Tombstone and The Big Man. One in the same?

Valorman

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I know this has been discussed abroad the other boards in this particular forum, and I'm aware that creating a thread on this may seem redundant or unnecessary for many, but I've run into many people who still hold some confusion about the subject of L. Lincoln and i thought those who came here looking for an answer or clarification would find it easier to just find this title among the others rather than searching through 80-some pages for a clear idea.

(Also, i have to admit I'm not among the most popular forum members here, and i tend to be overlooked in some cases, and i thought this particular message deserved more attention)

So, the big question is: Is Tombstone really the big man?

My answer? No.L. Thompson Lincoln AKA. Tombstone is a high level enforcer, one to take on formal matters of business and empire rather than, say, getting his hands dirty or making his presence in the "family" all too obvious- That's hammerheads job. Tombstone is the physical presence of The Big man's empire, but he is not the true "Big Man" himself, this is obvious once we look at a few key points:

-Tombstone never once refers to himself as the big man, in fact, he only speaks of the big man in third person,"His empire, etc." going so far as to refer to his own lack of knowledge when it comes to his employer. I.E."The Big Man... Whomever he might be, has nothing against heroes"
-Tombstones only references to himself are when making the deal with spider-man. the offer to work "for him" may be one of three things, either A: tombstone is switching narratives to create confusion, B: He is attempting to thwart Big Man by buying Spidey out himself, or C: he is referring to working under him, as another branch of the Big Mans empire. The third seems the most likely.
-The character of Mr. Foswell is definetly more than a simple cameo. Foswell, as many of you are already aware, is the identity of The Big Man in the comic books. Some have argued that Foswell has been made a journalist or bugle employee in contrast with the character change ala Montana to shocker, i argue that this simply doesint make sense. Montana was made the shocker in order to create a coherent story for the characters origins, and Greg Weisman has stated that they would never change characters or throw in twists to the original spider-man canon if they were found unnecessary. Foswell would not be introduced, and then left aside, by the creative team we have right now, his introduction is designed to be much more than it currently is.

-Foswell, as well, is an obvious prop for foreshadowing, you can see so in the cinematography of the show, as in some of his lines. For example, Foswells introduction to us is the elevator scene in which rhino needs to get to the 22nd floor to find peter parker. Foswell, standing in center of the elevator, is enveloped in the silhouette of the rhino... a small man masked by a giant figure, an exact depiction of the big man's true nature. Later on, during foswells conversation with peter, he says himself "If their is a big man out there, his name isint Lincoln."

All of this is a dramatic set up, little clues designed to be unseen by the common viewer, but once they're examined it becomes quite clear where the writers are going with this.


That being said, i want to commend the staff who've brought this show to us, I'm 18 now and i have no shame in telling my friends i jump out of my bed every Saturday morning, giddy like a child at Christmas, right before the show. i think we've all gotten a chance to believe in spidey again and I'm grateful that I'm a part of this fan base.
 
To those confused over the way Tombstone spoke of the Big Man, well... have you ever met a real figure involved in Organized Crime? Well, the smart ones do talk like that. Vague and through innuendo. Even to other members of Organized Crime.

Why? In case of wiretaps. Or so their subordinates can't say under oath "he specifically told me to kill this guy."
 
I know this has been discussed abroad the other boards in this particular forum, and I'm aware that creating a thread on this may seem redundant or unnecessary for many, but I've run into many people who still hold some confusion about the subject of L. Lincoln and i thought those who came here looking for an answer or clarification would find it easier to just find this title among the others rather than searching through 80-some pages for a clear idea.

(Also, i have to admit I'm not among the most popular forum members here, and i tend to be overlooked in some cases, and i thought this particular message deserved more attention)

So, the big question is: Is Tombstone really the big man?

My answer? No.L. Thompson Lincoln AKA. Tombstone is a high level enforcer, one to take on formal matters of business and empire rather than, say, getting his hands dirty or making his presence in the "family" all too obvious- That's hammerheads job. Tombstone is the physical presence of The Big man's empire, but he is not the true "Big Man" himself, this is obvious once we look at a few key points:

-Tombstone never once refers to himself as the big man, in fact, he only speaks of the big man in third person,"His empire, etc." going so far as to refer to his own lack of knowledge when it comes to his employer. I.E."The Big Man... Whomever he might be, has nothing against heroes"
-Tombstones only references to himself are when making the deal with spider-man. the offer to work "for him" may be one of three things, either A: tombstone is switching narratives to create confusion, B: He is attempting to thwart Big Man by buying Spidey out himself, or C: he is referring to working under him, as another branch of the Big Mans empire. The third seems the most likely.
-The character of Mr. Foswell is definetly more than a simple cameo. Foswell, as many of you are already aware, is the identity of The Big Man in the comic books. Some have argued that Foswell has been made a journalist or bugle employee in contrast with the character change ala Montana to shocker, i argue that this simply doesint make sense. Montana was made the shocker in order to create a coherent story for the characters origins, and Greg Weisman has stated that they would never change characters or throw in twists to the original spider-man canon if they were found unnecessary. Foswell would not be introduced, and then left aside, by the creative team we have right now, his introduction is designed to be much more than it currently is.

-Foswell, as well, is an obvious prop for foreshadowing, you can see so in the cinematography of the show, as in some of his lines. For example, Foswells introduction to us is the elevator scene in which rhino needs to get to the 22nd floor to find peter parker. Foswell, standing in center of the elevator, is enveloped in the silhouette of the rhino... a small man masked by a giant figure, an exact depiction of the big man's true nature. Later on, during foswells conversation with peter, he says himself "If their is a big man out there, his name isint Lincoln."

