Ultimate Origins *Spoiler*

[storyteller]

Really
I can accept the changing color, its just they dont seem to make a big deal about it. Like it only changes for that issue and then its back to being gray.

 

[Joker]

In ultimate 1 and 2 the Hulk is gray
In ultimate wolverine vs the hulk, the hulk is green
This story takes place between ultimates 1 and 2, so why the color change?

In ultimate power the hulk is again gray
In ultimate origin we got a green hulk

In various flashbacks of the hulk from various ultimate minis, the hulk is either gray or green for the same events.

In Ultimates 1 and 2 he is grey, due to the super soldier serum in his blood.

They've said they are explaining the different color in Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk, but we won't know why till it finally finishes

Ultimate Power takes place after Ultimates 2, so yes, still grey.

Ultimate Origin is the same Hulk as in Ultimate Team Up, which takes place before Ultimates 1, it's the exact same scene from the end of the issue of Team Up he was in.

The flashbacks are just artist inconsistencies.

The time line looks like this...

Ultimate Team Ups/Origin- Green Hulk, no super soldier serum

Ultiamtes 1- Grey Hulk, super soldier serum

Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk- Green Hulk, explanation forthcoming whenever it finishes

Ultimates 2- Grey Hulk, super soldier serum/whatever brings him back in Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk to being grey.

Ultimate Power- Grey Hulk, still.

 

[storyteller]

okay thanks, i was wondering why spiderman also was acting like he never heard of banner(which would be quite odd consdiering). Of course the whole ultimate line is iffy on the time. The only books really in some sort of sync is the ultimate x-men and ultimate spiderman series.

 

[K.B.]

Picked it up and am not likeing it so far....

Fury/Cage, a prevuious Cap (who really sucked) and Wolvie being the first mutant= garbage

 

[Joker]

okay thanks, i was wondering why spiderman also was acting like he never heard of banner(which would be quite odd consdiering). Of course the whole ultimate line is iffy on the time. The only books really in some sort of sync is the ultimate x-men and ultimate spiderman series.

They actually have a time line for the whole thing in the last Ultimate Handbook that came out, that clears up all the issues. The only thing out of pace seems to be Ultimates 3...And we'll never speak of it again.

 

[squeekness]

Picked it up and am not likeing it so far....

Fury/Cage, a prevuious Cap (who really sucked) and Wolvie being the first mutant= garbage

This is kinda where I fall. I found this issue to be terribly confusing. A person shouldn't have to be a walking Ultimate encyclopedia to wade through it. Some more set up/ refreshers were needed for those of us who don't have all the lines memorized.

 

[Blader5489]

This is kinda where I fall. I found this issue to be terribly confusing. A person shouldn't have to be a walking Ultimate encyclopedia to wade through it. Some more set up/ refreshers were needed for those of us who don't have all the lines memorized.

Uh...the whole thing was pretty self-explanatory.

 

[squeekness]

Uh...the whole thing was pretty self-explanatory.

Really? So Nick Fury has powers now when he didn't before? I mean he didn't walk away from that unchanged, right? The Hulk changing colors thing? All mutants sprang from Logan? So his sleeping with Jean is like an incest thing? It's not as clear as you might think.

 

[Blader5489]

Really? So Nick Fury has powers now when he didn't before? I mean he didn't walk away from that unchanged, right? The Hulk changing colors thing? All mutants sprang from Logan? So his sleeping with Jean is like an incest thing? It's not as clear as you might think.

Jesus, the Hulk's color is not difficult to understand. It's already been explained: when Banner first became the Hulk, he was green, and this was seen in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up. Then, in the Ultimates, he mixed his Hulk formula with a sample of Cap's blood, resulting in the greyish color; the Hulk has looked like that ever since. The reason the Hulk is green in Ultimate Origins #1 is because that scene is a flashback to Ultimate Team-Up; it's the exact same scene in both.

Fury being subject to a super-soldier formula explains how he's relatively the same age in 2008 as he was in WWII.

I don't see how Logan being the first mutant means that his sleeping with Jean was incestuous. It's not like he's related to her.

 

[squeekness]

If they are implying that all mutants came from Logan and she's a mutant, how would they not be related in some distant way?

 

[Blader5489]

I think the implication is that mutants aren't a new species, they're lepers.

So ask yourself: if you had the flu, and your girlfriend contracted the flu from you, then you two had sex, would that be incest?

 

[squeekness]

But wouldn't there still have to be breeding involved. You can't pass genes with a cough, at least not last time I checked.

 

[Joker]

I think this story is implying that the X gene is the byproduct of an infectious disease. Meaning that yes, you can in fact alter someones genes with a cough. Although I'm not sure if they just weren't aware of the mutant gene before this, and they happened to be able to manufacture it themselves, or if Logan really is the first.

And Fury seems to have the same situation going on in the Ultimate universe as he does the 616, with the infinity formula. Doesn't seem to be anything contradictory going on.

 

[squeekness]

I guess I will just have to take you guys' word for it, because it surely seemed to me that the doc was implying that they caused the mutation in Logan to happen, not that it was a disease or infectious beyond passed in the offspring. Evolution is usually carried out by breeding, not by a virus.

 

[TromaFreak64]

I guess I am confused on how this limited series will continue -- it just seems like random events to answer questions and really no story line etc. to whatever is happening. Just like , oh Wolverine is the beginning of mutants, Fury was involved in this test, super soldier this and that -- is there going to be a story or can we expect more random "life changing" revelations about the ultimate universe?

