Utopia#Part- 1 The one world government

[Spider-Bite]

Here's my plan to world peace:

1.Legalize weed
2.Tax the hell out of it
3. Use these BILLIONS to create water purifying machines, fund education, etc.

Legalizing weed would be irrelevant to your other ideas. It would simply help our strained budget.

It's not that simple. We can't just go into another country and start meddling in their education and economy, like were doing in Iraq right now. Half the world has guns pointed at each other and are firing those guns at this moment in time.

 

[Spider-Bite]

It's a bit of both.

I do not like the idea of one world government

Right now 300 million Americans pay "x' amount of money per year to roduce NASA. Imagine if all 7 billion people paid that same "X" amount each year. NASA would be huge, and the manned moon base would grow and be a much better success. Before you know it, we'd be exploring the galaxy. Our would will be larger than it is now. the universe is huge, yet you want us to remain divided and seperated here at home on this tiny little rock?

and I beleive that an area that wants independence like Chechnya, Kosovo, Transnistria, North Cyprus, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Somaliland, and others should get independence.

I didn't say we should use military force to force nations to join if they don't want to. That would fail miserably and create terrorists or patriots. My point is that they would eventually choose to for safety and economic reasons.
Our government would need to adopt tolerance and acceptance policies, and that would be easy. A one world government would have a much more diverse selection of voters participating in democracy. politicians like to get elected. If one politicain supports harming an entire group, it becomes easy for the opposition to vow to protect that group, and that entire group will vote in mass quanities to tip the election in their favor. This is why people will join. They will be able to continue their way of life free of persecution.

I feel that a world government will not be equal and will be dominated by the G8 and China. And I feel that the Earth has too many cultures and hatreds to allow a single world government.

To me this sounds like the argument somebody would have made 20 years ago in opposition to gay marriage. "it will never work, it will never happen, there are too many hatreds'

Instead we should strive for continental blocks like the European Union, Community of South American Nations, African Union, and the Caribbean Community, and the United Nations and work towards integration, co-operation, and economic unity while maintaining independence, soverignity, and cultural diversity.

Think of how much money we'd save on one military? And how much destruction 4 or 5 humungous powers like you described, could cause on each other?

But if we were one government, and we used social programs to mix up the culture every time we joined, it would be difficult to draw lines and seperate us later.

While I beleive that world peace is impossible to obtain ,and if so,impossible to maintain (hey that rhymes ), I don't see the harm in promoting it and trying to strive for it. Peace is a good thing after all.

Propose a better idea that would offer the world hope for the future? A lot of people would feel that salvation is on the way if the U.S. announced this plan today.

I don't think that we are going to go extinct within the next 50 years. I think that we as a species will see the year 3007. However, your plan has no chance of working. It relies on people dropping a human emotion, hatred. That will never happen, nor should it.

hatred should be dropped. You make it sound like a dog can't be pody trained. It can. And humans have more free will and self awareness than any other species. We have instincts, but unlike a baby deer, we can't walk in 10 minutes after were born. The reason we remain so vulnerable for so many years, is that we are brains are desined to be less instinctive and have higher reasoning skills.

Your plan is also far too socialist, and I am not talking about universal health care and free college education. While I don't beleive that the United States should adopt a universal health care program, it's not going to turn us into pinko Commie bastards. I'm talking about economic. While there are going to be people who like the ideal of socialism while at the same time, there are going to be people who are completely opposed to the idea of the government interfering with economic affairs and forcing corporations to pay a so-called "payroll tax." Also, socialism hinders economic development and innovation.

I believe we should wait to do the universal health care. it's too dangerous with the debt we already have. I'd be all for it if we weren't 10 trillion in debt.

I'm not saying that capitalism is perfect, some degrees of government intervention is required. But history has shown that socialism, to the degree that you want, has failed. And that as long as capitalism doesn't reach to a point where workers are completely abused and have the oppourtunity to join the upper class, it succeeds. Not only that history downright proves that a socialist state will lead to dictatorship. Every single socialist state has become a dictatorship and future socialist states will become dictatorships also (take a look at Venezuela which is becoming both a socialist state and a dictatorship).

History has not shown that socialism is bad. That's like saying history has shown that a light bulb can never be built. Thomas Eddison took 10,000 tries before he found a design that actually worked. 10,000! But he found one that works.

It's biased to and illogical to compare, support, or oppose a social policy based on the results of other social policies. According to your logic it was a big mistake for the government to create NASA and send man to the moon. That was HUGE government right there, and NASA has contributed greatly to this country, socially, and economically.

What about the death penalty? Is that big government? Deciding who lives and who dies? Look at history, and the historical slippery slopes, and all the thigns governments has done to society when deciding who lives and who dies. Wouldn't it be better to avoid that slippery slope all together and be done with it?

i'm not trying to be rude, but I feel that most republicans, yourself included, are hypocrites on the "big government" issue. You dont really care whether it's big government or not, you just use it in your arguments, and that's dishonest, because it's quite clear then whenever it helps the rich, or mixes with religion, or something that involves killing people, you guys are suddenly all for big government. I know you aren't quite like that, but you said yourself that you supported Bush's space vision, which is VERY BIG government, so when you say "it's too socialist" it sounds dishonest.

What you should say is "If we do your plan then this will happen, which will be very bad for the world."

You say you want the world sperated into 4 or 5 big powers, yet you oppose my plan. If my plan failed to create a one world government, it will still cause this country to be huge and join up with a ton of other countries and probably create an American union prior to joining up with other continents.

I feel that you oppose this plan, without any reason for opposing it, other than it's the government doing something, instead of doing nothing. You still haven't explained how people would be hurt by my plan. You basically said it wouldn't work, and you don't want it to either, because you oppose living together with the rest of the world.

There is a reason cro-magnon outlived the Neanderthaul. neanderthaul's couldn't communicate and organize their efforts in the form of a community. We could. We should use our advantage and work together as a large collective route, otherwise were doing it the Neanderthaul way, which has and will result in extinction. We should act like humans, and not cavemen stuck in the past.

 

[Outsiderzedge]

You lost me at joining with Mexico...

No Utopia that I can possibly conceive off would involve Mexico, let alone joining with them.

 

[CyberFaust]

utopia would consist of Mountain Dew, chicks and porn, in that order

 

[Spider-Bite]

You lost me at joining with Mexico...

No Utopia that I can possibly conceive off would involve Mexico, let alone joining with them.

you see you are the obstacle standing in the way of world peace. This is not the first time you have revealed your bigotry.

You feel that way because you are prejudice, but had you grown up in the future I have laid out, you would not feel that way, because of all the diversity you would have exposed to at a young age.

edit... my sister is half mexican. You gotta problem with that? If so please voice it right now, so you can be banned.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Right now 300 million Americans pay "x' amount of money per year to roduce NASA. Imagine if all 7 billion people paid that same "X" amount each year. NASA would be huge, and the manned moon base would grow and be a much better success. Before you know it, we'd be exploring the galaxy. Our would will be larger than it is now. the universe is huge, yet you want us to remain divided and seperated here at home on this tiny little rock?

NASA is already huge. The only reason why NASA is facing troubles these days is because:
1. Tom Delay is out of power and he was one of NASA's biggest supporters.

2. NASA became one of Bush's pet projects to distract us from the problems Iraq mostly. For some reason the Democrats developed this mentality that anything Bush supports, they must automatically be against.

I didn't say we should use military force to force nations to join if they don't want to. That would fail miserably and create terrorists or patriots. My point is that they would eventually choose to for safety and economic reasons.

We shouldn't be uniting with other governments period.

Our government would need to adopt tolerance and acceptance policies, and that would be easy. A one world government would have a much more diverse selection of voters participating in democracy. politicians like to get elected. If one politicain supports harming an entire group, it becomes easy for the opposition to vow to protect that group, and that entire group will vote in mass quanities to tip the election in their favor. This is why people will join. They will be able to continue their way of life free of persecution.

Not going to happen at all. One world government will be dominated by the G8 + China and the rest are going to get screwed over.

To me this sounds like the argument somebody would have made 20 years ago in opposition to gay marriage. "it will never work, it will never happen, there are too many hatreds'

Gay marriage wasn't even an issue 20 years ago. And this homophobia is nothing more than a petty hatred. Arabs have good reasons to hate the Israelis, just as the Israelis have good reasons to hate the Arabs.

Think of how much money we'd save on one military? And how much destruction 4 or 5 humungous powers like you described, could cause on each other?

We would still be spending $100 billion + on a single military. Not much is saved.

But if we were one government, and we used social programs to mix up the culture every time we joined, it would be difficult to draw lines and seperate us later.

NO NO NO NO! We should not become one homogenous culture. The Earth has always been multiple cultures and should stay that way.

Propose a better idea that would offer the world hope for the future? A lot of people would feel that salvation is on the way if the U.S. announced this plan today.

I really doubt that people would think that think that salvation is on the way if the US announced this plan. My plan (militarily) would go like this:

1. Start treating other nations (excluding Iran, Syria, and North Korea), with more respect and stop being the policeman of the world, bullying others into our will. Treat them as equals, not as inferiors. I would end the embargo with Cuba and try and prove to that ******* Hugo Chavez that we are not trying to overthrow him and assassinate him.

2. Withdraw troops from Germany, Japan, and the Middle East (excluding Iraq due to the current situation).

3. Destabilize North Korean politics and move towards Korean Unification.

4. Reform NATO into a global alliance including Japan, ANZUS, the Mediterranean Dialogue, and nations that have announced plans to join NATO.

hatred should be dropped. You make it sound like a dog can't be pody trained. It can. And humans have more free will and self awareness than any other species. We have instincts, but unlike a baby deer, we can't walk in 10 minutes after were born. The reason we remain so vulnerable for so many years, is that we are brains are desined to be less instinctive and have higher reasoning skills.

Hatred is a human emotion and makes us human. That is why it shouldn't be dropped.

History has not shown that socialism is bad. That's like saying history has shown that a light bulb can never be built. Thomas Eddison took 10,000 tries before he found a design that actually worked. 10,000! But he found one that works.

Oh yes, just ignore that every socialist nation became a complete and total dictatorship and ended up collapsing, and yes, history has not shown pure socialism to be bad.

i'm not trying to be rude, but I feel that most republicans, yourself included, are hypocrites on the "big government" issue. You dont really care whether it's big government or not, you just use it in your arguments, and that's dishonest, because it's quite clear then whenever it helps the rich, or mixes with religion, or something that involves killing people, you guys are suddenly all for big government. I know you aren't quite like that, but you said yourself that you supported Bush's space vision, which is VERY BIG government, so when you say "it's too socialist" it sounds dishonest.

Don't confuse me with a lot of Republicans. I am a very different type of Republican.

I don't have a problem with "In God We Trust" or "One Nation Under God," but we should remain very secular and I find it to be complete BS on the neo-cons part to be all religious. Also I'm an athiest so I really don't like the idea of thinking this nation as a "Christian nation." The reason why I don't have a problem with "In God We Trust" and so forth is because to me, God is just a word.

I do not think that the government should be doing Bush's tax break plan. The only reason why I feel that the government should help small business with the minimum wage increase because government is the one increasing the costs.

I do not think that the government should screw the poor over. I feel that the government should help them get on their own feet when they fall, but they have to walk the walk on their own, not hold their hand throughout the entire process.

I support NASA heavily because it is exploration and I beleive that exploration will further increase our knowledge as individuals.

The death penalty is not big government. It is dealing punishment to monsters who deserve it. If anything abolishing the death penalty is big government because it means that our tax dollars are being spent to shelter, guard, feed, etc. to these monsters.

I support a strong military because while it is "big government" it is the defense of the nation's territory, soverignty, and it's people. Which is the governments responsiblity. Also I come from a military family.

And I oppose the PATRIOT Act on the grounds that it is not only unconstitutional, it is also big government.

I like to think of myself as a Jeffersonian styled Republican. Sticking very close to the Constitution, respecting liberties, small government, equal to both the rich and poor, encouraging exploration.

You say you want the world sperated into 4 or 5 big powers, yet you oppose my plan. If my plan failed to create a one world government, it will still cause this country to be huge and join up with a ton of other countries and probably create an American union prior to joining up with other continents.

I did not say that the world should be separated into 4 or 5 big powers. I just support the creation of continental unions that allow us to work together more yet allowing us to remain separate.

I feel that you oppose this plan, without any reason for opposing it, other than it's the government doing something, instead of doing nothing. You still haven't explained how people would be hurt by my plan. You basically said it wouldn't work, and you don't want it to either, because you oppose living together with the rest of the world.

I oppose your plan because it isn't practical at all. It is against my personal beleifs on how government should be run. I do not support the idea of one world government. I don't like the idea of one world culture, we should be multi-cultured and bask in its glory.

There is a reason cro-magnon outlived the Neanderthaul. neanderthaul's couldn't communicate and organize their efforts in the form of a community. We could. We should use our advantage and work together as a large collective route, otherwise were doing it the Neanderthaul way, which has and will result in extinction. We should act like humans, and not cavemen stuck in the past.

I'm not saying that we should not work together. I just don't think that we should be politically united. Integration is good, but we should each have our own separate cultural identities.

 

[Super Kal]

you'd be surprised what one man can do when basically the entire world thinks he's God Almighty...

 

[Spider-Bite]

2. NASA became one of Bush's pet projects to distract us from the problems Iraq mostly. For some reason the Democrats developed this mentality that anything Bush supports, they must automatically be against.

LOL. It's funny because it's true. knock knock missile defense shield.

We shouldn't be uniting with other governments period.

that's the mindset that's gonna get us all killed. seperating us by borders is no different or better than seperating us by skin color.

Not going to happen at all. One world government will be dominated by the G8 + China and the rest are going to get screwed over.

they might have more power the way California is a powerful state. More individual voters. But that's fair. There is no reason to assume that the Chinese are all evil people.
I disagree with the methods of the Chinese government, but it's not evil. They aren't out to murder all of the non chinese or anybody who is different from them.

Gay marriage wasn't even an issue 20 years ago. And this homophobia is nothing more than a petty hatred. Arabs have good reasons to hate the Israelis, just as the Israelis have good reasons to hate the Arabs.

no they don't. Nobody has any good reason to prejudge an entire group of citizens like that. According to that logic I should hate all Christains.

We would still be spending $100 billion + on a single military. Not much is saved.

With more people paying into it, you can lower the amount each tax payer spends. Were already the strongest with 300,000,000 people paying into it. Imagine when that number doubles or multiplies by 10. How powerful do we really need to be?

NO NO NO NO! We should not become one homogenous culture. The Earth has always been multiple cultures and should stay that way.

I don't want one culture. I merely want people with different cultures living together. Exposure promotes tolerance. It is something the human race must do. If we do manage to avoid self annihilation what will happen when we go interstellar? If we can't manage living next door to a gay person or a muslim, then how are we going to act when confronted with an alien culture more different from anything we've ever imagined? We absolutly have to learn to live with those who are different from us. Liberals have already accomplished that. It's time for the rest of you to get with the times.

I really doubt that people would think that think that salvation is on the way if the US announced this plan. My plan (militarily) would go like this:

1. Start treating other nations (excluding Iran, Syria, and North Korea),

That's ******ed. According to that logic nobody should treat us with respect. You aren't going to get respect if you don't show it. Not showing muslim nations respect is what got us where we are today. how do you think we became enemies with Iran? We disrespected their democracy in a major way 50 years ago.

with more respect and stop being the policeman of the world,

I believe we do need to do that to a certain degree.

bullying others into our will. Treat them as equals, not as inferiors. I would end the embargo with Cuba and try and prove to that ******* Hugo Chavez that we are not trying to overthrow him and assassinate him.

LOL. That guy's insane. I'm a socialist but I wont say "socialism or die" and when it comes to the press I believe in extremely, extremely, extremely small government. Basically keep it illegal to teach people how to build A-bombs and leave it at that.

2. Withdraw troops from Germany, Japan, and the Middle East (excluding Iraq due to the current situation).

If we did that the world's entire oil supply would go up in a puff of smoke, resulting in world wide economic devestation. If your talking long term, after we get off of oil, I'm all for that. Not because I don't care, but they are a socially primitive culture, and they will only advance if we let them make mistakes so they can learn from them. We are only making things worse over there.

3. Destabilize North Korean politics and move towards Korean Unification.

No comment, because I really don't feel confident or decided upon any solution for that situation. The south koreans would see a 30% drop in economic spending power if they become one government with North Korea.

