deathshead2
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No they haven't only said ironman and dr.strange are next.PWN3R RANGER said:
Ultimate Avengers 2 Review Thread!!
- Thread starter boywonder13
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PWN3R
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Yeah I liked it too. Better than the first IMO. The end was cheap though, too convenient and too fast. Every part with Thor was awesome. He should have a movie...
And yeah, I dunno whats up with the ribs, but it was funny.
And yeah, I dunno whats up with the ribs, but it was funny.
Darthphere
Kneel before 'Drox!
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Im getting it tomorrow from netflix.
dpm07
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I liked this one more than the first one. I'm crazy about the Black Widow. I don't know if it's her animation or what but...
I also liked the fact that they seem to delve more into Thor a little. I think he did get a bit of the shaft in the terms of action, but I loved that scene at the end where he revitalizes Tony Stark. That rocked, and illustrated how cool Thor is.
Thor definitely needs to be amped up in terms of exposure on the Ultimate Avengers or get his own DVD. I definitely like the environmentalist approach they are using with him. It seems to work and complement him well.
I'm not crazy about the animation style, but I'm starting to get used to it. The origin of the Black Panther while not as epic per se as Captain America at the beginning of the film, was done very well. I liked the interaction between T'Challa and T'Chaka.
I also liked the fact that they seem to delve more into Thor a little. I think he did get a bit of the shaft in the terms of action, but I loved that scene at the end where he revitalizes Tony Stark. That rocked, and illustrated how cool Thor is.
Thor definitely needs to be amped up in terms of exposure on the Ultimate Avengers or get his own DVD. I definitely like the environmentalist approach they are using with him. It seems to work and complement him well.
I'm not crazy about the animation style, but I'm starting to get used to it. The origin of the Black Panther while not as epic per se as Captain America at the beginning of the film, was done very well. I liked the interaction between T'Challa and T'Chaka.
PWN3R
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I just hate how this ties more into 616 than Ultimate. Sure the Chitari(sp), and outfits, and Triskelion are they, sure they take some elements right out of the Ultimates, but this is not the Ultimates at all. Iron Man is more 616, and this movie had Black Panther and Wakanda, which aren't even in Ultimate continuity yet.
They should just call it Avengers with the look and feel of the Ultimates.
I still liked it though...
They should just call it Avengers with the look and feel of the Ultimates.
I still liked it though...
GoldGoblin
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I thought they were making like 8 of these movies,then why are they holding off to make an Iron Man and Dr.Strange movie?
colossus96
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i bought it this morning and i did enjoy this. not as much as the first but still entertaining, too bad that the hulk doesnt get into any real action like part 1
my review
As I mentioned last week in my review of Ultimate Avengers: The Movie, I have never been terribly familiar with the Avengers outside of the most well knows like Captain America and the Hulk. Going into this second film, I did not know very much about one of the new spotlighted heroes, the Black Panther. This film nicely follows up part 1, and establishes the aliens as being a real threat (as their showing in part 1 was a tad weak).
Ultimate Avengers part 2 does a better job balancing character stories with the once again limited time of 73 minutes. I think everyone got some decent scenes. This part gives a bit more focus to Iron man, and a bit less to Black Widow and the Hulk, but everyone else is given about the same screen time as they were last time around (Thor still seems to get much less time than I would expect). Part 2 also probably is more deserving of its PG-13 rating as it seems to have a bit more graphic violence and the stakes seem higher and more threatening. Then again, the action though plentiful, is less engrossing this time around. As a stand alone story, this film is a bit weak, but it certainly makes the first movie better when the 2 are seen back-to-back. I cannot really see someone having vastly different opinions of the two films. If you liked part 1, check this one out. If not, don't bother. And if you haven't seen part 1, see it first, otherwise you are basically only seeing the end of a longer film. As part of a 2 story tale (not as a stand alone), I once again give the Avengers a B. So, when do we get Ultimate Avengers 3?
As I mentioned last week in my review of Ultimate Avengers: The Movie, I have never been terribly familiar with the Avengers outside of the most well knows like Captain America and the Hulk. Going into this second film, I did not know very much about one of the new spotlighted heroes, the Black Panther. This film nicely follows up part 1, and establishes the aliens as being a real threat (as their showing in part 1 was a tad weak).
The film opens with an action packed sequence of those bastardly aliens from part 1 attacking the African city of Wakanda, home of the Panther. Not only are the aliens back, but so is their Nazi/alien commander that we thought the Cap had taken care of in part 1. A fight between the Panther and aliens ensues resulting in a bloody death for the Black Panther leading to his son donning the Panther mantle. This sequence was not quite as great as the fantastically retro opening of part 1, but it was still impressive. Not only can the panther shoot talons, but if he gets mad enough, his head literally transforms into a panther's. Nice!
