World Truth, Justice, 'all that stuff'?

[MunsonCall]

I watched one of the trailers for Superman Returns where Perry White asks, "Does he still stand for truth, justice, all that stuff?" Hold the presses there Perry, to my recollection, he stands for truth, justice, and the American way. I don't know what kind of motivation or agenda the writers, director, producers have, but I am SORELY disappointed in their cowardace in changing what an American icon Superman has been.

One can still be patriotic without being nationalist. If the execs or somebody at Time Warner or DC thinks that for this movie to do well (especially overseas), we can't say that Superman stands for "the American way", I pledge right now, your movie will do $8.50 worse in America, because I won't see it.

The other way to look at this is that Perry White represents the "liberal mainstream media". (I consider myself a libertarian, and that phrase is starting to get on my nerves, but I digress.) Perry has always been somewhat of an antagonist in the DC universe. This might be him playing true to character, and that's what the writers are using this for. If that's the case, I stand corrected, and I'll gladly see the movie. On the other hand, if that is not the case, I am saddened for the direction DC is taking the heroes I grew up with.

When Superman: The Movie came out in the 70's, this country was in pretty bad shape. The country had come through Vietnam, Watergate, the American economy was out of whack. This country was really questioning what 'the American way' was. Yet somehow Christopher Reeve could look in the camera and say that Superman stands for 'truth, justice, and the American way'. The people behind S:TM knew the ideals the Superman represents, and they weren't afraid to say it.

Some who read this may disagree and please, flame away. This is America, and we're still allowed to do that. But for now, from what I have seen, I'd rather see Superman: The Movie than Superman Returns. SR may have better special effects, but STM has a lot more courage and a lot more soul.

BTW, Other's have picked up on this, too: http://talesofawanderingmind.blogspot.com/2006/06/american-way.html

 

[LostSon88]

Superman no longer belongs to simply America...the Man of Steel is a UNIVERSAL symbol of hope, peace and nobility for billions around the globe.

Superman doesn't belong to the US, he belongs to the world.

Why must he single out a paticular country?

 

[Superman79]

the Man of Steel is a UNIVERSAL symbol of hope, peace and nobility for billions around the globe.

Ironically, those were all the things America symbolized to the world prior to 1992-the present...hence American Way is not just "America", but the values America stood for at it's core.

It could/and likely would be argued differently now given the situation in the world, but that is the base-line of it.

 

[atomicbattery]

Wow.

I just heard a piece on the radio about conservatives on the internet trying to start a boycott of SR, and look what pops up at SHH- a Superman 'fan' (with all of two posts) voicing his outrage over the excision of 'the American way'. What a coincidence.

Don't worry MunsonCall, even if this thread dies I'm sure that O'Reilly or Limbaugh or Coulter (Oh, that's right- you're not conservative, you're a libertarian. Sorry.) will help spread the word on this 'issue'.

Go ahead, boycott 'Superman Returns'. I'll make up for your $8.50.
Several times over.

 

[Jochimus]

Go ahead, boycott 'Superman Returns'. I'll make up for your $8.50.
Several times over.

Now THAT is patriotism without nationalism. Sign me up, sarge.

 

[Fantasyartist]

Personally, apropos of my previous post, i have always had doubts as to what practical use "Truth, Justice and The American Way" mean. The Man of Steel should leave the overt nationalism to marvel characters such as Captain America. Is Superman, thw world's protector or just Uncle Sam's super powered bully boy?

Terry

 

[Malus]

They've excised it for political correctness.
It wasn't politically incorrect for Superman to apologize to the President for his absence when restoring the dome to the Capitol in Superman II.
Superman may "belong to the world" as one poster says, but his allegiance is first and foremost to America. Superman fought the Nazis. He fought all the Axis powers in the pages of Superman and Action Comics. For crying out loud, he even urged Americans to buy war bonds on the cover of Action Comics.
AND - he was CREATED by the sons of JEWISH IMMIGRANTS who were proud Americans to their core.
He is every bit as quintessentially American as Captain America.
This is cowardice on Warner's part. It's politically correct revisionist bullcrap. They could have at least left it in for Western audiences, who know how that sentence ends. Put the abbreviated version in the prints headed to France; who cares? But here in America, where Superman was created, we'll be unconsciously mouthing the end of that sentence.
It's as iconic as "Faster than a speeding bullet" and "Look, up in the sky! etc."

I'm not at all surprised by this, and I'm not bothered enough to boycott the movie. I'll still see it twice today; once with my children and again with my girl.
But it's a sad day when Perry White can't finish that sentence appropriately.

 

[superdad]

Its liberal Hollywood at its finest.

 

[Andy C.]

