Transformers Transformers is not Toy Story

[mMark]

Makes absolutly no sense whatsoever: They could of easily made versions that would of been tru to the originals and not look like "Giant toys". I think you and your coworker highly underhestimate the technology at hand!

Secondly: Changing major designs is always a mistake. The truer they've stay to the original (With other superhero/comic book movies), the better praises they have been receiving. For exemple: people still cry foul of the casting of a black man for the kingpin in Daredevil, the X-men costumes and the poor portrail of Venom in SM3, while people are praising the Iron man costume (Which doesn't look like a big toy, BTW), the portrail of Spider-man in the first movie and many seem more and more excited at the upcoming portrail of the Joker in TDK; all of the laters being close representations of the original material.

transformers is a special case here, the superheroes you listed are all human figure-based. think about that.

 

[November Rain]

You made nothing clear in your post. You stated what people have been stating over and over again. That G1 WON'T WORK! Of COURSE it won't work...that's why we're all open to new designs...but most of us want designs that are at least slightly recognizable.

Those two resemble each other more than any of the new designs. THAT's what I'm getting at. You cannot justify the reason why the other Transformers don't resemble ANY previous incarnation like the new Optimus Prime does to his G1 self.



Who the hell is asking for "simple cartoonized structure"?

i am completely on your wavelength here...

superman, spiderman, wolverine, cyclops, rogue, professor xavier, sabretooth, sabretooth, mystique, nightcrawler, angel,daredevil, venom, sandman, doctor octopus, green goblin, fantastic four, silver surfer, doctor doom, superman, batman have all had redesigns for their movie adaptations yet they are all instantly recognisable.

there some autobots i can put two and two together and work out,

prime is the only one that stands out as keeping his g1 design. if they can do it for him, why not the other character. They need not have to change into their exact g1 counterparts but at least have some sort of instantly recognisable aspects to them.

just imagine and x-men film trailer where wolverine was featured but you couldn't pick him out, or a spiderman film where you didn't know which one ock was, wouldn't that just piss you off?

if all the designs had strayed from g1, then fine but they managed to adapt prime and to a certain extent bumblebee, all the other transformers (apart from starscream who i know is is jet but it could any of the other jet transformers to be honest), can't be that easily identified.

i, like you am just wondering why?

 

[iLLy_DNA]

I'm chill. No disrespect meant. Now using your point. Take Rogue from the first X-Men movie, you're telling me she was instantly recognizable as Rogue? No leather jacket, no yellow and green costume...not even a white streak in the hair. But in the context of the movie she is recognizable. If you've never knew anything of the first Spider-man movie and only knew the comics and I showed you a picture of the Green Goblin from the movie, you'd know it was him? You wouldn't think it was a power ranger villain? But in the context of the movie you know its him. Same goes for a picture of Sabretooth from the X-Men movie. Outside of the context of the film he looks like a somewhat animal looking dude. To stretch this example a little bit. Even Wolverine isn't instantly recognizable if all you saw was a picture and knew nothing of the movie. Without the claws showing he's just a dark haired guy with stubble in a leather costume. No pointy hair, no mask, no yellow and blue/brown and orange. I think the X-Men movies are a perfect example to show looks are just superficial and don't need to look all that close if the personalities are there.


On the other hand, if I showed you a picture of all the robots from the movie lined up and asked you to point out Megatron, you'd be able to do so. Same with Bumblebee, Starscream, Jazz, and Ratchet to a smaller extent. In the context of the movie they are perfectly recognizable.

 

[Super78]

I can accept different designs for the other characters, but why in the hell was Megatron so drastically changed from his G1 design?? If they could make Prime recognizable to his original look, why not Megs???

I'm not saying that he had to be a gun, I can accept that he isn't. Maybe its just his Cybertronian form that's just over the top, I don't know.

Hopefully, Megatron will look a little more like G1 Megs for the sequel.

 

[nosebleed.]

