Ultimate Marvel

[Little Foot]

I've been thinking for a while that a lot of these villains with lame or limited use gimmicks would work well on a villain team that was modeled after "Ocean's 11." Everyone has specific jobs to do in the overal plan, not simply going in and beating up super heroes.

Not to drudge up something that's already been discussed, but that seems like a really fun idea.

That's stupid though, doctors are still human and I have heard stores about doctors screwing up all the time.

Almost everyone I know would seek a second opinion on such a important thing.
Its just the most obvious and logical thing to do.

Well, humans aren't solely logical creatures, Mr. Data.
I mean, just because you and your friends would make a smart decision does not mean that everyone would.
For instance, drinking games are ridiculously stupid--good chance of alcohol poisoning. Cocaine is incredibly addictive and destructive, and yet people use it. People have sex without protection and get STDs or get pregnant.
Life is not a logic game that everyone wins. Further, literature is boring without people making mistakes. If everyone acted logically and intelligently, there wouldn't be any problems, and without any problems, there's no plot.

 

[The Overlord]

Not to drudge up something that's already been discussed, but that seems like a really fun idea.



Well, humans aren't solely logical creatures, Mr. Data.
I mean, just because you and your friends would make a smart decision does not mean that everyone would.
For instance, drinking games are ridiculously stupid--good chance of alcohol poisoning. Cocaine is incredibly addictive and destructive, and yet people use it. People have sex without protection and get STDs or get pregnant.
Life is not a logic game that everyone wins. Further, literature is boring without people making mistakes. If everyone acted logically and intelligently, there wouldn't be any problems, and without any problems, there's no plot.

the problem is Tockman is supposed to be somewhat smart. He can invent a bunch of clock themed weapons, but this simple concept alludes him?

That makes him look like a tedious character from a bad movie.

 

[Little Foot]

the problem is Tockman is supposed to be somewhat smart. He can invent a bunch of clock themed weapons, but this simple concept alludes him?

That makes him look like a tedious character from a bad movie.

I know plenty of really smart people who are playing drinking games almost every Friday night, who are partying on nights before tests, etc.
"Smart" does not equal "wise" or "impervious to mistakes."

 

[The Overlord]

I know plenty of really smart people who are playing drinking games almost every Friday night, who are partying on nights before tests, etc.
"Smart" does not equal "wise" or "impervious to mistakes."

The problem is it still reminds me of tedious characters from bad movies who do stupid things to prolong the movie's conflict, that could have solved in 3 minutes if the characters were using their heads.

That's just not good writing, its the kind of bad characterization that makes for bad story telling in movies, it isn't very good in comics either.

 

[Little Foot]

The problem is it still reminds me of tedious characters from bad movies who do stupid things to prolong the movie's conflict, that could have solved in 3 minutes if the characters were using their heads.

That's just not good writing, its the kind of bad characterization that makes for bad story telling in movies, it isn't very good in comics either.

I don't know, it's frustrating, but it doesn't make the characters bad...it can increase a lot of tension in the story.
What sort of movies are you referring to in particular? Could you name some examples?

 

[The Overlord]

I don't know, it's frustrating, but it doesn't make the characters bad...it can increase a lot of tension in the story.
What sort of movies are you referring to in particular? Could you name some examples?

No its bad characterization, it creates false tension, that makes me completely uninterested in the character. Its a bad trope, its so forced.


Recent example, I saw a review of the movie Deception, in it the main character is innocent of crime he accused, but he acts like a idiot for most of the film, he makes himself look guilty, instead of making himself look innocent, for no other reason than to prolong the movie's conflict.

 

[Little Foot]

No its bad characterization, it creates false tension, that makes me completely uninterested in the character. Its a bad trope, its so forced.


Recent example, I saw a review of the movie Deception, in it the main character is innocent of crime he accused, but he acts like a idiot for most of the film, he makes himself look guilty, instead of making himself look innocent, for no other reason than to prolong the movie's conflict.

Fugitive was a great film...

 

[fifthfiend]

Fugitive was a great film...

I honestly didn't really get into it? The wrapup felt a little bit pat to me. That it was a TV show first always sounded about right to me, it seems like more of a TV-suited concept.

 

[The Overlord]

Fugitive was a great film...

Clock King isn't as well written as the characters in those movies, in the fugative, the character couldn't have cleared everything up by doing one simple thing, now could he? i mean the tommy Lee Jones character stated he didn't vcare if her killled his wife or not, he was going to do is job.

That's the problem i have characters acting stupid just to prolong a conflict, without an in character explaiantion. There is a difference between real tension and false tension. Fugitive, real tension, Deception false tension. Tockman's whole motive is filled with false tension and plot induced stupidity.

 

[Little Foot]

Clock King isn't as well written as the characters in those movies, in the fugative, the character couldn't have cleared everything up by doing one simple thing, now could he? i mean the tommy Lee Jones character stated he didn't vcare if her killled his wife or not, he was going to do is job.