I've never been that fond of them starting to weed out "The American Way" from the Superman mythos, especially since now in the Post-Crisis continuity, most of his more admirable traits come from his upbringing in the Kent family than his roots on Krypton. Superman is who he is because of embracing and endorsing moral and philosophical stances primarily designated as "American" values. The Red Son and True Brit are prime examples of that (though True Brit was more of a parody than anything else) Superman may "belong to the world now," but first and foremost he's always been viewed as an American figure.

That being said, I think boycotting the movie is a bit much. As unfortunate as it is that the people behind Superman are watering down the character for the sake of not alienating readers/viewers, it's hardly as if he's out burning the flag or helping out terrorists.

 

[thechubbysaint]

If one ignores whatever opinion you may have of present day America, and you look at the core principles the country was founded upon and the success those values/principles have had in influencing other countries to be free and help the down trodden, you will see that the American Way isn't a slight to other countries at all. If anything it should encourage better conduct by us on the international stage in regards to human rights, the downtrodden, and especially in standing up to genocidal evil. The 'American Way' is meant to be inspirational like the founding principles. If other countries are turned off by that, then they may be focusing too much on the controversial actions America has taken and not enough on our humanitarian side.

 

[Malus]

If one ignores whatever opinion you may have of present day America, and you look at the core principles the country was founded upon and the success those values/principles have had in influencing other countries to be free and help the down trodden, you will see that the American Way isn't a slight to other countries at all. If anything it should encourage better conduct by us on the international stage in regards to human rights, the downtrodden, and especially in standing up to genocidal evil. The 'American Way' is meant to be inspirational like the founding principles. If other countries are turned off by that, then they may be focusing too much on the controversial actions America has taken and not enough on our humanitarian side.

WELL SAID!
Pretty much what I was thinking but didn't have the verbal skill to put together. Congrats.

 

[HeroLover]

If the mainstream media were liberal, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.

 

[Robin91939]

I watched one of the trailers for Superman Returns where Perry White asks, "Does he still stand for truth, justice, all that stuff?" Hold the presses there Perry, to my recollection, he stands for truth, justice, and the American way. I don't know what kind of motivation or agenda the writers, director, producers have, but I am SORELY disappointed in their cowardace in changing what an American icon Superman has been.

One can still be patriotic without being nationalist. If the execs or somebody at Time Warner or DC thinks that for this movie to do well (especially overseas), we can't say that Superman stands for "the American way", I pledge right now, your movie will do $8.50 worse in America, because I won't see it.

The other way to look at this is that Perry White represents the "liberal mainstream media". (I consider myself a libertarian, and that phrase is starting to get on my nerves, but I digress.) Perry has always been somewhat of an antagonist in the DC universe. This might be him playing true to character, and that's what the writers are using this for. If that's the case, I stand corrected, and I'll gladly see the movie. On the other hand, if that is not the case, I am saddened for the direction DC is taking the heroes I grew up with.

When Superman: The Movie came out in the 70's, this country was in pretty bad shape. The country had come through Vietnam, Watergate, the American economy was out of whack. This country was really questioning what 'the American way' was. Yet somehow Christopher Reeve could look in the camera and say that Superman stands for 'truth, justice, and the American way'. The people behind S:TM knew the ideals the Superman represents, and they weren't afraid to say it.

Some who read this may disagree and please, flame away. This is America, and we're still allowed to do that. But for now, from what I have seen, I'd rather see Superman: The Movie than Superman Returns. SR may have better special effects, but STM has a lot more courage and a lot more soul.

BTW, Other's have picked up on this, too: http://talesofawanderingmind.blogspot.com/2006/06/american-way.html

Wow, what a waste of time this is. Anyway...all you people that have complained about this haven't seen it in context.

Perry says this AFTER he goes through all the sections of the newspaper.

He says along the lines of:

"Sports- how are they going to get that plane off the field. Photos- Olsen, I want to see pictures of him everywhere. Buisness- how's this going to effect the stock market, long-term short-term? Travel- where'd he go? was he on vacation? Health- Has he gained weight? Fashion- is that a new suit? Politics- does he still stand for truth, justice, all that stuff. Lifestyle...Superman Returns."

The "all that stuff" was a reference to the MANY other ways that they could cram Superman into the Daily Planet. It wasn't just a gloss over to be politically active. Also, how many people would feel comfortable saying to a crowd of people: "Truth, Justice, and the American way"...a little corny and unnatural if you ask me.

I can't believe this bothers people.

-R

 

[Malus]

Bolding in quotes is mine:

Wow, what a waste of time this is. Anyway...all you people that have complained about this haven't seen it in context.

Perry says this AFTER he goes through all the sections of the newspaper.