All of this is a dramatic set up, little clues designed to be unseen by the common viewer, but once they're examined it becomes quite clear where the writers are going with this.


That being said, i want to commend the staff who've brought this show to us, I'm 18 now and i have no shame in telling my friends i jump out of my bed every Saturday morning, giddy like a child at Christmas, right before the show. i think we've all gotten a chance to believe in spidey again and I'm grateful that I'm a part of this fan base.
Ummm....yep.
 
Yea good post valorman i been saying this in the episodes thread. I still think foswell is the big man and tombstone is as u said either working for him or he is trying to take him on and take over his empire and all that. And yea this is a different sitution then the shocker one since they didnt include herman schultz and made montana shocker for a more organic feel for the show. But since they have foswell in the show and he was big man in the comics i dont see why they would put him in the show as cameo/nods to the comics and make him just a reporter character when they could have used other bugle reporters like ben urich or others(cant think of any others off top of head). So i really hope they are just tricking us/others into thinking tombstone is big man but then later it is revealed to be foswell which would make it a bigger shock to the viewers and to peter and other bugle characters.
 
While I wouldn't be surprised if Tombstone is just a front and Foswell is the real deal, I would give the creators serious props if Tombstone was indeed the real Big Man. This in a sense is just a different universe, so of course they have to change things up. We were all expecting the big reveal to be Foswell and the producers knew that but BAM they threw us off and showed us Tombstone ugly mug instead. :up:

I'm hoping they do the same for Hobgoblin, when they reveal who he is I want to be surprised and not expect Kingsly. Otherwise whats the point of the mystery, if we know whos under the mask?
 
True they can do what they want with the show but why put foswell in just for being a red herring/cameo-nod appearance for comics fans to notice. It is a waste to his character then if he doesnt become who he really is. And i have said this a few times i dont want to see people keep getting mergered together. And about voice its the same dam voice actor playing him and all that so maybe if he isnt the same two characters he just wasnt doing a variety to his voice for them.
 
But why would a guy like Toombstone be working for Foswell i mean he is more powerful then him and he beat the crap out of Spidey.
 
True they can do what they want with the show but why put foswell in just for being a red herring/cameo-nod appearance for comics fans to notice.
Simple to throw us off.
 
Yea it could be to just throw us off but then if u look at its a waste to his character if thats all he is there for. They as i said before could have just as easily used any other bugle reporter characters from the comics.
 
to be honest I hope tombstone isn't the big man, the reveal was way too easy and too early.
 
yea that is what i hope to why would they reveal big man this soon i hope it is just to throw us off for now. We just have to wait and see what they plan to do with big man and all that.
 
To those confused over the way Tombstone spoke of the Big Man, well... have you ever met a real figure involved in Organized Crime? Well, the smart ones do talk like that. Vague and through innuendo. Even to other members of Organized Crime.

Why? In case of wiretaps. Or so their subordinates can't say under oath "he specifically told me to kill this guy."

Theirs mis-direction, and theirs purposeful narrative. I believe Tombstone wasint simply referring to himself for the duration of his conversation because he would, then, have switched through three narratives within the five minutes of his introduction (His income/Whenever I chose/ Assaulted my person)

The idea of Tombstone being the big-man is a cover, another layer meant to keep those lucky enough to get that high up the ladder intimidated, and those under them working like good pawn. I'd argue that hammerhead doesint even know Lincoln isint the big man, obviously Osborn doesint know the difference either. If hammerhead knew a skinny creep like foswell was running the show, I'm pretty sure he'd try to overthrow him, but TOMBSTONE? nah, that's someone you respect.

It all comes down to Brains and Brawn working hand in hand. foswell's created this whole, foolproof ruse, but doesint have the real muscle to carry it out, and foswell desires this, it's as easy as realising he creates an alias named "The Big Man". Tombstone, while smart in his own right, faces so much prejudice over his appearance and the like that beginning with a plan like this would be near impossible... but put the two together? moonlighting as one, the other hidden in plain sight? that's how you run an organization as shifty as the big man empire.
 
Haha, i just typed everything i did up there while you posted about being ignored.

How the web weaves huh?

Heh, no worries.

But the thing is, John Gotti walked around openly as a crime lord. Everyone knew who and what he was. Didn't mean they could arrest him.
 
As I have said a few times, I do think that Tombstone really isn't the Big Man. I mean, nobody expects Frederick Foswell to be the Big man and nobody did expect him to be the Big Man in the comics either. So that's one of the reasons I think Foswell is the Big Man.
 
Heh, no worries.

But the thing is, John Gotti walked around openly as a crime lord. Everyone knew who and what he was. Didn't mean they could arrest him.

And foswells gone a step above that. He has a figure walking around, an "alleged" crime lord, only dismissed to us by foswells word, while he walks around laughing at everyones back.
 
Ok ok you know who is really the big man, its [BLACKOUT]
aunt may lol.
[/BLACKOUT]
 
But why would a guy like Toombstone be working for Foswell i mean he is more powerful then him and he beat the crap out of Spidey.
Because Foswell is smarter/a better criminal mastermind?

I think it's a feint; the kids who are the show's intended audience will be stunned when the villain isn't the intimidating, voiced-by-FauxKeith David guy, but the nerdy reporter. And it'll throw older fans for a loop.
 
Aunt Carnage strikes again

auntcarnage.jpg
 

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