Superman Returns "Does he still stand for Truth, Justice, All of that..."

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

remember that a movie is still a product, and it is a product which is being sold to a market, and it is being sold to that market AT THIS TIME. Looking at the big picture has nothing to do with it. 50 years down the road, this will still be just a movie.

in order for the movie to be accessible to as many markets as possible, being PC is important. Being politically correct will help to avoid pushing cetain sectors of the market away. It's that simple. What the production team has done by eliminating 'TAW' from the superman slogan, is make the movie more appealing (subconciously) to those who have differing opinions on the state of the world.

simply put, it's business, WB can make more money by being politically correct

Agreed.

 

[explode7]

Super Freak knows his *****. Great post dude

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Super Freak knows his *****. Great post dude

Got that right!

 

[supzfan]

Man, oh man, have we slipped that much? "Truth, Justice and The American Way" used to be something to be proud of. This is EXACTLY what Superman stood for. Suddenly we have to worry about being politically correct? If Big Blue can't stand for these things then he can't stand for anything as far as I'm concerned. Just because those creeps in Washington don't believe in such "quaint" notions doesn't mean our greatest hero shouldn't also. If I was making the movie I'd use the same opening as the old TV series with George Reeves. There's no reason why a noble and optimsitic view of America shouldn't be promoted over the cruelty and meanness that seems to dominate. When the creeps and A-holes that run our lives make us feel ashamed of Truth, Jutice and the Ameican Way then they've won. Pretty sad.

 

[Superfreak]

Man, oh man, have we slipped that much? "Truth, Justice and The American Way" used to be something to be proud of. This is EXACTLY what Superman stood for. Suddenly we have to worry about being politically correct? If Big Blue can't stand for these things then he can't stand for anything as far as I'm concerned. Just because those creeps in Washington don't believe in such "quaint" notions doesn't mean our greatest hero shouldn't also. If I was making the movie I'd use the same opening as the old TV series with George Reeves. There's no reason why a noble and optimsitic view of America shouldn't be promoted over the cruelty and meanness that seems to dominate. When the creeps and A-holes that run our lives make us feel ashamed of Truth, Jutice and the Ameican Way then they've won. Pretty sad.

you're not thinking globally my friend. Sure, if the movie was released only in the US, use the slogan, go for it, I don't care. But seeing that this film has a worldwide, international release, you don't think it's wise to market the film to the planet, rather than 3% of it?


really, what one should be ashamed of is not the concept of political correctness that this discussion is covering, but that money is the central driving force behind everything.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

The line, "Truth, justice and the American way" was concieved at a different time, when patriotism was strong, and the majority strongly trusted their government. Just as the physical look of Superman has evolved with the times, so have other elements of the character. Even in the 1978 movie, Lois mocks Superman for mentioning 'the American way'.

Whether you personally think Superman should stand for 'the American way' - and let's face it, it's never been defined exactly what Superman means by that - it's a potentially troublesome line. Singer doesn't want people in the cinema thinking about what the American way is, and the unavoidable jokes in the cinema which would follow, while they should be following the story.

 

[supzfan]

So does this mean that a movie like "SupermanII" couldn't be made today? You know the one with that goofy, patriotic scene of Superman restoring the flag to the White House and the cornball speech to the President at the end? I think the world can live with Superman being an American hero as well a global one. Just like they can accept our music, fast food and other movies. I guess that's why I'm writing messages here on the board and not filming the sequel. Geesh!

 

[C. Lee]

Ok... I apologize, but:



Don't let others tell you how to do your job. I was sticking up for you.

Apology accepted.

I don't let people do that.

If you want to stick up for me...please do it civilly.