He says along the lines of:

"Sports- how are they going to get that plane off the field. Photos- Olsen, I want to see pictures of him everywhere. Buisness- how's this going to effect the stock market, long-term short-term? Travel- where'd he go? was he on vacation? Health- Has he gained weight? Fashion- is that a new suit? Politics- does he still stand for truth, justice, all that stuff. Lifestyle...Superman Returns."

The "all that stuff" was a reference to the MANY other ways that they could cram Superman into the Daily Planet. It wasn't just a gloss over to be politically active. Also, how many people would feel comfortable saying to a crowd of people: "Truth, Justice, and the American way"...a little corny and unnatural if you ask me.

I can't believe this bothers people.

-R

The fact that he omits "American way" after just having categorized the potential query under "politics" makes it all the more obvious.

Would it really have been any cornier than that awkward take on "Look, it's a bird, it's a plane..." by Lois, Perry and Jimmy that comes a bit later?

Just look at all the American flags seen throughout Spiderman 1 & 2. Spidey's climactic leap at the close of SM1 is from an American flagpole. Practically every house on Aunt May's street is flying the stars & stripes. Now there's some overt patriotism.
Yet it would have felt far more appropriate in a Superman movie. Superman is the original American superhero. In fact superheroes themselves -indeed, comics- were something uniquely American in the first place.

You "can't believe" this bothers anyone?
Many would call me a big bleeding heart liberal. And I'm certainly no conservative or Republican. I oppose what we're doing overseas and how we're handling the terror threat, I'm disgusted by the all-out assault on our rights and I think FOX News is a right-wing propagandist joke.
And yet this whitewashing of the red, white & blue from Superman bothers me, yes. It bothers me plenty.

Superman saves the world.
But Superman is an American.
And you bet he stands for the American Way.
That's what his creators intended.

 

[Frosty81]

Superman no longer belongs to simply America...the Man of Steel is a UNIVERSAL symbol of hope, peace and nobility for billions around the globe.

Superman doesn't belong to the US, he belongs to the world.

Why must he single out a paticular country?

Thank you, Sir. Kal-El was not sent to the United States. He was sent to the planet Earth. I am glad the movie represented his concern for people in need all over the world.

Batman is the protector of a city. Superman is the protector of a planet. Not one country or another. He transcends our political boundaries. Some people just need to deal with that fact.

- Chris

 

[Superman79]

Bolding in quotes is mine:


The fact that he omits "American way" after just having categorized the potential query under "politics" makes it all the more obvious.

Would it really have been any cornier than that awkward take on "Look, it's a bird, it's a plane..." by Lois, Perry and Jimmy that comes a bit later?

Just look at all the American flags seen throughout Spiderman 1 & 2. Spidey's climactic leap at the close of SM1 is from an American flagpole. Practically every house on Aunt May's street is flying the stars & stripes. Now there's some overt patriotism.
Yet it would have felt far more appropriate in a Superman movie. Superman is the original American superhero. In fact superheroes themselves -indeed, comics- were something uniquely American in the first place.

You "can't believe" this bothers anyone?
Many would call me a big bleeding heart liberal. And I'm certainly no conservative or Republican. I oppose what we're doing overseas and how we're handling the terror threat, I'm disgusted by the all-out assault on our rights and I think FOX News is a right-wing propagandist joke.
And yet this whitewashing of the red, white & blue from Superman bothers me, yes. It bothers me plenty.

Superman saves the world.
But Superman is an American.
And you bet he stands for the American Way.
That's what his creators intended.

Attaboy

The American Way is not the policies by any means. It is the spirit of what this country was founded on. Freedom, fellowship, brotherhood, and most importantly opportunity. America is still a place with more opportunites than anywhere else in the world (if you don't believe that, I have 11 million illegal and some 15+ million legal immigrants who would tell you otherwise).

That is what Superman stands for, not oil, not republicans, not democrats, not liberal or conservative, but Hope, Opportunity, Freedom...these are things that America has embodied for years and despite current issues will embody for years more.

Truth, Justice, and the American Way is not inane, it's idealistic optimism, which is exactly what Superman is...that's why I think it's still appropriate.

BTW- The saying is still used...I just bought a Superman shirt that had it written on the front.

 

[Malus]

Thank you, Sir. Kal-El was not sent to the United States. He was sent to the planet Earth.

I don't think so.
In Superman Returns, it's apparent that Kal was able to program his Kryptonian vessel to land in Smallville, just within sight of his mother's kitchen window, so it's a pretty sure bet that Jor-El did likewise, aiming baby Kal directly for America's heartland, where he was most likely to receive the type of moral upbringing his parents would have wanted.
Jor-El knew all about Earth, so it only makes sense that he would have purposefully sent Kal to Smallville. And now this movie somewhat confirms it.
But regardless, Kal has chosen to remain an American. He fought the Axis powers and has certainly pledged his allegiance to this Great Nation.
The history of Superman (comics, tv & movies) is filled with American patriotism. There's no getting around that fact.
Kal certainly takes care of the rest of the world.
But he calls America home.

 

[Jochimus]

But regardless, Kal has chosen to remain an American. He fought the Axis powers and has certainly pledged his allegiance to this Great Nation.

The only problem with that concept is that, in the most clinical sense, Superman IS a weapon of mass destruction. An overgrown Boy Scout he may be, but this particular Boy Scout shoots lasers out his eyes, flies faster than ICBMs and can level skyscrapers with his bare hands like they're made outta toothpicks.

Instead of stockpiling nukes, every country in the world would send Lex's coffers through the roof trying to get their hands on synthetic Kryptonite, even this one: the U.S. government's not going to allow Superman to remain a free man without having some kind of 'special measures' in place. And if you were the leader of a global superpower and all of a sudden some other global superpower had a fully corporeal godlike being at their beck and call, would you take that sitting down? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Superman is an American, but he's also an immigrant and his responsibilies are much larger than allegiance to one country alone. There's a reason why this guy is loved the world over, not just here in the States.

 

[Malus]

Superman is an American, but he's also an immigrant and his responsibilies are much larger than allegiance to one country alone. There's a reason why this guy is loved the world over, not just here in the States.

Very true. If Superman were real, he'd be mopping up Al Quieda to protect and preserve civilization, just as he did with the filthy Nazis.

And I wouldn't want anyone to think I meant to disparage any civilized Superman-loving nation. It's ideals such as those Superman symbolizes (which are certainly not exclusive to America) that provide our best hope for preserving peace on this planet.

 

[thechubbysaint]

From the writers:

Dan: "I don't think 'the American way' means what it meant in 1945." Mike: "He's not just for Metropolis and not just for America." Dan: "He's an alien, from Krypton; he has come to Earth to be kind of a savior for this world, not our country . . . And he has no papers." Mike: "What would happen with the immigration laws we have now?" Dan: "I'd like to see someone kick him out!"

http://www.wwtdd.com/index.php?type=one&i=1085

 

[Andy C.]

Ugh.

The whole "he's an alien so he can't be an American" doesn't hold water. If anything, it further enforces a pro-American sentiment (the ultimate immigrant in a country founded on immigrants) and as I've said before, his upbringing in the American heartland is every bit as important to the development of Clark Kent as anything Jor-El taught him. Overlooking that influence on his life is ignoring one of the basic and vital parts of the character.

And the argument that "The American Way" is worse off now than it was in the days of racial segregation, McCarthyism, censorship, and red scares is flat-out ridiculous.

 

[Malus]

You know, I'm thinking the chances of a Captain America film coming to theaters anytime in the near future are about zero.

 

[Jochimus]

You know, I'm thinking the chances of a Captain America film coming to theaters anytime in the near future are about zero.

Captain America would probably work if they stuck the character to the principles that he was raised to believe America was founded on, as opposed to just thawing him out after 75 years and having him say, "Golly, things sure have changed, but I'm still at your command, Uncle Sam!" There's conflict in there that would be an eye-opener to a lot of people where this genre of movie is concerned, and that doesn't even cover the culture shock Steve would probably get from waking up in a time of the Internet, pop music, and the gay rights movement, among other things - what Steve Rogers believes in is not necessarily what his government believes in anymore (evidenced by recent story arcs like Civil War), and how he would deal with that would define what kind of hero he is.

And please don't get me started on whether a Cap movie should be set in WWII or the present day. You can't NOT address the idea of him being displaced for decades. That's too good a story to pass up.

The American way is more than just words. That's why it makes no sense to me to boycott a movie simply because they took the words out of the script; it doesn't change who Superman is to the rest of the world. They know.

 

[Malus]

And please don't get me started on whether a Cap movie should be set in WWII or the present day. You can't NOT address the idea of him being displaced for decades. That's too good a story to pass up.

Agreed. Setting the first 20 minutes in WWII and then (by whatever means) having Steve wake up in the present would be just about perfect.
I hope that's what they have in mind, if indeed they have anything in mind.

The American way is more than just words. That's why it makes no sense to me to boycott a movie simply because they took the words out of the script; it doesn't change who Superman is to the rest of the world. They know.

I took a group of 6 to see it last night, and I'll see it at least once more. The "American way" omission is a marginal thing, just a sign of the times. And you're right. The rest of the world knows.

 

[FlameHead]

Wow, I can't believe this conversation is being had.

The line was supposed to be funny.