Transformers Transformers 2 Info + Why The Movie Designs Are Different From G1

[Avangarde]

edit - laughing at DL comments not CF

^^^

ROFL

As for the G1 thing, Don Murphy said they will be making a G1 based movie, that's what hyped the fans up, unfortunately he was talking out of his arse and now the G1 fans are sad panda's

 

[blind_fury]

What about the countless cultures throughout history where soliders have gone into battle with their bodies decorated in some fashion. Warpaint, those "trendy tribal tattoos" you speak of, scarification. You telling me none of those military leaders exhibited stoicism or honor?

Did John Wayne ever wear war face paint or face tatoos in war movies??? Optimus Prime is John Wayne meets Douglas MacAuther he isn't a savage warrior. He's an all American 5-star general mixed with John Wayne. People like this don't sport tribal tatoos or wear face paint. It's like saying Atticus Finch should look like Colonel Sanders the KFC mascot because he's a southern lawyer. Yeah he's a southern lawyer but that wouldn't fit his character and would detract from his purpose and what he represents.

Stop fishing for reason for not liking the paint job other than, "It doesn't like exactly like the cartoon." Because that's all it is.

Stop fishing for a reason to like the paint job other than "the G1 charactizations don't deserve to be popular or adapted properly" because that's all it is to you.

 

[Cth]

Go check out Transformers comic books...they're still using G1 designs and the stories are sci-fi and smart. That's more of what I wanted in a Transformers live action movie.

No offense, but that doesn't support anything.

The current comics dropped from 35k to 17k.

The G1 reprints from 24k to 6k.

The prequel comic (alternative cover) sold almost 3k.

Let's be generous and say all 35,000 readers (faithful G1 fans) went to see the movie. Average movie ticket price (also being generous) at $10.

That's a paltry $350,000 dollars.

So, let's be further generous.

Each fan sees the film 3 times.

That's $1,050,000.

Of course, that's without factoring in theater takes, studio takes, cast takes, etc.

You can see why studios don't make the majority of decisions based on fandom alone hopefully.

 

[blind_fury]

As for the G1 thing, Don Murphy said they will be making a G1 based movie, that's what hyped the fans up, unfortunately he was talking out of his arse and now the G1 fans are sad panda's

bait and switch

If G1 sucked so bad why do a movie called Transformers? Because it was popular but then they change most of what made it popular in the first place.

Why did Transformers fall into the hands of hacks and con-artist?

 

[KenK]

Let's be honest. This is Michael Bay we're talking about. Do you really think he got went on the level of, "Let me see what different cultures' military leaders wore into battle so I can create a proper image for Optimus Prime".

I wasn't saying he did. I was merely commenting on Blind Fury's assertion that the concept of a soldier decorating himself is doesn't make sense.

Did John Wayne ever wear war face paint or face tatoos in war movies??? Optimus Prime is John Wayne meets Douglas MacAuther he isn't a savage warrior. He's an all American 5-star general mixed with John Wayne.

Optimus Prime is a robot from another freakin' planet! Enough of this pandering to archaic fantasies of "great American war heroes"!

 

[Avangarde]

bait and switch

If G1 sucked so bad why do a movie called Transformers? Because it was popular but then they change most of that made it popular in the first place.

Why did Transformers fall into the hands of hacks and con-artist?

Because there is no God

 

[blind_fury]

And, contrary to what you say, the problem is that the paint DOES look like the cartoon. It looks like Rodimus Prime!

sssshhhh. These characters are interchangeable to these people.

They have no clue why Transformers resonated with millions for decades.

 

[nosebleed.]

No offense, but that doesn't support anything.

The current comics dropped from 35k to 17k.

The G1 reprints from 24k to 6k.

The prequel comic (alternative cover) sold almost 3k.

Let's be generous and say all 35,000 readers (faithful G1 fans) went to see the movie. Average movie ticket price (also being generous) at $10.