 

[Superfreak]

So does this mean that a movie like "SupermanII" couldn't be made today? You know the one with that goofy, patriotic scene of Superman restoring the flag to the White House and the cornball speech to the President at the end? I think the world can live with Superman being an American hero as well a global one. Just like they can accept our music, fast food and other movies. I guess that's why I'm writing messages here on the board and not filming the sequel. Geesh!

you're treading a very thin line here. It's just the tone of you post, especially the 'they accept this this and this, why not this?' Just remember that when things are imported and exported, they are always changed to fit the ideology, and the cultural make up of the country to which it is being exported. Example, European McDonalds have beer, US McDonalds doesn't. Are you gonna harp on MCDs for changing their menu to suit the tastes, laws and customs of other countries? (that's rhetorical)

but, the momments you described are temporal momments, where Superman is restoring a symbol to it's rightful spot. Other examples of this wiil be or are: Superman returning the globe on the daily planet, Superman putting the russian space station back in orbit in SIV etc. These events don't change the definition of the character, but still show his love for humanity. But the slogan is more defining than those example events. The slogan is an overiding element in the definition of the character. To make superman marketable to the rest of the world, it's more profitable to be PC, see my other post.

 

[The Caped Knight]

superman is for the whole world. yes he is still an american icon. he is proud to be american. but he is there for all of us. so i think this is better.

Well said .

 

[Bishop2]

Remember in the beginning of Superman IV when Superman saved the Soviet space station from falling out of orbit, then spoke to the cosmonauts in Russian? Probably the only good scene in that whole movie.

Of course, at that point in history, the "American Way" would've been to let them die and to never, ever speak a communist language.

Screw the American Way. Superman is the world's hero.

 

[supzfan]

Of course he's for the whole world and that's how he should be. But the spaceship didn't land in Japan or Croatia or Canada. The guy was raised in Kansas and reflects his Midwest upbringing. That's what gives him his moral compass, his sense of right and wrong. Everything you guys are saying is totally logical and practical. But I wouldn't dismiss the symbolic power of Superman flying with that American flag so quickly as some passing, trivial moment on the same par with holding the Planet Globe or rescuing the Russian sattelite or righting the Leaning Tower Of Pisa. The iconic reference was done on purpose to elicit a reaction from the audience, whatever country they were in. I recall another simliar scene from "SupermanIV" when he re-plants the American flag on the moon. There's a dramatic reason for this as it shows Superman's patriotism and further fleshes out his values. Even his costume is based on the American flag.

 

[C. Lee]

Of course he's for the whole world and that's how he should be. But the spaceship didn't land in Japan or Croatia or Canada. The guy was raised in Kansas and reflects his Midwest upbringing. That's what gives him his moral compass, his sense of right and wrong. Everything you guys are saying is totally logical and practical. But I wouldn't dismiss the symbolic power of Superman flying with that American flag so quickly as some passing, trivial moment on the same par with holding the Planet Globe or rescuing the Russian sattelite or righting the Leaning Tower Of Pisa. The iconic reference was done on purpose to elicit a reaction from the audience, whatever country they were in. I recall another simliar scene from "SupermanIV" when he re-plants the American flag on the moon. There's a dramatic reason for this as it shows Superman's patriotism and further fleshes out his values. Even his costume is based on the American flag.

Just because 2 out of 3 colors is the same...doesn't mean that it is based upon the American flag. By that way of thinking...Superman's suit is based upon the English flag(Red-White-Blue)...and the Brazillian flag (Blue-Yellow-White)....how many others does it represent?

Yes...Superman was raised in Kansas and has a "Midwest" upbringing.....so he should stand for "Truth, Justice, and the Midwest American" way......because the New York way is different from the Miami way which is different from the Seattle way which is different from the Charleston way which is different from the Las Vegas way which is different from......so on and so on....which AMERICAN way should he represent?

 

[skruloos]

Even his costume is based on the American flag.

Where did you read this from? His colors, according to the creators, were chosen simply because they were bright primary colors. And last I checked, Superman's suit was Red, Yellow and Blue. Not Red, White and Blue.

 

[Venom71]

Truth,Jutice & Peace For All Mankind

 

[C. Lee]

Truth,Jutice & Peace For All Mankind

That's good.

 

[Venom71]

That's good.