I'm chill. No disrespect meant. Now using your point. Take Rogue from the first X-Men movie, you're telling me she was instantly recognizable as Rogue? No leather jacket, no yellow and green costume...not even a white streak in the hair. But in the context of the movie she is recognizable. If you've never knew anything of the first Spider-man movie and only knew the comics and I showed you a picture of the Green Goblin from the movie, you'd know it was him? You wouldn't think it was a power ranger villain? But in the context of the movie you know its him. Same goes for a picture of Sabretooth from the X-Men movie. Outside of the context of the film he looks like a somewhat animal looking dude. To stretch this example a little bit. Even Wolverine isn't instantly recognizable if all you saw was a picture and knew nothing of the movie. Without the claws showing he's just a dark haired guy with stubble in a leather costume. No pointy hair, no mask, no yellow and blue/brown and orange. I think the X-Men movies are a perfect example to show looks are just superficial and don't need to look all that close if the personalities are there.

Yes...but humans can change clothes. Transformers (for the most part) do not change their robot appearance. Maybe in the context of the movie they will...or are able to...but that's just another topic I'd have issues with.

On the other hand, if I showed you a picture of all the robots from the movie lined up and asked you to point out Megatron, you'd be able to do so. Same with Bumblebee, Starscream, Jazz, and Ratchet to a smaller extent. In the context of the movie they are perfectly recognizable.

I SERIOUSLY doubt you would be right. If they were black and white I don't think you would. I'm sure that people would recognize Ironhide as Megatron moreso than what they have as Megatron right now. Colors alone would make Bumblebee recognizable. Jazz looks somewhat like his G1 self compared to the other bots (but not the same color). How do you explain the rest??

 

[November Rain]

I'm chill. No disrespect meant. Now using your point. Take Rogue from the first X-Men movie, you're telling me she was instantly recognizable as Rogue? No leather jacket, no yellow and green costume...not even a white streak in the hair. But in the context of the movie she is recognizable. If you've never knew anything of the first Spider-man movie and only knew the comics and I showed you a picture of the Green Goblin from the movie, you'd know it was him? You wouldn't think it was a power ranger villain? But in the context of the movie you know its him. Same goes for a picture of Sabretooth from the X-Men movie. Outside of the context of the film he looks like a somewhat animal looking dude. To stretch this example a little bit. Even Wolverine isn't instantly recognizable if all you saw was a picture and knew nothing of the movie. Without the claws showing he's just a dark haired guy with stubble in a leather costume. No pointy hair, no mask, no yellow and blue/brown and orange. I think the X-Men movies are a perfect example to show looks are just superficial and don't need to look all that close if the personalities are there.


On the other hand, if I showed you a picture of all the robots from the movie lined up and asked you to point out Megatron, you'd be able to do so. Same with Bumblebee, Starscream, Jazz, and Ratchet to a smaller extent. In the context of the movie they are perfectly recognizable.

rogue is recognisable as a fan from her first scene when you see her taking out bobby.

even so, i could always use rogue from x2 when she does get her streak.

wolverine does have realistic spiky hair

if the goblin was on a glider, i could put two and two together and probably say what he was if i wasn't aware of his design before hand, that one is more tricky.

the thing with the x-men is although they don't share the same uniform, they still keep characteristics that are recofnisable from the source material

wolverine, storm, beast, nightcrawler, mystique, storm, angel, rogue, professor xavier, magneto, cyclops, juggernaut and collusos all have at least some aspects that are reminiscent to their comic book original designs.

if you were to line up all the transformers in this film and ask people (average joe) to pick out optimus prime, they'd be able to do so, if you asked them to pick out megatron, they'd be a lil more stuck.

the reason for this is because he has no instantly recognisable traits to the original and there's no real need for it.