Reintroductions follow. Captain America as a man out of time has a deathwish, the Hulk is incarcerated and sedated, Giant Man is trying to push his growth abilities beyond safety levels, and Iron Man's heart is having trouble. In spite of all this, the Avengers are reassembled to assist Wakanda even though outsiders are forbidden and help is unwanted. Meanwhile, Thor must disobey his father Odin by continuing his involvement with earthly matters.
Once again, the assembled team receives quite a thrashing, and a worldwide invasion follows and many human get in the line of fire. The aliens are focusing efforts on Wakanda (turns out the city is sitting on a stockpile of vibranium, the alien power source). The Avengers lick their wounds, Iron Man dons the War Machine armor, and the Black Panther finally teams up with the Avengers. Will it be enough? Will they all survive? See for yourself.
Reintroductions follow. Captain America as a man out of time has a deathwish, the Hulk is incarcerated and sedated, Giant Man is trying to push his growth abilities beyond safety levels, and Iron Man's heart is having trouble. In spite of all this, the Avengers are reassembled to assist Wakanda even though outsiders are forbidden and help is unwanted. Meanwhile, Thor must disobey his father Odin by continuing his involvement with earthly matters.
Once again, the assembled team receives quite a thrashing, and a worldwide invasion follows and many human get in the line of fire. The aliens are focusing efforts on Wakanda (turns out the city is sitting on a stockpile of vibranium, the alien power source). The Avengers lick their wounds, Iron Man dons the War Machine armor, and the Black Panther finally teams up with the Avengers. Will it be enough? Will they all survive? See for yourself.
BizarroAids
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I just ordered this movie off of Amazon with a few other flicks. Am I in for a treat or a let down? I thought the first one was great. Even though I was expecting more from the animation, the movie was still fun.
Without giving too much away, does this movie have fights scenes like the ones in the first? I absoultely loved the the end battle with Hulk. Does anything as exciting as that happen?
Without giving too much away, does this movie have fights scenes like the ones in the first? I absoultely loved the the end battle with Hulk. Does anything as exciting as that happen?
Dread
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http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192380&page=25
That is my first review of ULTIMATE AVENGERS: THE MOVIE (or UA 1). Some people were surprised that overall I enjoyed it, despite the fact that it wasn't perfect. Whenever the flaws were discussed, most people seem to conviently forget that some of those flaws were inherited from the ULTIMATES comic book, which was great but hardly perfect (and itself FULL of pop-culture references or crude humor that made the "Thor burping" bit look tame in comparison. "Hulk STRAIGHT!" is only funny to homophobic 11 year olds). Didn't like the "stale aliens"? That's from ULTIMATES, where they have no motivation aside for conquest. Wish there were "actual supervillians"? Also from ULTIMATES, where there were NO villians until about halfway through, and Banner turned into Hulk to LITERALLY give the team a threat so they wouldn't lose funding. None. I at least appreciated trucking out the aliens earlier to give the team a real reason to assemble, rather than, "oh, sometime in the future, some supervillian may attack, so let's all sit together and chatter while no actual villian shows up, forcing Banner's desperate actions to provide us a climax, and we've relied on battling our own teammates for 2/3rd's of our subsequent stories ever since." The ULTIMATE AVENGERS chose to imitate the comics and in doing so inheritated some of the flaws. Still, UA 1 was good, especially at a time when most Western cartoons were shifting back into "kiddie" mode, here was something with pulse pounding action and some mature themes. It was a step in the right direction that a truly spectacular sequal could have knocked out of the park.
ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2: RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER is enjoyable, and services as an efficient sequal to the first, but it is not spectacular. It doesn't have the same sort of pulse pounding action as the first and I believe that is because this film completely abandoned the source material, which in a way is a shame, because Millar & Hitch constructed a better Kleiser fight. In fact, all of the action sequences in the first movie were better. But more on that later.
The movie in a way falls into the same dilemma of the X-MEN movies; the cast is already huge, and a star character selected out of a cast of easily a half dozen folks, and then in every film, new characters emerge to eat up screentime. Black Panther and Wakanda play a very vital role in the plot, but without expanding the film's length, that has more banes than boons. Of course, fans always lament, "why are these DTV's so short?" and that is simple; 75 minutes or less is the ideal time for a programming block on CARTOON NETWORK; they only need to devote 90 minutes (or 1.5 hours as their schedule would claim) to it. And its not just Marvel. MYSTERY OF THE BATWOMAN? BRAINIAC ATTACKS? Even SUBZERO from the late 90's? All under 80 minutes. Which is a shame because it takes time to advance both characters and stories. One day I would like to see a DTV that is actually made for the home viewer and not so conscious about future cable airings. I mean, a 90 minute special would require CN to spend 2 hours on it. That means, gasp, one less episode of ONE PIECE or NARUTO or whatever anime they pimp out (and frequently have marathon airings of).
