Comics Unrealistic, huh?

[shinlyle]

Preach on! This is exactly what I've been talking about. I'm not married, but hopefully will be in the next year or so. A married Spider-Man is when I came in, and I grew up along with him. Without the love and support of someone he cares about, it's easy to have a really awful spider-man day, come home to his empty apartment with pictures of ex-girlfriends, his ex-wife, and current love triangles, and just blow his own head off. I could see the panel, with him cringed and ready, the gun close to his temple, his spider-sense going crazy with him just going "I know! I know!"

Oh, man....that's funny!

I just hope Joey Q doesn't read that. I can hear his reaction, now...

JQ:"JMS, read this....some fanboy posted this on some stupid message board."

JMS: "Why...this could make us tons of money! I can't wait to write it!"

JQ: "Get started...I'll go leak some info to Wizard and Newsarama to get fanboys pissy about it! LOL"

JMS: "Hey...can I make it a 'Magic Bullet'....descended fromt he one that killed Kennedy...?"

JQ: "YES! And we'll give it 20 variant covers by Skottie Young to help them sell! We've done it again, Joe!"

JMS: "I know, JOE!!!!"

*both laugh manaically*

 

[spider greg]

I'd have to suggest that maybe you're noticing weaker and weaker writing. Since spidey has been married, more and more comics have come out that caused certain people to be pissed. (Sins Past, Sins Remembered, The Other, Clone saga, Iron Spidey, etc,etc)...Nothing has sucked BECAUSE of MJ. That's why everything seems neutral, writers aren't doing the best spidey.

Well to a certain extent I do agree, weak writers are certainly a factor, but it's not like I haven't read any good Spider-man stories, there's been some decent ones, I just don't remember reading any good Peter Parker stories. No more money problems, no school (college) problems, no job problems, except for Spidey's problems I don't remember any Peter Parker problems in God knows how long. In my opinion, (and that's all any of us have here, no real facts) the marriage negates that. I could go into more detail, but I want to go home now and see my own wife and kid.

 

[Captivated]

Married 3 years this June and expecting our first baby in July.

As a token female fan, I started reading at age 12 because Spidey was married. I just thought it was so cool and different from all the other cookie-cutter superheroes. That's responsibility and commitment right there... it's the kind of person I wanted to be when I grew up.

Having a male hero (which most are) surrounded by women makes it easier for female fans to relate, IMO. And I don't mean one-night-stand women, but the kind he has to come home to each night. It doesn't surprise me in the least that the Spider-Man movies made so much money, and the real reason is female moviegoers who came out in droves. Most of the people going to the other superhero movies (X2, FF, BB, etc.) are men.

Quite right, oh insightful one!

I started later in life, but for similar reasons. (Refer to the "Peter Parker is so hot..." I mean, the "MJ is so lucky thread.") May-be they should get a clue and cash in on the marriage instead of using it as a scapegoat.

I have a long time boyfriend (almost 7 years) and no kids... we both have had a busy "different drummer" kind of life...

 

[CConn]

Just because a woman is hot, does not make her shallow. There's that whole "love" factor. A girl would do anything for a guy that would stand by her through anything, a man who would risk his life for her; a man who would stop and shatter time itself if it meant her safety, if he could. He may not be rich, he may not be Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, or Reed Richards, but he doesn't need to be. He's Peter Parker and he loved her. That's all.

In the real world, and in comics, all you need is love.

Besides, Peter isn't ugly or anything. He's just geeky. If we were to assume that MJ was in fact shallow (even though she's not), Peter is actually kinda handsome. And he's Spider-man. So either way, he's a "catch".

And looking at all these people who are married and happy with their husband or wife, it's perfect for Peter to be married.

That's why I said I was generalizing. Still, it would be really odd to see some nobody (and geek in high school to boot) end up with a supermodel. Peter may not look to shabby, but he's still been pretty damn poor for most of his life. Peter's really living a geek's dream in that aspect of his life.

