Fantasy TV is now The Lord of the Rings!
Heroes are moving to the Movies sections!
How do you guys figure that exactly. That it will out do all the other films that opened in the 90's but fell well short of the land mark? Better made films in various cases. I suppose like cap it might have the benefit of months of lax competition but still. Still, only took cap so far. A billion really? I'm curious myself if it will be the highest grossing cbm this year.
Besides, can a movie with sexualized/innuendous and offensive humor and nonsensical plots really strive? I was told otherwise for weeks in these threads. However I suppose if anything the TF films argue anything can happen with this sort of General Audience. It's a measure of entertainment vs that of technical film making as per the on again off again 'rules'.
I don't know where you're getting that from. It's on course to be the highest grossing film in the US this year. It's at 150 million US already. Probably end up around 270-280. And it hasn't been released in China and a few other markets yet.
Why would anyone expect it to hit a billion though? I think anything above 600 million would be an amazing success.
Agreed Roach, when something from Marvel or WB makes a billion, its audiences liking smart movies, when a Bay movie does it, the GA are dumbasses again, its silly really.
I got into this very same discussion with a friend of mine over this movie...Avengers hits a billion and it's cause people love the film....Transformers hits a billion and it's because people were tricked into seeing the movie and people hate it and....when a movie hits a billion that means people are seeing it again and again.
I'd have more respect for the snobs if they didn't point to the Marvel films as the shining example of cinematic perfection.
I'm all for snobbery, but then back up your arrogance with genuine elite-dom.
I'd have more respect for the snobs if they didn't point to the Marvel films as the shining example of cinematic perfection.
I'm all for snobbery, but then back up your arrogance with genuine elite-dom.
No one thinks Marvels films are cinematic perfection. But it's like this...
Baby Groot dancing to the Jackson 5 and Steve Rogers giving an inspiring speech is a microcosm of Marvels films.
Hound shooting a vagina alien because it's ugly and Optimus granting freedom to the Dinobots then practically enslaving them to his will is a microcosm of Bay's films.
I got into this very same discussion with a friend of mine over this movie...Avengers hits a billion and it's cause people love the film....Transformers hits a billion and it's because people were tricked into seeing the movie and people hate it and....when a movie hits a billion that means people are seeing it again and again.
And therein lies the problem. You are literally telling us what you see when looking at each film in 'microcosm' summery. It's no wonder you spend the time you do putting one down whilst lifting the other. You only see the good in one and the bad in the other rather. Optimus has kinda given "inspirational speeches" at the end of all the films(for example) but that's not what he's about apparently, it doesn't fit into your evidence bubble of what he is. Like saying Cap is just some gov't stooge though that's not all he is. Evidence bubble. Likethe giant tree smiling emphatically after slaughtering a room of people....but it's all about baby jackson 5 and all that.
We see what we want, some of us anyways. Luckily the GA goes about this differently.
The producers are only interested in producing the best TF films given the material. They have said as much. If you want to deconstruct their actual 'intent' you'll need more than just conjecture based on your personal experience with the films and the thoughts of detractors. You'd no doubt also need something to argue against the mass success these producers find in their approach. Again, best film experience possible with the material and they've seemingly found that happy medium. The extreme approach would literally be adapting Shakespeare in with TF lore and arriving at 'the best film' possible if you will. But what would this GA think and how much success would be had vs the current situation.I don't see anyone pointing at Marvel films as examples of cinematic perfection, but the people behind those films do seem to be more interested in making the best films with the material they have while still remaining as close as possible to the source material. Transformers on the other hand has all the same problems Bay films have, being offensive and giving some weird dialogue.
Also, you can have main characters that aren't goody good, Rambo and many other heroes from the 80s proved that you could have incredibly violent heroes, the problem is that the way this is handled in the Transformers movies is just weird and makes Optimus Prime look like a psyco, it's little things like screaming "i'm gonna kill ya!" in every confrontation, ripping faces off while begging for mercy the next minute, or killing aliens for "being ugly" what makes the characters come across this way.
Either way, i find the idea that "the general public knows it's bad but likes it", many don't like to admit it, but a lot of people love these movies, they don't have as much fan following in part of the "geek crowd", but the GA does seem to like it, even now that the Domestic numbers are getting weaker, the gross in China is shooting up.
Never confuse the reaction of the internet with that of the general public, the latest James Cameron movies are a pretty good example, some like to consider that he hasn't made a good movie in years, yet Titanic and Avatar are some of the most loved films by the GA and were very well regarded by the public.
The extreme approach would literally be adapting Shakespeare in with TF lore and arriving at 'the best film' possible if you will. But what would this GA think and how much success would be had vs the current situation.
Groot isn't just a dancing baby in a cup... Was my point. And actually he didn't need to kill all those guys(this much would be clear to any fervent MOS detractor anyways) He certainly didn't need to smile directly after it too. Again the point was simply about selective 'microcosms'. Heroes calling others '****e' is a microcosm if one see's fit. Anything could be if you look at it obtusely enough. The issue of cynicism and self interest...Cap never contradicts his inspiring speeches like Optimus though. "Every sentient being is allowed the right to freedom!" He can say that all he wants, his actions suggest otherwise. It's just lip service at the end of the day. Cap's actions suggest he actually means what he says. He never contradicts his ideals.
As for Groot? He kills bunch of alien murderers in a combat situation. He doesn't execute fallen and unarmed foes begging for mercy. He doesn't enslave a whole race of beings to do his bidding for him.
If Marvels films were universally panned then it wouldn't surprise me if you was apologizing for them.
The thing is, it's ok to like bad movies. Just admit they're bad. I bet 99% of the general audiences who go to these Transformers films know they are garbage with pretty visuals. But they don't give a ****. I can respect that. Hell i bet Michael Bay knows these films are garbage when it comes to plot and characterization. He knows exactly what he's doing and he doesn't care. Good for him.
But then you have people like you suggesting that in terms of story and characterization, these films are unfairly judged compared to other summer movies? hahahaha do me a favour. The differences between these films and Marvels films or original summer movies like Edge of Tomorrow are clear as day.
What's also interesting is this new phenomena of dismissing China on a case by case basis.I got into this very same discussion with a friend of mine over this movie...Avengers hits a billion and it's cause people love the film....Transformers hits a billion and it's because people were tricked into seeing the movie and people hate it and....when a movie hits a billion that means people are seeing it again and again.
People forget that movies are entertainment. Their job is to entertain.
..and why is it people try to put an Asterix on box office numbers they don't agree with....no one says a thing about business or marketing when a movie they like makes a billion...but when Bay does it...twice...all of a sudden people are stupid and sheep and the guys is a business wiz and the movie was marketed well.
^ Critics(the handfull or so people that supposedly represent a portion of the film audience) don't actually base all of that stuff on 'quality'. They base it on their own personal standards.
At the end of the day, many of them just like certain films more than others(same as any of us). That's why Sharknado has a higher score than some oscar movies, or evil dead has it's perfect or whatever...