Its from one of the old Superfriends cartoons.

 

[C. Lee]

Its from one of the old Superfriends cartoons.

Really? I haven't seen them since they originally came out....don't remember a lot about them anymore.

 

[supzfan]

Of course the suit is based on the Armerican flag. Here's a quote from kal-el.org.:"In addition, Superman has a uniquely American appeal as his uniform is based on the colors of the American flag, and he was introduced during the World War II era as the “invincible” American – something the public was desperate to believe in." I don't see your point about the Midwest reference as I never said or suggested that he was any more American than someone coming from Florida or Seattle or anywhere else in the U.S. Part of the character's appeal is that he can represent any kind of "American Way" you want him to. I would never presume to force my personal idea of that on anybody else as that would be Un-American.

 

[Nightwing1977]

Singer argues that he wants Superman to be a hero for everyone, and that is why the American way is taken out.

As a non-American I must admit that I like that. I want him to be a hero for me too.

Same here. I'm American & it don't bother me they remove that. It might have been up there during World War 2. Plus, Singer has a fact why. Superman doesn't just protect American. He protect every countries who need his help. I think that why Superman is popular in many countries beside American where he was created. But I don't mind if they put in "American Way", since that quite an iconic term. But I don't care if it not there.

 

[Oldguy]

Of course the suit is based on the Armerican flag. Here's a quote from kal-el.org.:"In addition, Superman has a uniquely American appeal as his uniform is based on the colors of the American flag..."

Here's a fine example of revisionist bull**** that Americans are so beloved for. Where's the yellow on your flag again? Where's the white Superman? A star? A stripe? Bueller?

Could it be that in 1938, in a time of 4 colour comic book printing, that Superman's colours were chosen as a direct result of this limitation? Could it be that Superman's colours were based on the three primary colours, red, blue and yellow?

Capt. America is the guy with the flag inspired costume, but hey, who am I to argue with kal-el.org.

 

[C. Lee]

Here's a fine example of revisionist bull**** that Americans are so beloved for. Where's the yellow on your flag again? Where's the white Superman? A star? A stripe? Bueller?

Nice to see your prejudices are still in tact.....if you read through the thread you will see that I and several other "Dastardly evil Americans" have mentioned this to him.

 

[Mr. Thing]

Here's a fine example of revisionist bull**** that Americans are so beloved for. Where's the yellow on your flag again? Where's the white Superman? A star? A stripe? Bueller?

Could it be that in 1938, in a time of 4 colour comic book printing, that Superman's colours were chosen as a direct result of this limitation? Could it be that Superman's colours were based on the three primary colours, red, blue and yellow?

Capt. America is the guy with the flag inspired costume, but hey, who am I to argue with kal-el.org.

The worlds coming to an end, I agree with Oldguy.

 

[KaptainKrypton]

Superman isn't about a political agenda anymore, and hasn't been for a long time. This isn't the Fleisher cartoons where Clark Kent goes on assignment to Japan and by the stroke of midnight terrorizes the Japanese countryside in the guise of Superman as yep...you guessed it! A TERRORIST! It's also not the waning days of the Cold War where we're seeing Supes rescue Soviet cosmonauts and replanting the US flag on the surface of the moon. I'm American born and raised, through and through, but everyone's idea of the "American Way" is different. Some people don't jive with America's political agenda (and damn sure not just outside of the country) and slapping the old slogan on Superman isn't my idea of a good way to represent a character who stands for Truth and Justice. Don't get me wrong, I love where I live and I appreciate the heck out of the men and women of the armed forces and the sacrifices THEY make, but as far as I'm concerned the American way revolves around putting Arabian oil in Japanese cars. I don't want the last pure entity of my childhood tainted by a few choice words which in the end are trivial at best.

 

[KaptainKrypton]

Nice to see your prejudices are still in tact.....if you read through the thread you will see that I and several other "Dastardly evil Americans" have mentioned this to him.

Oldguy isn't prejudiced...he loathes everyone equally.