That's the problem i have characters acting stupid just to prolong a conflict, without an in character explaiantion. There is a difference between real tension and false tension. Fugitive, real tension, Deception false tension. Tockman's whole motive is filled with false tension and plot induced stupidity.

The only movie I can think of that might fit that is Syriana, but that's mainly because that movie was horrible.

I can't really think of the movies you're referencing, though I think I know what you mean. Could you try to list some mainstream ones that I might be familiar with?

 

[The Question]

The problem is it still reminds me of tedious characters from bad movies who do stupid things to prolong the movie's conflict, that could have solved in 3 minutes if the characters were using their heads.

That's just not good writing, its the kind of bad characterization that makes for bad story telling in movies, it isn't very good in comics either.

The thing is, he's not continuously doing stupid things to prolong the plot. He did one stupid thing that ruined his life and how he's become obsessed with getting revenge on the people who put him in jail.

 

[Little Foot]

The thing is, he's not continuously doing stupid things to prolong the plot. He did one stupid thing that ruined his life and how he's become obsessed with getting revenge on the people who put him in jail.

That sounds like a cool concept...knowing nothing about the character, he actually sounds like he could be interesting.

 

[The Overlord]

The thing is, he's not continuously doing stupid things to prolong the plot. He did one stupid thing that ruined his life and how he's become obsessed with getting revenge on the people who put him in jail.

But now see, that one stupid thing could have been easily avoided by someone with an ounce of common sense.

Seriously if he was such a great inventor, to the point where he all sorts of clock themed weapons, he have tried an life insurance scam if he thought he was dying. No he turned to crime because he is stupid and its convoluted set of circumstances that lead there, which could have easily been avoided by using your head for two seconds.

See this the kind of villain motive i just don't like, where the character is supposed to be smart but does stupid things all the time, to the point where their origins are based them being stupid to create conflict.

A tragic villain should a victim of circumstances, not his own stupidity. There are many good motives for being a villlain, this is not one of them.

Anyway getting back on topic, can you tell any reason why trapster shouldn't be completely different in the UU?

 

[The Question]

Anyway getting back on topic, can you tell any reason why trapster shouldn't be completely different in the UU?

Simple: Creating an entirely new character with the same name is lazy. Taking what already exists and improving upon it while still sticking relatively close to the core of the character, that is a challenge.

 

[The Overlord]

Simple: Creating an entirely new character with the same name is lazy. Taking what already exists and improving upon it while still sticking relatively close to the core of the character, that is a challenge.

Not so, Ultimate Sinister is nothing like 616 Sinister and i like Ultimate Sinister.

Besides can you come with a good ultimate trapster, that wouldn't be a rehash of the 616 trpaster, because otherwise bendis would just use him as joke villain in the begining of an USM arc and this time I wouldn't care.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Is Bendis still on Ultimate Spider-Man? When is he going to get off the comic and let someone else write it? I hear the quality has gone downhill..

 

[Little Foot]

I just wanted to say, I took some of the posters' advice from a while back, and I've started reading Ultimate Spider-Man and The Ultimates, and I'm really enjoying them both a lot.

 

[Blader5489]

Is Bendis still on Ultimate Spider-Man? When is he going to get off the comic and let someone else write it? I hear the quality has gone downhill..

Well then it's obvious you're not reading because USM has been consistently great for the past 2 years.

 

[블라스]

I've been slowly getting back into comics (lately I've been getting collected editions for The Spirit, Wanted, Powers, Walking Dead, Invinicible), but the first comic that got me back into comics was the first Ultimates HC, and I gotta be honest, I seriously loved it.

Of course, I never followed the main 616 confused: why that number) series (just some Daredevil stuff), so my opinion won't be that important, but anyway, the book was really fantastic, and I can't wait to get the 2nd HC.

 

[Anubis]

It's called the 616 because that was the designated number of the Marvel Universe reality we all know and love as presented to us by Alan Moore during his Captain Britain run. Some say he choose that number because it was a form of the number of the beast. (Like 666) Others say that was the date Fantastic Four #1 came out. Others say Moore simply choose a random number to show how insignificant that universe was in the grand scheme of things. It's all speculation, but at any rate, that's why we call it the 616.

 

[Little Foot]

It's called the 616 because that was the designated number of the Marvel Universe reality we all know and love as presented to us by Alan Moore during his Captain Britain run. Some say he choose that number because it was a form of the number of the beast. (Like 666) Others say that was the date Fantastic Four #1 came out. Others say Moore simply choose a random number to show how insignificant that universe was in the grand scheme of things. It's all speculation, but at any rate, that's why we call it the 616.

From what I know of Alan Moore, it could easily be all of the above--and more!
^_^

 

[ohbc07]

I think cap is losing his super serum.When he fought the skrull he mentioned it and talked about it hitting a cord with cap.Just throwing it out...