Also, while it's commendable that the writers wanted to step away from merely adapting THE ULTIMATES stories, that adaptation gave them more of a framework to go with, from translating scenes that were already effective to great pacings for battles that merely needed to be embellished, touched up, added to, etc. UA 2 lacks that sort of focus and while this film has a plot, a villian, character development (of sorts), and a lot of violent action, it doesn't feel as satisfying at the end as a single film. Hitch may honestly be a more cinematic artist than some of the storyboarders working on these things.
That is not to say that the film is bad, no sir. I enjoyed it. It has plenty of good stuff that unlike ULTIMATE AVENGERS, I didn't see coming because I'd read the comic. The summary: The Chituri aliens that the Avengers thought they vanquished are still very much alive, and so is Kleiser, Cap's WW2 nemesis (who, much like in THE ULTIMATES, is really a poor man's Red Skull, thus an INHERITED flaw). The aliens become connected to Wakanda and kill off their leader, T'Chaka (who honestly got the best fight scenes in the entire film), forcing the younger T'Challa, the only prince who was educated outside of Wakanda and has a healthy understanding of the outside world (the rest of the technologically advanced Wakandans are xenophobic and isolationist) to become Black Panther. Cap is tormented by "war memories" and fears another "ice sleep" the moment he gets close to someone (like Black Widow), so he becomes a workaholic. Hank and Janet are still strained, as his ego can't take anyone else's opinion or output. Tony Stark's physical ailments are shown as he literally relies on his technology to live, and has an armada of Iron Man suits. Thor, meanwhile, is plagued by visions in which he sees the Avengers all dead at the Chituri's hands. His father Odin orders him to not meddle in Midguard (the land of us mortals) because the Norse Gods are no longer worshipped and thus owe nothing to them; Thor, being a noble warrior looking out for his own, refuses. And Banner is kept in a cage and harassed by a near sadistic shrink, played to the hilt by Mark Hamill (returning to a major Marvel cartoon for the first time since the 90's era SPIDER-MAN and HULK cartoons ended). T'Challa is forced to reach out to the Avengers for help, something that appalls his people. The aliens, meanwhile, still want to conquor the Earth and are interested in Wakanda (and perhaps the planet) because they're searching for the metal Vibranium, which the aliens use for almost everything. Turns out gamma radiation makes it turn brittle and collapse, explaining why the Hulk tore through them so easily in the last film (and here I thought he was just really, really strong). The Kleiser launches a surprise attack on the Avengers, leaving Wasp in a coma for a short period that gets Giant-Man to want to be more of a hero (although he's still a dick to Cap). Basically, Cap and Panther fulfill their revenge by beating Kleiser, and Thor, Iron Man, and Giant-Man end up saving the world from the aliens with a rather typical "instant attack kill switch that automatically stops the disaster" that has become very cliche and you can see for yourself in no end of sci-fi action movies, as well as in X-MEN, SPIDER-MAN 2, BATMAN BEGINS, etc. Ironically, while Hank Pym is an irredeamable prick in the comics, he has a noble, hero's death in this film. Oh, and the Hulk gets shafted. All his appearences are shown in the trailer (escept for one).
The opening pre-title Wakandan sequence was good if you like Black Panther; I was never interested although its better than his REAL first animated appearence, in the second season of the FANTASTIC FOUR cartoon in the 90's (as well as some blink and miss cameo shots during the X-MEN series). It was great to see a character with claws allowed to REND FLESH instead of just tackling people or cutting robots. The fight between T'Chaka and Kleiser was quite brutal and, much like the Megatron vs. Optimus Prime fight in TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE, argueably the best fight in the movie. I also liked the opening credits with the slash-marks. Cap's intro battle is between a squad of HYDRA terrorists (yes, HYDRA!) that is intermingled with flashbacks from WW2, that plague him. It was great seeing some actual Marvel villians in the film, and the sequence is quite good. In fact, I'd argue the first half of the movie was a little better than the second, where things started getting repeatitious. What do I mean? Yes, there are a lot of violent action scenes. Aliens get shot, blown up, speared, hacked up, etc. But they all look the same, and you can only watch the same damned aliens get blown up or shot with arrows or bullets before it all looks the same. Even SNES-era side-scrollers usually mixed up the goons a bit with some that were a different color or had different powers. The 2003 era TMNT solved this issue with Foot Ninja by having different types (regular Foot, armored Foot Techs that go invisible and have super-strength, the teleporting Elites, and even some grunts like Hun or hulking Mechs). Aside for some Lovecraftian "long legged blasters" and some flying machines, it all looks the same after a while. And after the T'Chaka sequence, the final Kleiser battle looks awkward. The pacing is a little strange, although Panther gets in a few good rips, and the finale resembles a video game boss battle where they have to "hit all the pipes to drown him in liquid Vibranium". Not as satisfying as having Cap pummel the bejessus out of him before Hulk tears him apart. Or even as intense as the Avengers vs. Hulk fight that ended the last movie.
Black Panther's physiology needed some explaining. I get that Wakanda harvests Vibranium, which is why his clawed gauntlets kick butt and why they can have spears and arrows that even effect Iron Man. But he can also leap all over the place and, when he gets really ticked, turn his head into an actual Panther's and go feline for a bit. In the comics, yes, it coms from "jungle erbs". But the cartoon is a new animal and the origin here needed context. A simple line about the erbs would have sufficed, but there was none, and that's telling.
The aliens have little motive aside for conquest. I guess since they were interested in Wakanda for the Vibranium, maybe they assumed the rest of the planet might also have more of the stuff (in the comics, this is true; the Savage Land in Antartica has some, for instance), but this is more of an allusion. It seemed like the aliens wanted Wankanda for the ore and the rest of the planet, eh, because they're alien Nazi's and they're evil. That's not more motive than the ULTIMATES comic gave them, however. Kleiser at least fills the role of a villian here, but as I said, he's at heart a poor excuse for Red Skull and he needed a better finish, a better paced final battle and a closing that didn't resemble a boss fight from METAL GEAR SOLID, because if I wanted that, I'd play a video game. Although intellectually speaking, as he could heal from any injury, it was the best way to beat him (and was in a way like the end of the T-1000 in TERMINATOR 2). Maybe I was just comparing it too much to the incredibly well paced and hectic Hulk fight that ended the last film.
While some of the action needed work, the characters satisfied me. Thor got some more time to shine and Dave Boat ate up all of his lines. The voice cast I felt were fine, with Gross adjusting to his role as a tortured Capt. America. And while for some reason hardcore fans wanted to see Pym viciously beat his wife and be an irredeamable scumbag, I actually liked that he acted more like 616 in that he was still a hero, and proved it in the end. Iron Man, another "selfish hero" did the same, and I liked how a desperate Thor revived him. Banner and Betty had a very touching "death sequence", although it was a little marred by the "oh, he just gets up as the Hulk". Part of the fun of the Hulk is seeing the transformation sequence, and the lead-up to it that the first film captured well. This time they made it feel more generic. Considering Hulk is probably the biggest named character in the flick, a shame he got that much of a shaft in the action. The ship-smashing sequences with Thor and Hulk from the comic were much better, so one couldn't help but compare. The animation looked a little off when compared to the first movie, although it was still above Saturday Morning fare. I did think I saw one "Thor smashes the laser canon" repeat shot, though. While the action felt a little mediocre, I liked the character conflicts, I liked the "superhero" stuff of breaking into an alien ship and then Hank and Stark barely surviving their pitch to save the world. The Cap/Widow romance also fit in well as both are battle hardened soldiers of past eras (WW2 and the Soviet Union era, respectively). I guess while the first movie blazed some trails for me, this one seemed more intent on walking the beaten path. Instead of another base hit, it was a sacrifice bunt. Yes, there could have been more airtime and it could have allowed some characters, like Wasp and Pym, to get more time. But honestly I feel the cast was handled at least as good as the overloaded cast of the X-Men films, where in 3 movies, even characters who were in all three movies barely had their pasts shown (aside for Logan the star). I just felt that as good as this movie was, it needed some more focus, some tighter action with Kleiser, and some way of not making the alien battles seem so monotonous. Maybe having Kleiser not have been the only "Chituri super-soldier" would have worked out better for that end.
Still, it's fun and non-kiddie superhero action that is free of the political quagmire that has claimed ULTIMATES 2 and distracted it from a plot.
As for the extras. The "Gag Reel" was the sort of scripted thing that usually is in Pixar films or whatnot, and it was about 45% funny, with 65% being annoying (the rib jokes always failed). The sneak peaks at IRON MAN and DR. STRANGE look good; the animation for the latter looks incredible. As for IRON MAN, mingling in the mysticism is probably one of the most outdated things about his origin that needed patching up, as he's better when fighting techno-villians like Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Ghost, etc. And merging the cell-shaded CGI armor into the 2D animation never works and ruins the effect by making you go, "oh, look, CGI". When that happens, the effect is lost.
There is a "making of THE ULTIMATES" thing, which was good but seemed like it should have been on the previous disc, as it deals mostly with the original series and film, with maybe 2 minutes spent on this one, and it seemed as if some statements were repeated from both. It was still great to watch, though, although naturally they don't mention how politically polarizing ULTIMATES 2 has become (the moral of that, so far, is that America is Evil, and people who believe in America are more evil. For 5 issues the villians have done nothing but blame America for every evil that has ever existed under the sun while claiming that Americans are imperlistic thugs who thirst for blood, and not one hero rebuts this accusation, merely prove them right by inflicting violence with 90's action movie lines).
They go over how Millar gave his cast "realistic imperfections", but sadly he went overboard in that nearly the entire cast of ULTIMATES are irredeamable arse-holes that you only root for because they are the stars. Cap is a jack-booted thug, Hank a merciless wife-beater, Jan a hopeless battered wife, Stark a hopeless drunk, and so on and so forth. ULTIMATE AVENGERS at least remembers that behind all that, these need to be heroes who are worth looking up to. Maybe Millar wants to say that in real life, there are no "heroes" as everyone has a dark side, but that is depressing and it makes excuses for base behavior. "It's okay to be a jerk because everyone else is". The DTV's aren't as mired in cynical, political darkness and that is always what is refreshing about them.
If UA 1 was a B+ effort, I'd give UA 2 a B, maybe a B- if I was feeling mean. I see a lot of hope with the franchise if they can craft better stories and villians now that the Chituri have been dealt with. They need to make the action scenes tighter and more satisfying and probably be willing to give CN the finger and make a film that feels longer than an infomercial. People who claim this is "garbage" honestly have short memories and have omitted real "garbage" like SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED, AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND, or BRAINIAC ATTACKS, or live action efforts like BATMAN & ROBIN, CROW: CITY OF ANGELS, STEEL, ELEKTRA or CATWOMAN. Compare UA 2 to all of those and it gets a bloody Oscar. It can take even good shows an entire season to "feel their feet" and this was the first flick that wasn't using the ULTIMATES comic for about half of its storyboards, probably for ill. Hopefully if, when there is an ULTIMATE AVENGERS 3, they'd have worked out the kinks. Because I am interested in this franchise and a third could really hit a home run on all levels for all fans.
They just need to trade Black Panther for Hawkeye.
That is my first review of ULTIMATE AVENGERS: THE MOVIE (or UA 1). Some people were surprised that overall I enjoyed it, despite the fact that it wasn't perfect. Whenever the flaws were discussed, most people seem to conviently forget that some of those flaws were inherited from the ULTIMATES comic book, which was great but hardly perfect (and itself FULL of pop-culture references or crude humor that made the "Thor burping" bit look tame in comparison. "Hulk STRAIGHT!" is only funny to homophobic 11 year olds). Didn't like the "stale aliens"? That's from ULTIMATES, where they have no motivation aside for conquest. Wish there were "actual supervillians"? Also from ULTIMATES, where there were NO villians until about halfway through, and Banner turned into Hulk to LITERALLY give the team a threat so they wouldn't lose funding. None. I at least appreciated trucking out the aliens earlier to give the team a real reason to assemble, rather than, "oh, sometime in the future, some supervillian may attack, so let's all sit together and chatter while no actual villian shows up, forcing Banner's desperate actions to provide us a climax, and we've relied on battling our own teammates for 2/3rd's of our subsequent stories ever since." The ULTIMATE AVENGERS chose to imitate the comics and in doing so inheritated some of the flaws. Still, UA 1 was good, especially at a time when most Western cartoons were shifting back into "kiddie" mode, here was something with pulse pounding action and some mature themes. It was a step in the right direction that a truly spectacular sequal could have knocked out of the park.
ULTIMATE AVENGERS 2: RISE OF THE BLACK PANTHER is enjoyable, and services as an efficient sequal to the first, but it is not spectacular. It doesn't have the same sort of pulse pounding action as the first and I believe that is because this film completely abandoned the source material, which in a way is a shame, because Millar & Hitch constructed a better Kleiser fight. In fact, all of the action sequences in the first movie were better. But more on that later.