 

[DorkyFresh]

if you were to line up all the transformers in this film and ask people (average joe) to pick out optimus prime, they'd be able to do so, if you asked them to pick out megatron, they'd be a lil more stuck.

to be fair...the "average joe" probably doesn't even know who Megatron is. i've shown the trailer for Transformers to a couple of my friends who are pushing 30 and they don't know remember any of the TF's names. only Prime's and 1 of them didn't even know that.

 

[nosebleed.]

to be fair...the "average joe" probably doesn't even know who Megatron is. i've shown the trailer for Transformers to a couple of my friends who are pushing 30 and they don't know remember any of the TF's names. only Prime's and 1 of them didn't even know that.

That's because you hang out with a bunch of potheads who've lost their memory of all things cool.

 

[DorkyFresh]

the 2 guys i was referring to are in the Navy right now...so they can't smoke...



...OOOOOOO!!!!!

 

[November Rain]

transformers only really appeals to a single generation of folk, anyone really between

27-21 will really get it,

for everyone else, it was either too late or too early.

i find it odd they don't remember the main antagonist of any cartoon show. I pretty much remember all of them of the era i'm in.

 

[nosebleed.]

transformers only really appeals to a single generation of folk, anyone really between

27-21 will really get it,

for everyone else, it was either too late or too early.

i find it odd they don't remember the main antagonist of any cartoon show. I pretty much remember all of them of the era i'm in.

Extend that age range to maybe around 32-33 because kids would've been around 10 when Transformers first came out.

 

[mMark]

m 33 and I used to save all my pocket money to get optimus prime and megatron...

 

[DorkyFresh]

i find it odd they don't remember the main antagonist of any cartoon show. I pretty much remember all of them of the era i'm in.

you're not the "average joe". the "average joe" doesn't come to Superherohype...hehe

 

[November Rain]

this has nothing to do with being a superhero fan.

there are certain pieces of pop culture people just pick up.

he-man, turtles, transformers, thundercats

these were cartoons of an era, general info on them is in pop culture.

just saying skeletor and mum-ra gets a certain reaction from people of a genre jsut like if you say pickachu and tinkywinky, it captures another generation.

 

[DorkyFresh]

if you're posting on these boards then you're bound to be familiar with parts of other franchises. most people on here know who Prime and Megatron are because their interests are within the same genre that Transformers is (sci fi/fantasy). when you say "average joe" then it automatically excludes fans of the TF series. they might hear "Megatron" and automatically think of Transformers but that doesn't necessarily know which Transformer he is. to the average joe...Megatron's name sound like any generic TF name like Interconnector, Ultrazon, Annihilator, etc.

my point is...the "average joe" doesn't know much about Transformers. so it's kinda unfair to ask the "average joe" to pick out a character, they know nothing about out of ANY line up, let alone THIS movie's line up.

 

[November Rain]

the average joe could sing the transformers theme tune, I have average joes in my office that i have shown the trailer and have no idea where megatron is.

all they keep asking me is why bumblebee isn't a beetle (although they don't always remember his name, they recognise the character) and where is megatron?

these are people who have no real interest in the genre or haven't since they watched it as a child (or maybe saw the beginning sequence again recently due to nostalgia purposes).

so i am aware of the demographic of the average joe within our age range.

 

[November Rain]

to be fair, soundwave is also another famous transformer they keep asking about, i don't even know if he's in the film or not myself to be honest. i'm trying to stay as spoiler free as possible while allowing myself to view only certain released footage.

 

[DorkyFresh]

if they know who Soundwave and Bumblebee are (and especially if they know BB's a Beetle) then they're not average joes...they're casual or occasional fans, but they're still fans none-the-less. average joe's are people who never had a real interest in TF prior to this movie.

 

[CFlash]

to be fair...the "average joe" probably doesn't even know who Megatron is. i've shown the trailer for Transformers to a couple of my friends who are pushing 30 and they don't know remember any of the TF's names. only Prime's and 1 of them didn't even know that.