That's a paltry $350,000 dollars.

So, let's be further generous.

Each fan sees the film 3 times.

That's $1,050,000.

Of course, that's without factoring in theater takes, studio takes, cast takes, etc.

You can see why studios don't make the majority of decisions based on fandom alone hopefully.

My point wasn't to say that fans are what's going to make or break this movie as far as box office is concerned. I'm just stating that the G1 designs are pretty much timeless. They're still being used in comics today but with tweaks here and there to the designs, depending on which artist is drawing them. Yugi was saying he didn't see how the last four cartoon episodes were faithful to G1...and I was just pointing out that there are still Transformers media that are. So you see, I wasn't talking money at all.

 

[nosebleed.]

I wasn't saying he did. I was merely commenting on Blind Fury's assertion that the concept of a soldier decorating himself is doesn't make sense.

ah, got it.

 

[blind_fury]

I wasn't saying he did. I was merely commenting on Blind Fury's assertion that the concept of a soldier decorating himself is doesn't make sense.

That wasn't my assertion at all. It's ok for a soldier to wear tribal tatoos if it fits the character.

Optimus Prime is a robot from another freakin' planet! Enough of this pandering to archaic fantasies of "great American war heroes"!

Go to any Transformers web site and ask the fans if Optimus Prime is the John Wayne/Douglas MacAuthur of Transformers they will tell you yes.

All the Transformers robots have personalities that mirror their vehicle forms. Grimlock turns into a dinosaur so he speaks like a primitive cave man. Bumblebee turns into is tiny VW bug so he speaks kind of nerdy and innocent. Starscream turns into a jet fighter so his personality is sneaky. Optimus Prime turns into an all American 18 wheeler but he's also a respected leader so he speaks like John Wayne.

If you can't understand this maybe Transformers isn't for you.

 

[blind_fury]

Let's be honest. This is Michael Bay we're talking about. Do you really think he got went on the level of, "Let me see what different cultures' military leaders wore into battle so I can create a proper image for Optimus Prime".

I think it went more like this, "Man, some flames would be really ****ing nice on this giant ****ing robot, get me some cholo guy who can paint really good".

Does anyone have a screenshot of the truck Steve Buscemi's character drives in "the Island"?

It pretty much confirms the shallow reason Bay gave Optimus a flame paint job.

 

[Cth]

My point wasn't to say that fans are what's going to make or break this movie as far as box office is concerned. I'm just stating that the G1 designs are pretty much timeless. They're still being used in comics today but with tweaks here and there to the designs, depending on which artist is drawing them. Yugi was saying he didn't see how the last four cartoon episodes were faithful to G1...and I was just pointing out that there are still Transformers media that are. So you see, I wasn't talking money at all.

The Joss Whedon fans said the same thing about Serenity/Firefly, and how it was going to be the next Star Wars.

Purists are not going to make or break the film by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, the G1 designs are timeless, but as it's been covered, Hasbro does not want that as a condition of making the movie.

All I'm saying is fandom always overestimates how big they are. When it comes to movies, the unfortunate reality is that they HAVE to appeal to the larger masses. The same ones who tune in every week for American Idol, buy Britney Spears albums, etc.

One could even argue that the 1986 film, which USED the G1 designs, and was faithful, only made 5.8 million.

Again, that's just the reality of the situation, there's just no way it could have been made solely for purists.

The best they can do is try to merge all the various incarnations and appeal to the larger audience. It can implode (see also: HULK 2003 having to appeal to comic fans, tv show fans, and regular movie goers) but it can succeed too.

Yes, it's a disappointment we won't see the classic boxy designs, and that some of you got your hopes up when producers said they were aiming for a G1 film, but that's just the reality of the situation.

The film won't change the toys, comics, etc. It's yet another reinvention. There may even be new fans who seek out the old stuff, which can lead to more fans, which is good for everyone.