The movie in a way falls into the same dilemma of the X-MEN movies; the cast is already huge, and a star character selected out of a cast of easily a half dozen folks, and then in every film, new characters emerge to eat up screentime. Black Panther and Wakanda play a very vital role in the plot, but without expanding the film's length, that has more banes than boons. Of course, fans always lament, "why are these DTV's so short?" and that is simple; 75 minutes or less is the ideal time for a programming block on CARTOON NETWORK; they only need to devote 90 minutes (or 1.5 hours as their schedule would claim) to it. And its not just Marvel. MYSTERY OF THE BATWOMAN? BRAINIAC ATTACKS? Even SUBZERO from the late 90's? All under 80 minutes. Which is a shame because it takes time to advance both characters and stories. One day I would like to see a DTV that is actually made for the home viewer and not so conscious about future cable airings. I mean, a 90 minute special would require CN to spend 2 hours on it. That means, gasp, one less episode of ONE PIECE or NARUTO or whatever anime they pimp out (and frequently have marathon airings of).
Also, while it's commendable that the writers wanted to step away from merely adapting THE ULTIMATES stories, that adaptation gave them more of a framework to go with, from translating scenes that were already effective to great pacings for battles that merely needed to be embellished, touched up, added to, etc. UA 2 lacks that sort of focus and while this film has a plot, a villian, character development (of sorts), and a lot of violent action, it doesn't feel as satisfying at the end as a single film. Hitch may honestly be a more cinematic artist than some of the storyboarders working on these things.
That is not to say that the film is bad, no sir. I enjoyed it. It has plenty of good stuff that unlike ULTIMATE AVENGERS, I didn't see coming because I'd read the comic. The summary: The Chituri aliens that the Avengers thought they vanquished are still very much alive, and so is Kleiser, Cap's WW2 nemesis (who, much like in THE ULTIMATES, is really a poor man's Red Skull, thus an INHERITED flaw). The aliens become connected to Wakanda and kill off their leader, T'Chaka (who honestly got the best fight scenes in the entire film), forcing the younger T'Challa, the only prince who was educated outside of Wakanda and has a healthy understanding of the outside world (the rest of the technologically advanced Wakandans are xenophobic and isolationist) to become Black Panther. Cap is tormented by "war memories" and fears another "ice sleep" the moment he gets close to someone (like Black Widow), so he becomes a workaholic. Hank and Janet are still strained, as his ego can't take anyone else's opinion or output. Tony Stark's physical ailments are shown as he literally relies on his technology to live, and has an armada of Iron Man suits. Thor, meanwhile, is plagued by visions in which he sees the Avengers all dead at the Chituri's hands. His father Odin orders him to not meddle in Midguard (the land of us mortals) because the Norse Gods are no longer worshipped and thus owe nothing to them; Thor, being a noble warrior looking out for his own, refuses. And Banner is kept in a cage and harassed by a near sadistic shrink, played to the hilt by Mark Hamill (returning to a major Marvel cartoon for the first time since the 90's era SPIDER-MAN and HULK cartoons ended). T'Challa is forced to reach out to the Avengers for help, something that appalls his people. The aliens, meanwhile, still want to conquor the Earth and are interested in Wakanda (and perhaps the planet) because they're searching for the metal Vibranium, which the aliens use for almost everything. Turns out gamma radiation makes it turn brittle and collapse, explaining why the Hulk tore through them so easily in the last film (and here I thought he was just really, really strong). The Kleiser launches a surprise attack on the Avengers, leaving Wasp in a coma for a short period that gets Giant-Man to want to be more of a hero (although he's still a dick to Cap). Basically, Cap and Panther fulfill their revenge by beating Kleiser, and Thor, Iron Man, and Giant-Man end up saving the world from the aliens with a rather typical "instant attack kill switch that automatically stops the disaster" that has become very cliche and you can see for yourself in no end of sci-fi action movies, as well as in X-MEN, SPIDER-MAN 2, BATMAN BEGINS, etc. Ironically, while Hank Pym is an irredeamable prick in the comics, he has a noble, hero's death in this film. Oh, and the Hulk gets shafted. All his appearences are shown in the trailer (escept for one).