Your friends are probably of the TMNT generation... the youngers kids. Or they played with Insectaurs and plastic toy soldiers when the rest of The World played with Transformers.

I don't know any cartoon or franchise save for comic books like Spidey that ever inspired someone to do this.

BTW, this is not an old picture. It was taken exactly One year ago by me as I was walking through Spanish Harlem. I don't live there... and was surprised when I saw it.

 

[November Rain]

if they know who Soundwave and Bumblebee are (and especially if they know BB's a Beetle) then they're not average joes...they're casual or occasional fans, but they're still fans none-the-less. average joe's are people who never had a real interest in TF prior to this movie.

whoa, that's like saying an average joe wouldn't know prior to the first movie who spiderman was?

it's in pop culture, t-shirts are sold with the decepticon and autobot logos.

my sister isn't a fan of transformers but she knows who optimus prime and megatron are, so does my girlfriend.

that's like sayig you have to be a casual or occasional fan of the spice girls to recognise one of their songs?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Your friends are probably of the TMNT generation... the youngers kids. Or they played with Insectaurs and plastic toy soldiers when the rest of The World played with Transformers.

i consider them to be very much average joes. they're in the Navy, big sports freaks and both of them are pushing 30. i don't know exactly how much they know about TFs but one of them used to play with the toys for a lil' while and the other one only watched the 86 movie (which he said he liked but doesn't remember most of it). when i showed them the trailer both of them recognized Prime but one of them said in his exact words "that's that one main guy right?" the other guy knew who Megatron was but didn't know his name or what he looked like. he just remembered that "the leader of the bad guys turned into a gun". i asked them BOTH if they ever heard of Bumblebee or Starscream. one of them said they remember Bumblebee's NAME but not who he was and the other one had no clue what i'm talking about.

I don't know any cartoon or franchise save for comic books like Spidey that ever inspired someone to do this.

what does that have to do with the "average joe"? whoever did that is obviously a fan of the series.

 

[November Rain]

knowing what a character looks like from memory and being alble to spot them when highlighted on the big screen can be considered different things.

i'm sure the majority of optimus prime fans would call call him the 'red and blue leader one that transformed into a truck'

which to me is as vague as the megatron description, yet they would instantly recall their memories of him during sequences from the trailer but there are no memories to latch onto when given off shots of megatron.

if I as a fan only know it's megatron because i'm aware of his design, how are others with vaguer recollections going to be able to manage it.

but i guess you're saying they won't remember him anyway, which i sicerely doubt, especially with correct prompting.

 

[DorkyFresh]

whoa, that's like saying an average joe wouldn't know prior to the first movie who spiderman was?

no it's not...you're putting words in my mouth. besides...Spider-Man is WAY more popular than Transformers (for now) and has been around much longer.

it's in pop culture, t-shirts are sold with the decepticon and autobot logos.

right, but if you were in front of Hot Topic in the mall and started asking random people what Transformer is on the shirt...unless it's Prime or Megatron, chances are most of them won't know.

my sister isn't a fan of transformers but she knows who optimus prime and megatron are, so does my girlfriend.

yeah but they probably know them through you. would you be willing to bet they would know who Prime and Megatron were w/out your influence? in other words, if you didn't exist...would they even be interested in Transformers?

that's like sayig you have to be a casual or occasional fan of the spice girls to recognise one of their songs?

once again putting words in my mouth. you're changing the subject...the subject is TRANSFORMERS, not Spider-Man or Spice Girls. you're comparing 2 totally different things again....remembering a Spice Girls song (more recent audio) doesn't even come close to remembering what Soundwave looks like (20 year old visuals).

 

[mMark]

look, starscream came to earth long before bumblebee.

 

[DorkyFresh]

but i guess you're saying they won't remember him anyway

i fully agree that most of the TF's don't resemble their cartoon versions but what i was saying is that asking the average joe or average movie-goer to match them up (when most of them don't know much about TFs period) is an unfair argument imo.