The best you can do is to be disappointed, and try not to give Transformers fans a bad name if it does succeed. Because if it does, then purists opinions won't matter in the long run when it comes to future films/toys/comics.

There's ways to disagree without coming across as a crazy fan (and yes, the pro-film side has their own fan contingent too). If fandom is to mean anything, everything should be done reasonably and with intelligence.. random hatred and ranting just reinforces negative stereotypes and hollywood's opinion of fans.

 

[KenK]

All the Transformers robots have personalities that mirror their vehicle forms. Grimlock turns into a dinosaur so he speaks like a primitive cave man. Bumblebee turns into is tiny VW bug so he speaks kind of nerdy and innocent. Starscream turns into a jet fighter so his personality is sneaky. Optimus Prime turns into an all American 18 wheeler but he's also a respected leader so he speaks like John Wayne.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this?

That's kind of a flawed argument. You say the Transformers personalities are related to their vehicle forms. That's fine. You cite transformers where that's the case. Okay. But when you get to Prime, you diverge from your argument to say his personality is supposed to be inspired by John Wayne in spite of the fact that his vehicle form is an 18-wheeler, something that's never been synonymous with John Wayne.

 

[blind_fury]

The Joss Whedon fans said the same thing about Serenity/Firefly, and how it was going to be the next Star Wars.

Purists are not going to make or break the film by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes, the G1 designs are timeless, but as it's been covered, Hasbro does not want that as a condition of making the movie.

All I'm saying is fandom always overestimates how big they are. When it comes to movies, the unfortunate reality is that they HAVE to appeal to the larger masses. The same ones who tune in every week for American Idol, buy Britney Spears albums, etc.

Silly misconception.

You don't make LOTR movies for jocks and soccer moms. You make it for the fans who understand the appeal of the characters. Soccer moms and jocks thought wizards and hobbits were lame until they saw an epic and beautiful middle earth on screen then they realized the appeal of wizards and hobbits. You allow the characters and stories to transform the audience not the other way around.

The film won't change the toys, comics, etc. It's yet another reinvention. There may even be new fans who seek out the old stuff, which can lead to more fans, which is good for everyone.

The 300 graphic novel became a top seller after the movie. LXG didn't have the same effect for some reason.

The best you can do is to be disappointed, and try not to give Transformers fans a bad name if it does succeed. Because if it does, then purists opinions won't matter in the long run when it comes to future films/toys/comics.

Yeah if fans were apathetic Batman Begins would've never been made and Jar Jar would've had alot more screen time in Star Wars episode 2 and 3.

There's ways to disagree without coming across as a crazy fan (and yes, the pro-film side has their own fan contingent too). If fandom is to mean anything, everything should be done reasonably and with intelligence.. random hatred and ranting just reinforces negative stereotypes and hollywood's opinion of fans.

The purist would be alot more open minded if Bay wasn't just throwing away characters and concepts wrecklessly. If he was attempting to elevate the source material it would be obvious to fans who live and breathe Transformers. The problem is Bay isn't eleveating the source material. He's giving it the lazy LXG treatment which not only alienates life-long fans but also hides the true appeal of the fantasy and characters.

 

[blind_fury]

That's kind of a flawed argument. You say the Transformers personalities are related to their vehicle forms. That's fine. You cite transformers where that's the case. Okay. But when you get to Prime, you diverge from your argument to say his personality is supposed to be inspired by John Wayne in spite of the fact that his vehicle form is an 18-wheeler, something that's never been synonymous with John Wayne.

The average American trucker generally relates more to John Wayne than they do any other Hollywood idol. He sybolizes modernized wild west values, American toughness, and everyman heroics.

If an 18 wheeler could speak in the typical users idealized voice he would sound like John Wayne. An Optimus Prime who spoke like Peter O'Toole wouldn't really reflect the typical user of an American 18-wheeler.

Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China was supposed to be a satirical take on a modernized John Wayne and he was a trucker. That's because many truckers identified with John Wayne. A rugged cowboy in the 20th century who played the American hero.

John Wayne is the perfect persona for Optimus Prime.

 

[KenK]

So now Optimus is a cowboy?!? Is he a cowboy or a five-star general. Make up your damn mind!

 

[AyeCapn]

He's a sous chef at Bennigans

 

[DOG LIPS]

So now Optimus is a cowboy?!? Is he a cowboy or a five-star general. Make up your damn mind!

He's a five-star cowboy!!!!!

 

[KenK]

He's a five-star cowboy!!!!!

A Rhinestone Cowboy? Huh? t:

 

[blind_fury]

So now Optimus is a cowboy?!? Is he a cowboy or a five-star general. Make up your damn mind!

Optimus - "I love the smell of plasma blasts in the morning!!!"

 

[Cth]

Silly misconception.

You don't make LOTR movies for jocks and soccer moms. You make it for the fans who understand the appeal of the characters. Soccer moms and jocks thought wizards and hobbits were lame until they saw an epic and beautiful middle earth on screen then they realized the appeal of wizards and hobbits. You allow the characters and stories to transform the audience not the other way around.

Even sillier misconception.

You're actually comparing literature to an 1980 toy line?

Are you saying that the reason it was successful is ONLY because of the fans?

The reason it did so well, is BECAUSE it appealed to the jocks and soccer moms in addition to the fans.

Besides, this doesn't help your argument any, as Bay is giving an epic depiction of the Transformers.

You concentrate on making the best film you can, and don't be a slave to fandom. It helps to take it into consideration, but never to let them be the driving force behind things.

PS - There's even LOTR fans who were disappointed it wasn't as faithful as it could have been for what it's worth.

The 300 graphic novel became a top seller after the movie. LXG didn't have the same effect for some reason.

You missed the point. 300 the film didn't change the graphic novel. Nor did LXG change the comic. This film won't change anything about Transformers.

Yeah if fans were apathetic Batman Begins would've never been made and Jar Jar would've had alot more screen time in Star Wars episode 2 and 3.

Actually, again, you're wrong.

BB was made cause the studios wanted another franchise. If fans were responsible, why was there a ten year break between films?

And Jar Jar? C'mon, you're using Jar Jar to support an argument. Outside of kids, there wasn't many people who liked the character. Fans didn't cause that, the jocks and soccer moms as you put it also did.

The purist would be alot more open minded if Bay wasn't just throwing away characters and concepts wrecklessly. If he was attempting to elevate the source material it would be obvious to fans who live and breathe Transformers. The problem is Bay isn't eleveating the source material. He's giving it the lazy LXG treatment which not only alienates life-long fans but also hides the true appeal of the fantasy and characters.

Well, the purist can think that, but he doesn't really know now does he?

Unless he was on set and talking to Bay, or somehow a mind reader.

I'd imagine they also picture Bay setting G1 figures on fire in effigy, but that's not reality now is it?

Still to reality, where fans are exactly that, fanatics. There's a reason the word is called adaptation.

 

[blind_fury]

So now Optimus is a cowboy?!? Is he a cowboy or a five-star general. Make up your damn mind!

Um, the Japanese often refered to Douglas MacAuther as a modern day cowboy. so yeah.

 

[Modernize73]

Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China was supposed to be a satirical take on a modernized John Wayne and he was a trucker. That's because many truckers identified with John Wayne. A rugged cowboy in the 20th century who played the American hero.

Optimus prime? The new Pork chop express?? Lol

I love that movie...t:

 

[KenK]

Yeah, Lord of the Rings really was the Harry Potter of its time. I feel left out for not having read any of the books.

 

[Overman27pj]

BF - You have an inapproiate analogy here...

The 'battle mode' is not like face paint, it is extra protection/extra offensive stuff.

Does a soilder go into battle without wearing a helmet?