The opening pre-title Wakandan sequence was good if you like Black Panther; I was never interested although its better than his REAL first animated appearence, in the second season of the FANTASTIC FOUR cartoon in the 90's (as well as some blink and miss cameo shots during the X-MEN series). It was great to see a character with claws allowed to REND FLESH instead of just tackling people or cutting robots. The fight between T'Chaka and Kleiser was quite brutal and, much like the Megatron vs. Optimus Prime fight in TRANSFORMERS: THE MOVIE, argueably the best fight in the movie. I also liked the opening credits with the slash-marks. Cap's intro battle is between a squad of HYDRA terrorists (yes, HYDRA!) that is intermingled with flashbacks from WW2, that plague him. It was great seeing some actual Marvel villians in the film, and the sequence is quite good. In fact, I'd argue the first half of the movie was a little better than the second, where things started getting repeatitious. What do I mean? Yes, there are a lot of violent action scenes. Aliens get shot, blown up, speared, hacked up, etc. But they all look the same, and you can only watch the same damned aliens get blown up or shot with arrows or bullets before it all looks the same. Even SNES-era side-scrollers usually mixed up the goons a bit with some that were a different color or had different powers. The 2003 era TMNT solved this issue with Foot Ninja by having different types (regular Foot, armored Foot Techs that go invisible and have super-strength, the teleporting Elites, and even some grunts like Hun or hulking Mechs). Aside for some Lovecraftian "long legged blasters" and some flying machines, it all looks the same after a while. And after the T'Chaka sequence, the final Kleiser battle looks awkward. The pacing is a little strange, although Panther gets in a few good rips, and the finale resembles a video game boss battle where they have to "hit all the pipes to drown him in liquid Vibranium". Not as satisfying as having Cap pummel the bejessus out of him before Hulk tears him apart. Or even as intense as the Avengers vs. Hulk fight that ended the last movie.
Black Panther's physiology needed some explaining. I get that Wakanda harvests Vibranium, which is why his clawed gauntlets kick butt and why they can have spears and arrows that even effect Iron Man. But he can also leap all over the place and, when he gets really ticked, turn his head into an actual Panther's and go feline for a bit. In the comics, yes, it coms from "jungle erbs". But the cartoon is a new animal and the origin here needed context. A simple line about the erbs would have sufficed, but there was none, and that's telling.
The aliens have little motive aside for conquest. I guess since they were interested in Wakanda for the Vibranium, maybe they assumed the rest of the planet might also have more of the stuff (in the comics, this is true; the Savage Land in Antartica has some, for instance), but this is more of an allusion. It seemed like the aliens wanted Wankanda for the ore and the rest of the planet, eh, because they're alien Nazi's and they're evil. That's not more motive than the ULTIMATES comic gave them, however. Kleiser at least fills the role of a villian here, but as I said, he's at heart a poor excuse for Red Skull and he needed a better finish, a better paced final battle and a closing that didn't resemble a boss fight from METAL GEAR SOLID, because if I wanted that, I'd play a video game. Although intellectually speaking, as he could heal from any injury, it was the best way to beat him (and was in a way like the end of the T-1000 in TERMINATOR 2). Maybe I was just comparing it too much to the incredibly well paced and hectic Hulk fight that ended the last film.
While some of the action needed work, the characters satisfied me. Thor got some more time to shine and Dave Boat ate up all of his lines. The voice cast I felt were fine, with Gross adjusting to his role as a tortured Capt. America. And while for some reason hardcore fans wanted to see Pym viciously beat his wife and be an irredeamable scumbag, I actually liked that he acted more like 616 in that he was still a hero, and proved it in the end. Iron Man, another "selfish hero" did the same, and I liked how a desperate Thor revived him. Banner and Betty had a very touching "death sequence", although it was a little marred by the "oh, he just gets up as the Hulk". Part of the fun of the Hulk is seeing the transformation sequence, and the lead-up to it that the first film captured well. This time they made it feel more generic. Considering Hulk is probably the biggest named character in the flick, a shame he got that much of a shaft in the action. The ship-smashing sequences with Thor and Hulk from the comic were much better, so one couldn't help but compare. The animation looked a little off when compared to the first movie, although it was still above Saturday Morning fare. I did think I saw one "Thor smashes the laser canon" repeat shot, though. While the action felt a little mediocre, I liked the character conflicts, I liked the "superhero" stuff of breaking into an alien ship and then Hank and Stark barely surviving their pitch to save the world. The Cap/Widow romance also fit in well as both are battle hardened soldiers of past eras (WW2 and the Soviet Union era, respectively). I guess while the first movie blazed some trails for me, this one seemed more intent on walking the beaten path. Instead of another base hit, it was a sacrifice bunt. Yes, there could have been more airtime and it could have allowed some characters, like Wasp and Pym, to get more time. But honestly I feel the cast was handled at least as good as the overloaded cast of the X-Men films, where in 3 movies, even characters who were in all three movies barely had their pasts shown (aside for Logan the star). I just felt that as good as this movie was, it needed some more focus, some tighter action with Kleiser, and some way of not making the alien battles seem so monotonous. Maybe having Kleiser not have been the only "Chituri super-soldier" would have worked out better for that end.
Still, it's fun and non-kiddie superhero action that is free of the political quagmire that has claimed ULTIMATES 2 and distracted it from a plot.
As for the extras. The "Gag Reel" was the sort of scripted thing that usually is in Pixar films or whatnot, and it was about 45% funny, with 65% being annoying (the rib jokes always failed). The sneak peaks at IRON MAN and DR. STRANGE look good; the animation for the latter looks incredible. As for IRON MAN, mingling in the mysticism is probably one of the most outdated things about his origin that needed patching up, as he's better when fighting techno-villians like Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Ghost, etc. And merging the cell-shaded CGI armor into the 2D animation never works and ruins the effect by making you go, "oh, look, CGI". When that happens, the effect is lost.
There is a "making of THE ULTIMATES" thing, which was good but seemed like it should have been on the previous disc, as it deals mostly with the original series and film, with maybe 2 minutes spent on this one, and it seemed as if some statements were repeated from both. It was still great to watch, though, although naturally they don't mention how politically polarizing ULTIMATES 2 has become (the moral of that, so far, is that America is Evil, and people who believe in America are more evil. For 5 issues the villians have done nothing but blame America for every evil that has ever existed under the sun while claiming that Americans are imperlistic thugs who thirst for blood, and not one hero rebuts this accusation, merely prove them right by inflicting violence with 90's action movie lines).
They go over how Millar gave his cast "realistic imperfections", but sadly he went overboard in that nearly the entire cast of ULTIMATES are irredeamable arse-holes that you only root for because they are the stars. Cap is a jack-booted thug, Hank a merciless wife-beater, Jan a hopeless battered wife, Stark a hopeless drunk, and so on and so forth. ULTIMATE AVENGERS at least remembers that behind all that, these need to be heroes who are worth looking up to. Maybe Millar wants to say that in real life, there are no "heroes" as everyone has a dark side, but that is depressing and it makes excuses for base behavior. "It's okay to be a jerk because everyone else is". The DTV's aren't as mired in cynical, political darkness and that is always what is refreshing about them.
If UA 1 was a B+ effort, I'd give UA 2 a B, maybe a B- if I was feeling mean. I see a lot of hope with the franchise if they can craft better stories and villians now that the Chituri have been dealt with. They need to make the action scenes tighter and more satisfying and probably be willing to give CN the finger and make a film that feels longer than an infomercial. People who claim this is "garbage" honestly have short memories and have omitted real "garbage" like SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED, AVENGERS: UNITED THEY STAND, or BRAINIAC ATTACKS, or live action efforts like BATMAN & ROBIN, CROW: CITY OF ANGELS, STEEL, ELEKTRA or CATWOMAN. Compare UA 2 to all of those and it gets a bloody Oscar. It can take even good shows an entire season to "feel their feet" and this was the first flick that wasn't using the ULTIMATES comic for about half of its storyboards, probably for ill. Hopefully if, when there is an ULTIMATE AVENGERS 3, they'd have worked out the kinks. Because I am interested in this franchise and a third could really hit a home run on all levels for all fans.
They just need to trade Black Panther for Hawkeye.
Dread
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Not directly. But c'mon. The same people who seem to like Millar's crude humor in ULTIMATES yet bemoan the "Thor burping" sequence tend to irk me. All of a sudden ULTIMATES was treated as some flawless holy scripture, what with classic stuff like references to Freddie Prince Junior and cannibal/penis jokes, and the animated flick some "child-pleasing toilet" thing with the burp joke.PWN3R RANGER said:Dread flat out called me a homophobic 11 year old.
At least this time, the flatuance humor is kept to the Gag Reel.
Dread
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Exactly.PWN3R RANGER said:I thought the gag reel was funny. The ribs man.
The burping was too much, but so is Millar's person political view overload every issue.
If you'll admit that you liked the rib jokes, I'll admit I liked the burp/fart jokes. They're my weakness in movies. Like in BLAZING SADDLES (a classic in and of itself).
Dread
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Not sure on Jarvis. But I'd definately add:PWN3R RANGER said:
- better action sequences, some episodes of TMNT or JLU have topped UA 2 in their sleep
- better villians; with the aliens burried, let's see some real villians.
- a longer running time, with a story that takes full advantage of that.
Darthphere
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Dread said:
supermarvelman
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I enjoyed it, it could've been better, but the main 2 things that pissed me off where.
1)What happens to Hank Pym (This one really pisses me off)
2)The limited use of the Hulk
1)What happens to Hank Pym (This one really pisses me off)
2)The limited use of the Hulk
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