And to me, that's not a bad thing. Like I said, it's a comic, everything's at least a little big unrealistic, the point is to make it at least somewhat believable and obviously enjoyable, and though Quesada may disagree, I think you can do that with the marriage quite easily.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

But see, th' ONE thing everyone seems to forget in all these arguments is this; MJ WASN'T a model when they MET. She was an ASPIRING model/actress. Had they met AFTER she was a model, then yeah, I'd say that's a valid concern. But he knew her when and her career hasn't exactly been stellar, so really I don't see what th' big deal is.

 

[CConn]

But when they met Peter was also the biggest geek in the school. She was way above him on the social ladder. I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it or anything, I'm just saying it's slightly unrealistic. Certainly not as much as Quesada thinks, and definitely not enough to scrap the marriage over it.

 

[Joker]

this poll should be changed to "are you a guy who was a nerd in high school and is now an underpaid teacher who is married/dating a famous supermodel/actress"...

 

[UK_Stu]

I've been happily married for 5 years this summer. I don't have a strong preference for a married or unmarried spidey. BUT now he is married I'd like him to stay that way. It does bring up some interesting storylines and doesn't have to be restrictive in any way.

As I said in a previous post, I always wanted to aspire to my heroes as a kid not relate to them.

 

[spider greg]

Preach on! This is exactly what I've been talking about. I'm not married, but hopefully will be in the next year or so. A married Spider-Man is when I came in, and I grew up along with him. Without the love and support of someone he cares about, it's easy to have a really awful spider-man day, come home to his empty apartment with pictures of ex-girlfriends, his ex-wife, and current love triangles, and just blow his own head off. I could see the panel, with him cringed and ready, the gun close to his temple, his spider-sense going crazy with him just going "I know! I know!"

So basically, you're saying because you started reading Spidey when he was married,they must now stay that way so you you can vicariously live through him, until you get married. Interesting.

 

[Doc Destruction]

this poll should be changed to "are you a guy who was a nerd in high school and is now an underpaid teacher who is married/dating a famous supermodel/actress"...

The point of the poll was to ask if we thought Spider-Man/PP was unrelatable as a married man.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I was a dork in high school who married a girl way hotter than I had any right to with aspirations of a comic career. How's that?

 

[Joker]

You're the exception. And while I dont agree with Joe Q about getting rid of the marriage (I love MJ's character, and the dimension that the marriage gives to Peter), I do agree that its unrealistic. But then again, this is a book about a guy who got bitten by a radioactive spider and instead of dying a horrible slow death from the venom and radiation poisoning got super powers and fights crime. So I can deal with unrealistic.

 

[Mara Jane]

So basically, you're saying because you started reading Spidey when he was married,they must now stay that way so you you can vicariously live through him, until you get married. Interesting.

This is exactly how I felt in 1988 when I was 12. And now, I'm happily married and still reading... (but not for long. )

 

[Norman Osborn]

SHH becoming a "personals" website?

Let's see....Married for 11 years then divorced. Current long term commitment for the past 4 years......So I think I can relate to any spidey relationship .....well except his relationship with Spider-Gods but I'm still relatively young...there's still time!! ....

 

[SpideyInATree]

I'm a minority, once again.

I'm as single as they come. I've had my relationships, with insane women unfortunately. I enjoy being single and keeping my options open right now. I'm only 25 years old. I'm not exactly ready to settle down with someone and start a family. There's still a lot out there for me to experience on my own before I begin sharing it with someone.

It's probably why, especially now, I dislike the marriage and want to see Mary Jane die a gruesome death. I got into the comics as a young boy when he was already married to her. So I've grown up with a Spider-Man who's been married but through the years of reading and growing up I've come to dislike the marriage more and more.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Peter Parker getting married or anything. But I was against Peter marrying Mary Jane. It just didn't seem like the right thing to do, at least to me.

Rereading those old Stan Lee stories with a single Peter really hits home with me more, seeing that I'm a single man, of course. I just have a soft spot for those stories because of the situation I'm in now.

If I were married or in a long term relationship I'm sure my opinion wouldn't be much different. I just don't enjoy Mary Jane. Just never really have. Though J.M. DeMatteis and JMS have been two writers who have gotten me into the character a little bit. Though the whole "Oh yeah, I knew Gwen had relations with your arch nemesis but it just slipped my mind" didn't really help her case in my eyes.

It just seemed to me that Gwen died. Mary Jane was there for him. I saw them more as friends than I could see them getting married. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Dragon]

I don't really understand why this is being taken on a personal level from either side.

Peter Parker is a superhuman with human problems. This makes him a great character and someone I enjoy following. But I certainly don't need for him to be everything I am for me to relate to him. His being married is neither a positive or negative in terms of me connecting with the character. It's all about how well the stories are told. At this point I admit that I'm very bored with the marriage, and I'm increasingly wanting to see it end. But not for the reasons Joe Q is coming out with. They're silly. My problems with the marriage is in how its handled, and straight-up, I don't think MJ is a good match for Peter. She's just superficial fluff IMO. But that's all matters of content. Not that Peter is married.

I do believe the marriage could be remedied with a different approach to the writing. At the same time, whether we as fans are involved in relationships has nothing to do with it either. Our lives are not going to parallel a comic book character's anymore than they do other real people.

In the end, this is entertainment, and all that we need is good stories. When Stan initiated the idea that Peter was someone we could all relate to, he didn't mean in a literal "yes I live exactly the same way" sense. This is just another example of people taking a concept created by someone else and bending and twisting it to fit their perception. The folks here who are saying they'd drop the book simply because he isn't married are as extremist as Joe Q. If a good story is written about the marriage ending, and good character driven stories are written in the aftermath, dropping the book just because MJ isn't there is silly too.

 

[Norman Osborn]

If a good story is written about the marriage ending, and good character driven stories are written in the aftermath, dropping the book just because MJ isn't there is silly too.

I agree with most of what you say...however...

What if Mary Jane and her relationship with Pete are the main aspects of the Spidey titles that contributes to a reader's desire to continue reading. One would argue if you believe the above then you should believe ...ala Clone Saga

"If a good story is written about Pete's reign as Spider-man ending, and good character driven stories are written in the aftermath, dropping the book just because Pete isn't there is silly too"

You can argue that Pete's the central character hence why the examples are different....but as aforementioned....I know of at least 3 posters just here, who deem Pete and Mj's relationship as a central aspect of the comic.....so I really can't fathom why it would be silly to drop the book even if the stories are strong in the after math...JMO

 

[SpideyInATree]

I don't really understand why this is being taken on a personal level from either side.

Peter Parker is a superhuman with human problems. This makes him a great character and someone I enjoy following. But I certainly don't need for him to be everything I am for me to relate to him. His being married is neither a positive or negative in terms of me connecting with the character. It's all about how well the stories are told. At this point I admit that I'm very bored with the marriage, and I'm increasingly wanting to see it end. But not for the reasons Joe Q is coming out with. They're silly. My problems with the marriage is in how its handled, and straight-up, I don't think MJ is a good match for Peter. She's just superficial fluff IMO. But that's all matters of content. Not that Peter is married.

I do believe the marriage could be remedied with a different approach to the writing. At the same time, whether we as fans are involved in relationships has nothing to do with it either. Our lives are not going to parallel a comic book character's anymore than they do other real people.

In the end, this is entertainment, and all that we need is good stories. When Stan initiated the idea that Peter was someone we could all relate to, he didn't mean in a literal "yes I live exactly the same way" sense. This is just another example of people taking a concept created by someone else and bending and twisting it to fit their perception. The folks here who are saying they'd drop the book simply because he isn't married are as extremist as Joe Q. If a good story is written about the marriage ending, and good character driven stories are written in the aftermath, dropping the book just because MJ isn't there is silly too.

I understand where you are coming from and agree. Whether he is married or not should not bear any reason to read or not read the book. But my understanding of the discussion here is the current rumblings of Joe Quesada's opinion on the marriage, how others feel about it, and how we all relate to Peter's marriage situation.

Obviously, from reading this thread, many posters who are pro marriage and pro Mary Jane are married. I didn't read everybody's posts in here word for word so I don't know what everybody said about everything.

But when it comes to me? Hey, I don't care if he's married or not. But I just don't like that he married Mary Jane. And I've read Spider-Man since he's been married...so I'm not dropping the books anytime soon because of her staying or dying.

But her and Peter no more would make me happy.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Well, I've been married 3 years.

I've been readin' Spidey fer 15.

You do th' math.

 

[Dragon]

I agree with most of what you say...however...

What if Mary Jane and her relationship with Pete are the main aspects of the Spidey titles that contributes to a reader's desire to continue reading. One would argue if you believe the above then you should believe ...ala Clone Saga

"If a good story is written about Pete's reign as Spider-man ending, and good character driven stories are written in the aftermath, dropping the book just because Pete isn't there is silly too"

You can argue that Pete's the central character hence why the examples are different....but as aforementioned....I know of at least 3 posters just here, who deem Pete and Mj's relationship as a central aspect of the comic.....so I really can't fathom why it would be silly to drop the book even if the stories are strong in the after math...JMO

Last week I pasted Joe Q's comments about his feelings on the marriage in one of the many threads on the subject. I don't even remember which at the moment. Joe tried to fortify his argument by quoting a fan's comments about how Peter isn't supposed to be a family man and so forth, all of which is bull. Stan Lee was writing Peter as being family-oriented since High School. He was considering proposing to Betty just after his graduation. Most kids that age wouldn't be ready to do such a thing. He wanted to marry Gwen, MJ, considered it with Black Cat. If he saw marriage possiblities with her, then that's a dyed-in-the-wool family man.

At the same time, this comic book is and always will be about Peter Parker, Spider-Man. Not Pete & MJ. I understand that since they've been married for 20 years, MJ seems as much a part of the book for some as the Reb & Blue costume. Maybe because I started reading long before is my reason for not seeing MJ as vital to the comics. Maybe also, because I feel that the point at which they got married was a period of mostly really bad writing and artwork that I have little nostalgia for that period.

But I know for sure that I only care about good stories. I've certainly given the marriage a chance. And as much as I don't like the marriage, I'm at least willing to say that the comics can still be good with the marriage intact. So I think it's a bit unreasonable for someone to say that even if the writing and characterization is good- they'd drop the books simply because Peter isn't married to MJ- especially considering the non-issue that the marriage has become. If the comics could continue after Gwen's death because the writing was pretty good, it could without MJ as well.

I mean, I suspect that if the marriage ends under the Quesada Regime, the books will go downhill anyway,because he's not a good editor-in-chief, and hires writers that tend to veer in the wrong direction. But we need to be fair and separate the two items. Spidey is still a great character and would be so with or without MJ.

 

[Dragon]

I understand where you are coming from and agree. Whether he is married or not should not bear any reason to read or not read the book. But my understanding of the discussion here is the current rumblings of Joe Quesada's opinion on the marriage, how others feel about it, and how we all relate to Peter's marriage situation.

Obviously, from reading this thread, many posters who are pro marriage and pro Mary Jane are married. I didn't read everybody's posts in here word for word so I don't know what everybody said about everything.

But when it comes to me? Hey, I don't care if he's married or not. But I just don't like that he married Mary Jane. And I've read Spider-Man since he's been married...so I'm not dropping the books anytime soon because of her staying or dying.

But her and Peter no more would make me happy.

My point is that I agree that Joe Q is wrong for saying that fans can't relate to a married Peter. But fans who are saying that the only way they'll read Spidey is if he's shackled to MJ are equally wrong.

I maintain the ONLY thing the writers should be focused on is telling good character-driven stories with Spidey. Not on finding artificial reasons to either end the marriage or keep it together.

 

[Doc Destruction]

My point is that I agree that Joe Q is wrong for saying that fans can't relate to a married Peter. But fans who are saying that the only way they'll read Spidey is if he's shackled to MJ are equally wrong.

I maintain the ONLY thing the writers should be focused on is telling good character-driven stories with Spidey. Not on finding artificial reasons to either end the marriage or keep it together.

AMEN.

 

[Captivated]

...As I said in a previous post, I always wanted to aspire to my heroes as a kid not relate to them.

That's right... and in Spider-Man, you can get the best of both.

With Peter we see that he has his feet in the "real" world. That is, he has struggles AND joys we can relate to... money worries, guilt, relationship problems, being misunderstood, desiring love, finding it and then fearing its loss, working for a living, friends (at least he used to have friends) enemies, time issues, responsibilities...

And the bottomeline is... one of the things that makes him so great... is that his heroism is also something we can relate and aspire to. I'm obviously NOT talking about the spider-powers, because that's not really what makes him a hero... it's the decision to keep trying when utterly exhausted, the struggle to know what's the right thing to do and then doing it, it's getting up and trying again after a failure, making a committment and keeping it, loving without gile, overcoming guilt and bitterness... trying your best to help others when it's in your power to do so...

Everyone, no matter what age can relate to the heart of the character in that way.

There is a reason they say "love makes the world go round." Most people (unless emotionally damaged or sociopaths), from toddlers to geriatrics, want to love and be loved. It's the most relatable thing there is.

My nephew is 12 and HE has a "girlfriend." (They are totally into the who likes who thing at that young age.) He is also totally cool with Spider-Man being married. In fact, after watching SM1 & 2 (hold your groans, you bah-movie-hum-bugs) when I told the kids that, in the comics Peter and MJ got married, NOT ONE rolled their eyes and said, well, THAT blows... they thought it was COOL and wanted to know more about it.

If Spider-Man was just about romantic tension, getting the couple together in marriage might have put a bite in story posibilities... but it's about so much more!

 

[shinlyle]

My point is that I agree that Joe Q is wrong for saying that fans can't relate to a married Peter. But fans who are saying that the only way they'll read Spidey is if he's shackled to MJ are equally wrong.

I maintain the ONLY thing the writers should be focused on is telling good character-driven stories with Spidey. Not on finding artificial reasons to either end the marriage or keep it together.

Preach it, man!

I am against them ending the marriage....but if it were to happen, and it were to feel like the NATURAL progression in the lives of both characters....then I'd live with it. If it were a well-written story that I could get into (something I don't tend to get from the Spidey books anymore), then I might even learn to like it.

However, the dissolution of the marriage for the sake of ending the marriage is total BS.


Good post, Dragon.

 

[Silverstein]

Preach it, man!

I am against them ending the marriage....but if it were to happen, and it were to feel like the NATURAL progression in the lives of both characters....then I'd live with it. If it were a well-written story that I could get into (something I don't tend to get from the Spidey books anymore), then I might even learn to like it.

However, the dissolution of the marriage for the sake of ending the marriage is total BS.


Good post, Dragon.

That's the big thing though. It is not a natural progression. They're not looking out for what's best for spidey or the fans. Joe Q hates MJ and wants to end it. I hated Superman because he really had no equal, he was usually better than everyone else. They had to weaken him to make things fair. I hated batman because people typically write him as being able to do anything with prep time. But yet I gave them both fair and equal chances....And now I like DC a lot more than what Marvel is throwing out.

If I was Joe Q, I would have just thrown Superman and Batman away and came up with something else.

Peter is obsessed with MJ. And whether they got together because of Gwen or not doesn't matter because he loves her now.


Oh and the "secret" she kept for all these years is BS. She didn't keep any secrets, writers decided to go into spidey's past instead of come up with new and interesting stories. WRITERS did that to spidey not MJ. WRITERS raped Black Cat and decided she only got into what she does because of that (not because of her father), WRITERS decided that spidey should talk to ants and stuff.

It would be natural for them to stick together. And only grow closer. If it seems natural that MJ would leave him because he's risking his life everyday to stop crime because it's the right thing to do....Then cops, firemen, and soldiers can not get married.

So basically that's all it is...Joe Q ending the marriage for the sake of ending it. There's no valid reason. The hottest girls in my school are not dating the hottest guys. A friend of mine, Brooke, is dating a kid who's pretty much a dork/nerd/geek whatever. Even she admits that he's not the hottest guy in school (just not in those words), yet she's dating him because he is...though.....the NICEST guy in school. It's a stereotype to think that because a girl is hot she wouldn't date a "geek".

I can list several girls who are "hot" that like guys who are not awesome football player types.

And remembering that Peter is actually handsome, I don't understand or see a valid argument for why she wouldn't stick with him.

Anyone saying she would not marry him makes her sound incredibly shallow. Shallow working on real world rules...

But then if you consider that this is a world of about 3 fat people, super heroes and Galactus...it makes even more sense.

(Also, you don't marry the bad boy. You marry the guy with a promising future. The one who loves you, not the jackass who just wants to bang you.)