Transformers Transformers is not Toy Story

[November Rain]

if that's the case, why bother making any of them reminiscent of their previous designs, why not start from scratch like beast wars did?

 

[DorkyFresh]

i dunno....the designs weren't my decision. i fully believe that if they made Prime and Jazz (hell even Starscream) as recognizable as they are then could've done the same with the rest. hopefully they'll take a hint and do that for the sequel...

 

[November Rain]

no it's not...you're putting words in my mouth. besides...Spider-Man is WAY more popular than Transformers (for now) and has been around much longer.

But again, it's only popular because you believe it to be. An average joe still wouldn't know about villains such as sandman, venom or maybe even green goblin.

right, but if you were in front of Hot Topic in the mall and started asking random people what Transformer is on the shirt...unless it's Prime or Megatron, chances are most of them won't know.

They may not know him by name but they would say something along the lines of this

'isn't that guy the leader of the transformers, used to transform into a gun'
#
and to be honest, that would be acceptible. Again we are talking about the demographic that grew up with this, which ideally along with young children is the target audience.

yeah but they probably know them through you. would you be willing to bet they would know who Prime and Megatron were w/out your influence? in other words, if you didn't exist...would they even be interested in Transformers?

Dude, i don't sit at work talking about transformers, that's what the hype is for. I was seen watching the trailer and they were intruiged and i sent them the link and that fueled their discussion. I'm not even an avid transformers fan, merely a child who grew up with it

once again putting words in my mouth. you're changing the subject...the subject is TRANSFORMERS, not Spider-Man or Spice Girls. you're comparing 2 totally different things again....remembering a Spice Girls song (more recent audio) doesn't even come close to remembering what Soundwave looks like (20 year old visuals).

the subject is that you don't think that megatron is as iconic as the majority of us feel his is, or other transformers.

even though they are iconic enough to be used as joke references in popular shows like simpsons, family guy, futurama and south park.

you could make exactly the same argument about the turtles and how they should have been redesigned for their recent films because the average joe wouldn't know about them but for people who grew up with them, based on mask colours and weapons, they are all instantly recognisable and that's what attracts old school viewers back into the cinema to relive aspects of their childhoods for a few hours.


honestly, ask more people in your demographic, i've got plenty of random friends that know i'm into comics and ask me all sorts of questions on nostalgia from the 80s and 90s cartoons and their recent film developments. You'd be surprised how much info people take on board.

 

[November Rain]

i dunno....the designs weren't my decision. i fully believe that if they made Prime and Jazz (hell even Starscream) as recognizable as they are then could've done the same with the rest. hopefully they'll take a hint and do that for the sequel...

well we are on the same page length. YOu make out as if the designs are somewhat irrevelant in trying to capture the essence of some characters.

 

[DorkyFresh]

But again, it's only popular because you believe it to be. An average joe still wouldn't know about villains such as sandman, venom or maybe even green goblin.

exactly...and if you're saying the average joe wouldn't know about Green Goblin from a series as popular as Spider-Man is, then what makes you think the average joe would know about Megatron from the less popular Transformers series?

the subject is that you don't think that megatron is as iconic as the majority of us feel his is, or other transformers.

i think Megatron is VERY iconic...but i don't think Megatron is so iconic that people who DON'T keep track of Transformers would be able to tell you his name or what he looks like w/out some kind of reminder.

even though they are iconic enough to be used as joke references in popular shows like simpsons, family guy, futurama and south park.

how many average joes who watch those shows would get those references? unless they had a significant interest in TF they probably wouldn't connect "Megatron" with "the leader of the decepticons that transforms into a gun." they'd probably be thinking "what the hell is a megatron?" same way a lot of average joes would've probably thought "what the hell is the green goblin?" before Spidey's movie came out.

for people who grew up with them, based on mask colours and weapons, they are all instantly recognisable and that's what attracts old school viewers back into the cinema to relive aspects of their childhoods for a few hours.

i fully agree w/that. i wasn't arguing that they should've changed anyone's look, i was just saying that the characters of TFs aren't as well known to non-fans as a lot of fans think they are.

honestly, ask more people in your demographic, i've got plenty of random friends that know i'm into comics and ask me all sorts of questions on nostalgia from the 80s and 90s cartoons and their recent film developments. You'd be surprised how much info people take on board.

it's kinda funny because i was VERY surprised to hear that the 2 guys i showed the trailer to didn't even remember Megatron that well...especially since they were at the perfect age to get involved with TFs back in the 80's. i looked at both of them like they were crazy....but then when they ask me about sports they look at me like i'm crazy cuz i don't watch sports, hehe.

 

[DorkyFresh]

well we are on the same page length. YOu make out as if the designs are somewhat irrevelant in trying to capture the essence of some characters.

no, it's not that way at all. if it were up to me...each character would look instantly recognizable when compared to their G1 counterparts (though i still like the redesigns). i just don't think the people who aren't into TF would know who Megatron is the way people who are not into Batman would know who Joker is. TF hasn't reached that level...yet...

 

[AyeCapn]

I still maintain that given the circumstances of the movie they had to pick their earth forms quickly and never had a chance to "get it right". For the sequel, I would love the writers to put in a bit where it is revealed that the trans-scannng takes a lot of effort. After Megatron is defeated, they have a chance to rest, and tweak up the "busy" designs into something closer to G1.




but they won't

 

[Cth]

Or that it drains a lot of energy.

Which is why Megatron doesn't take one (and why he goes down quick).. he's running on empty so to speak.

BB and Jazz? Not so much of an issue since they're smaller and are more fuel efficient

 

[terry78]

My 61 year old dad knows Megatron, so he's pretty ingrained in pop culture.

 

[thegameq]

if you think this way after reading the posts in this thread then you're not "getting it" either. when you tell people that they're about see a live action Transformers movie, despite the predetermined expections, everyone wants to see something they've never seen before. if they dumbed down these designs to make them more "faithful" then we'd be seeing the same technology we saw with the robots from Star Wars. yes, there might be hundreds of moving/transforming parts with the movie designs but could you imagine a real car transforming into a technologically advanced being with 10 to 15 parts and movements?

Michael Bay might not get Transformers but the people who keep ripping on the experienced artists and animators who came up with the designs for the TFs don't get how movies work.

If by "how movies work" you mean let's take the low road and play it safe as to minimize as much risk as possible, and disguise it under the pretentions of appealing to the general audience, most people on the Hype are very familiar with "how movies work".

Now, we could of course write off any blame towards the ILM artists since we all know they were just doing their jobs. However the imperative they were given and direction this film took clearly shows, the people in charge "don't get it".

 

[thegameq]

since there are a lot of talks over megatron's movie design. here are some good fan art of megatron with great adpatation from the G1 concept.

Nice design!!!

That design is way to blocky and cool looking for Bay's film.

 

[DorkyFresh]

If by "how movies work" you mean let's take the low road and play it safe as to minimize as much risk as possible, and disguise it under the pretentions of appealing to the general audience, most people on the Hype are very familiar with "how movies work".

i was referring to the designs that you were complaining about, not the overall feel of the film. i'm one of the people that wanted this film to be more than what it is...more than meets the eye. but back to the designs...if you think the movie designs were "playing it safe" then you should check the pictures thread from page 1 onward. ENDLESS complaining...when you take a risk on changing the TFs from the classic, blocky look as much as they did then you ARE taking risks...at least with the designs.

Now, we could of course write off any blame towards the ILM artists since we all know they were just doing their jobs. However the imperative they were given and direction this film took clearly shows, the people in charge "don't get it".

it's true that the people in charge are the ones with the last word but it's not just as simple as that. i'm not sure EXACTLY how they came up with the new look but i'm sure as hell that Bay didn't put enough thought into the designs as to tell the concept artists to make them more complex. the designs look far beyond anything Bay is capable of imagining. most of the time, when you have big productions like this...the director has concept artists come up with several different concepts. after that the director starts narrowing the look of the characters/environments but it's still up to the artist to come up with these things. if it weren't for the concept artists, then they'd get nowhere.....w/out the concept artist's wild imaginations then we would've never gotten exaggerated designs and transformations but you're (partially) right when you say the people in charge don't get it. the writers seem like genuine TF fans and wanted to keep the story and characters as close as possible to G1....it's mostly Bay's style of directing that limited the film so much. i have a feeling Spielberg had a big role in the way the TF's themselves turned out.

hopefully a DVD chocked full of special features can clear that up for us...

 

[Danger Mouse]

Extend that age range to maybe around 32-33 because kids would've been around 10 when Transformers first came out.

That's me.

And I agree with the point that if they can make major redesign of OP and yet retain his recognisable features, I can't see why they can't do the same for the others, more so to Megatron.

However, as it was pointed out above, the only explanation I could accept was that Megatron was immobilised before he could scan anything and when he finally thaws out he'd be too busy rampaging to even be concerned about hiding his identity. Perhaps at the end of the movie he'd find the wisdom to scan and adapt to make way for a sequel.

 

[terry78]

^Considering that his main alt form was a gun before he became a tank, I doubt he was too concerned period about hiding his identity.

 

[November Rain]

although a scan for purely offensive reasons rather than seductive reasons may also be applicable.

he's not one to hide, it's purely a transformation for destructive purpose.

 

[November Rain]

exactly...and if you're saying the average joe wouldn't know about Green Goblin from a series as popular as Spider-Man is, then what makes you think the average joe would know about Megatron from the less popular Transformers series?

The thing with norman osborne is that he was out of the loop for an incredibly long time and during this time, was when ock really plastered the message home by appearing in generally more comics, cartoon shows and was referenced more.

It's understandable to think that people who grew up with spidey when a certain villain was supposed dead won't really see him as being as important as those who were around at the time of his demise. It's only from the availability of back issues and his reincarnation and his recent film that norman has returned to limelight.

i think Megatron is VERY iconic...but i don't think Megatron is so iconic that people who DON'T keep track of Transformers would be able to tell you his name or what he looks like w/out some kind of reminder.

I think a simple on screen prompt would be enough for this. The details would be faint but then again certain design characteristic would bring it all back. Design, voice, cannon located on arm. lil things that would help get the memory back.

If you don't believe he would be missed, then why not start from scratch with another decepticon leader and have complete creative license over teh character? For me, using characters of similar names means you are trying to cross certain gap and relate one to the other and even if this is done with motivation, it should also be done with looks. Kinda like how the majority of ultimate characters share some characteristics and looks to their original counterparts.

how many average joes who watch those shows would get those references? unless they had a significant interest in TF they probably wouldn't connect "Megatron" with "the leader of the decepticons that transforms into a gun." they'd probably be thinking "what the hell is a megatron?" same way a lot of average joes would've probably thought "what the hell is the green goblin?" before Spidey's movie came out.

all my friends and people i watch family guy with get the references without requiring information from myself.

the thing is the green goblin died in the comics a long time ago and never had as much of a telivision appearance as megatron, with him featuring strongly as possibly one of the most reoccuring villains of the 80s along with possibly shredder in the 90s.

green goblin certainly hasn't had the same television exposure or cartoon fame as megatron has, green goglin i would say is a more comic specific villain and thus influenced far less people.

i fully agree w/that. i wasn't arguing that they should've changed anyone's look, i was just saying that the characters of TFs aren't as well known to non-fans as a lot of fans think they are.

I understand that people outside of a certain age bracket woul dhave completely missed the whole transformers age, but amongst that generation, i feel that certain transformers and their quirky ways have stood the test of time. i Mean i haven't watched an ep of transformers since back in the day and i watched the movie again like five years ago. It's not like i know the names of all the dino bots and the constructicons, i just remember some basics. Probably think some others might as well.

it's kinda funny because i was VERY surprised to hear that the 2 guys i showed the trailer to didn't even remember Megatron that well...especially since they were at the perfect age to get involved with TFs back in the 80's. i looked at both of them like they were crazy....but then when they ask me about sports they look at me like i'm crazy cuz i don't watch sports, hehe.

here's the thing, would they have remembered IF the megatron design was more similar to the original design because there are plenty of things i don't remember until prompted.

I guess my points are those who do remember will wonder where he is and those who don't won't have the opportunity to jogg their memory with a similar updated design like optimus prime has.

BUT i can understand the logic of he hasn't had time to scan.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

The 135 min runtime is it official ?

 

[nosebleed.]

it's kinda funny because i was VERY surprised to hear that the 2 guys i showed the trailer to didn't even remember Megatron that well...especially since they were at the perfect age to get involved with TFs back in the 80's. i looked at both of them like they were crazy....but then when they ask me about sports they look at me like i'm crazy cuz i don't watch sports, hehe.

here's the thing, would they have remembered IF the megatron design was more similar to the original design because there are plenty of things i don't remember until prompted.

I guess my points are those who do remember will wonder where he is and those who don't won't have the opportunity to jogg their memory with a similar updated design like optimus prime has.

Good point November. Dorky, show them pics of G1 Megs in robot and alt-mode and see if they remember him then.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i try next time i see them...but i remember telling the guys that Megatron looks a whole lot different and he didn't even know who i was talking about. the other guy says he remembers that "Megatron" was the leader of the bad guys that turned into a gun but he said he didn't remember what he looked like.

both of them weren't all that interested...they liked the trailer but when i started getting into details and the history one guy became quiet and the other dude started steering the conversation a different way.

 

[DaneShobe]

Anyone saying that more recognizable G1 designs needs to check out this guy's page...

http://timshinn73.deviantart.com/gallery/

 

[November Rain]

now that's good head

 

[November Rain]

i try next time i see them...but i remember telling the guys that Megatron looks a whole lot different and he didn't even know who i was talking about. the other guy says he remembers that "Megatron" was the leader of the bad guys that turned into a gun but he said he didn't remember what he looked like.

both of them weren't all that interested...they liked the trailer but when i started getting into details and the history one guy became quiet and the other dude started steering the conversation a different way.

i'm sure if you lined up a list of decepticons, and asked your friends to point to the leader, most of them would be able to do so regardless of knowing the names of who megatron was or what he actually transformed into.

i've always never talked about these topics with 'outsiders' in great detail, most of them end up outside of their depth and i don't want to come across too nerdy. I just go wikipedia it if you are that interested. Some do, some don't but i never come off looking bad saying that.

 

[DorkyFresh]

i like the face, but the top of the head's throws it off. i actually like the top of movie Meg's head better...looks more regal.

 

[November Rain]

have you got any pics of the new movie head, my pics seem outdated.

 

[CFlash]

i like the face, but the top of the head's throws it off. i actually like the top of movie Meg's head better...looks more regal.

I agree. Face looks great. Top of head, not so much.

I dunno... but I really really cannot stand the idea of Megatron with fangs. If he freakin growls like a monster I'm leaving the theater.