 

[Joker]

The story is of the super soldier serum, not of any particular character. But my guess is, we'll follow Logan, Fury, and the Captain America program up to present day.

 

[chris moore]

Its not a brilliant origin then. Basically runs that America had a bloke in a flag as their symbol. It didnt work, so they decided to create a supersoldier to stand the tests of war. It didnt work a bunch of times, then it did. They stopped bothering with it for a while after Cap froze, then restarted it and let a bunch of companies have a crack - loads of superbeings were the result. The end.

Didnt we know all this already?

Oh yeah - the biggie that I have never managed to understand about the supersolider program: They try to make a supersoldier, they end up with a guy with enhanced physical abilities on a human level who then trains really hard. Quite rightly they try to repeat it, but never it quite right. The results are Spider-Man, Electro, Sandman and a bunch of others who are way more powerful than Cap and if they had been soldiers who went through those processes, then they could have been trained just as well as him - and these are the SS serums considered failures? An army of blokes who are a bit quick and strong, or an army of blokes who can become the desert, who can dodge gunfire, who can fry the enemy with energy from their hands. Think I'd probably have comissioned a bunch of those if the point of it all were a supersoldier army.

 

[Flash-er]

Yes, cause I'm sure Marvel had wire-tapped your friends house and stole his idea. And the seeds for this werent planted all the way back in the first issue of Ultimate Team Up or anything...

Yeeeah... you're gonna have to excuse me for not reading the crap that was Ultimate Team-up. Half the stuff they made up in that didn't even stick for the Ultimate Universe. Even seeds that were planted for things in USM have been left at the wayside, such as when Parker was first learning his powers, and felt something funny in his forearm/wrists. He said something like "what now?" and that was it, never to be mentioned again.

But you're right, I'm sure they wiretapped me and bugged my house and they probably even have me followed, though I'll never be able to prove it, sneaky bast... or maybe, just MAYBE what I meant was that it sucks that they're making money on a story that's very similar to a story that my friend and I came up with... only ours seemed cooler, but that's biased. Naaaah... they're definately watching me.

 

[squeekness]

Didn't they have a Team Up arc with the Ultimate Fantastic Four that showed the UFF as much older than the UFF is now? That I do recall, especially when UFF as a solo book started up many years after. It's like we just sorta forget that the Team Up arc ever happened.

 

[storyteller]

With my hulk color confusion aside. The issue was pretty easy to understand. A lot of your confusion stems from it being the first issue.

How could nick fury be super strong in ww2 and isnt in the modern day?

I think the plan is to answer the questions that occur between point A and Point D with Point B and Point C in the next issues.

So what im trying to say is the reason you dont know what happened is because thats the point of the comic. Its trying to say what happened in issues 1-5.

 

[squeekness]

I hope that's all it is. I am just not used to having to work this hard reading a comic from a universe I know fairly well (or thought I did anyhow).

 

[K.B.]

Sorry but bad ideas are bad ideas. I do hope 2-5 are A LOT better but so far this isssue is just cold.

 

[Joker]

Didn't they have a Team Up arc with the Ultimate Fantastic Four that showed the UFF as much older than the UFF is now? That I do recall, especially when UFF as a solo book started up many years after. It's like we just sorta forget that the Team Up arc ever happened.

That issue was a joke issue. It not only included that, but it included Skrulls invading the Marvel offices where they were writing Ultimate Team Ups. It's pretty obviously not in continuity.

Yeeeah... you're gonna have to excuse me for not reading the crap that was Ultimate Team-up. Half the stuff they made up in that didn't even stick for the Ultimate Universe. Even seeds that were planted for things in USM have been left at the wayside, such as when Parker was first learning his powers, and felt something funny in his forearm/wrists. He said something like "what now?" and that was it, never to be mentioned again.

Actually, all of Marvel Team Up, other than the previously mentioned joke F4 issue, is in continuity, and alot of it has been refferenced in USM. The Hulk, the Lizard/Man-Thing issue, the Daredevil/Punisher arc, the Iron Man issue (they falsified his origin in the issue, as they did most of the Ultimates), and the Dr. Strange arc have all been refferenced.

And he NEVER looks at his wrist/forearms. I'm looking at the first hardcover, with him learning his powers, right now, and nothing like that is in it. So you're either making things up, or remembering them wrong.

The Ultimate universe is a lot more cohesive than people seem to give it credit for, but the problem with continuity at all is, if you don't read every book, you're going to miss things. It's the same problem with the 616 having gone on for 40 years, but on a smaller scale.

 

[Flash-er]

And he NEVER looks at his wrist/forearms. I'm looking at the first hardcover, with him learning his powers, right now, and nothing like that is in it. So you're either making things up, or remembering them wrong.

I'm not making it up. I've asked the question before in these forums and the answer I got back was that they were planning on giving him organic webshooters to tie in with the first movie, but went against it. So that tells you that in the story he didn't have webs yet. He didn't even have a costume. Here's what I remember about it.

He was in a black sweatshirt and sweatpants. He went to some junkyard/garage and tossed a car and commented on how awesome his strength was. Immediately after that, his arm hurt and he wondered what was up with that. I'd check myself, but I only have the original issues and I don't want to be messing with them.

 

[squeekness]

A little crooked but here it is: