[Mike Murdock]

Just a thought...

Spoiler

What if Barry does prevent his mother's murder but its a set up to free RF so he can replace Barry, but Wells is killed before Barry can restore the timeline using Wells's own time travel tech to insure everything goes back to as normal as possible.
Wells is left stranded because of the two suits meaning its linked to Barry requiring the speed force of his original powers to restore Wells access.
This assumes from Wells viewpoint he already went through Nora Allen's murder that was originally due to a normal crime that escalated when he got involved.

However if Wells is related to Barry wouldn't that be detectable?

Yeah, they'd share certain DNA markers. But you have to still interpret DNA. You don't put it into a computer and it says "they're related!" Granted, I suspect Cisco would have caught something like that, but he does have to look for it.

 

[godisawesome]

To offer one Devil's advocate-style contention on the red lightning of Reverse Flash proving anything about who Wells is...

We've seen that Wells has to charge his powers using the Tachyon device, and appears to have a finite charge of the speed force in comparison to Barry. If Well's suit and the device are ultimately responsible for his powers by siphoning of the Speed Force, would it not make sense if the inorganic procedure had a red lightning side effect?

And I've got the feeling that if we have any more Reverse Flash's showing up, the suit will be the key to their powers and succession to the role.

 

[DrCosmic]

Dude you are really not keen on the hologram explanation !

I re-watched the Man in the Yellow suit episode and the containment field
starts fluctuating - which Wells could have easily rigged....but I also noticed one thing that might suggest you're right is that Wells is lying on the ground bleeding when RF grabs the Tachyon device and runs away with it - that would be pretty tough to do with holograms - by that I mean physically moving the tachyon device (the stuff inside the containment field is explicable by holograms, but the bit where Wells is clearly injured might not be).

Having said that, I'm not 100% convinced on the time travel explanation, but we'll see what happens on the 17th.

I still don't buy the "future Barry" theories - mostly because it would be a huuugge break from the comic canon. Also, clearly RF doesn't harm Eddie during his demolition of the cops, which strongly suggests that Eddie is indeed his ancestor.

Roll on March 17th !

See, now that you've seen the episode, you're "really not keen" on the holograms either...

That said, I did overlook that holograms are a thing in the Flash universe, Cisco uses them in Barry's old house to show off the Flash vs RF fight. I think it's a bit ambitious to hope that they resolve a major storyline the first time they try to figure it out with 7 episodes to go. We probably won't know the truth until episode 20.

 

[just one thing]

What if wells made a balls of things by killing nora allan, got trapped in some sort of paradox and he needs the flash to fix it. Training barry to fight a younger wells. rather than creating an alternative universe this is it. Not enough character history built up for flashpoint but flash point is shorthand for the creation of a new reality.

 

[Batmannerism]

See, now that you've seen the episode, you're "really not keen" on the holograms either...

That said, I did overlook that holograms are a thing in the Flash universe, Cisco uses them in Barry's old house to show off the Flash vs RF fight. I think it's a bit ambitious to hope that they resolve a major storyline the first time they try to figure it out with 7 episodes to go. We probably won't know the truth until episode 20.

Dude, I had seen the episode, several times before our little discussion, and I'm still not sold on the time travel explanation - although I had never ruled it out completely. And I haven't completely given up on my hologram theory either - although the point i mentioned about Wells being bleeding on the floor when the RF grabs the tachyon device does indeed seem to indicate that he was literally in two places at once.

To be honest I never thought that the next episode would resolve all of these quandries, and I wouldn't want it to - I'm enjoying the mystery and I love the way the writers are taking their time with it, unveiling the truth about Wells piece by tantalizing piece. I can certainly wait until the end of the season to find out what's really been going on.

As others have mentioned, this characterization of the Reverse Flash seems to be a bit less psychotic and generally evil than his comic book counterpart.

In fact Wells seems to be exceptionally rational and calm - something the RF is generally not. Personally, I like this version of RF better, he's damn scary when he's doing his yellow suit thing ( a lot scarier than if he was just a cackling maniac).

Also, it appears as though he has a larger purpose than just screwing with the Flash (maybe that will come later) which makes him more interesting.

cheers.

 

[Bren]

Personally, I like this version of RF better, he's damn scary when he's doing his yellow suit thing ( a lot scarier than if he was just a cackling maniac).

Also, it appears as though he has a larger purpose than just screwing with the Flash (maybe that will come later) which makes him more interesting.

cheers.

I'm thoroughly enjoying Wells as whatever version of the Reverse Flash he is. Not sure I prefer this to the regular comic version, but he's bloody good (bad ) and definitely 'scary'...