4. Reform NATO into a global alliance including Japan, ANZUS, the Mediterranean Dialogue, and nations that have announced plans to join NATO.

That sounds good. I have to point out that my plan is not intended to be the beginning and end of the path to World Peace. We have to have a lot of other intelligent foreign policies leading up and along with it.

Hatred is a human emotion and makes us human. That is why it shouldn't be dropped.

It should be controlled. People are capable of keeping their emotions in check.

Oh yes, just ignore that every socialist nation became a complete and total dictatorship and ended up collapsing, and yes, history has not shown pure socialism to be bad.

Really? You see that tends to be what happens to every major power from one century to the next. Did China collapse? Yes it is a dictatorship, but did it collapse? The United States didnt' collapse either, and it's not a dictatorship. In fact for the last half of a century the socialist party has given us surplusses while the small government party has given us deficits. And the socialist party brough this into an actual democracy while the small government party opposed it. I'm talking about black voting rights in case you didn't notice.

Also see this post and realize how ridiculous it is to say "I oppose big government." http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11408758&postcount=85

Don't confuse me with a lot of Republicans. I am a very different type of Republican.

Your more progressive because your younger. You do have a lot in common with them though, and you take their "anti-government" thing in without question. The reality is that republicans say that to you as an excuse when corporations bribe them into doing nothing.

I don't have a problem with "In God We Trust" or "One Nation Under God," but we should remain very secular and I find it to be complete BS on the neo-cons part to be all religious. Also I'm an athiest so I really don't like the idea of thinking this nation as a "Christian nation." The reason why I don't have a problem with "In God We Trust" and so forth is because to me, God is just a word.

I'm assuming your talking about the fine print on money. I dont' care because it's not really worth the time or effort.

I do not think that the government should be doing Bush's tax break plan. The only reason why I feel that the government should help small business with the minimum wage increase because government is the one increasing the costs.

I can't argue.

The death penalty is not big government. It is dealing punishment to monsters who deserve it.

This is the biggest form of government there is. We are not Gods. It is not our place to decide who gets to live and who dies. It's not our place. Nobody should have that kind of power, and history has proven that is the most dangerous power you can give the government because they go right down the slippery slope. They will keep finding new things to execute people for. This is huge government. You may support it, but don't pretend it's small government.

If anything abolishing the death penalty is big government because it means that our tax dollars are being spent to shelter, guard, feed, etc. to these monsters.

Actually it costs more to put somebody on death row for five years than it does to keep them in prison for their entire life span. There is a mandatory five appeals that must be exhausted, and it can't happen any faster than five years, but it usually goes on for decades to allow the time for new evidence to be discovered. There are several levels of government approval it has to pass through to make sure we dont' execute the innocent. The government doesn't take it lightly.

And I oppose the PATRIOT Act on the grounds that it is not only unconstitutional, it is also big government.

Uncostitutional is a good reason, but big government is irrelevant and that is proven.

I did not say that the world should be separated into 4 or 5 big powers. I just support the creation of continental unions that allow us to work together more yet allowing us to remain separate.

If a country is socially ready and willing to join up with us why would you want to say no?

I'm not saying that we should not work together.

yes you are. That is your entire anti-government argument. Your saying the country can't work together collectively. You refer to working together as big bad government. Your also saying we "shouldn't be uniting with other countries. period" You are totally saying we can't work together.

I just don't think that we should be politically united.

Uniting is not a bad thing.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Originally Posted by blind_fury
You trust government way too much. If a world government starts taking away liberties and rigging elections you won't have anywhere to run or hide.

don't hide. fight back. I believe we have an obligatin to allow refugees from Iraq to live here, but I feel those refugees are cowards. they should stay and help build a better Iraq.

 

[Addendum]

What socialist party are you referring to?

Socialist Party USA?

That group has a massive membership of 1,600. Add another 1,600 people and you have a sell-out crowd in a minor-league baseball stadium, or a packed house for a Montreal Expos game before they moved to D.C.

 

[Spider-Bite]

What socialist party are you referring to?

Socialist Party USA?

That group has a massive membership of 1,600. Add another 1,600 people and you have a sell-out crowd in a minor-league baseball stadium, or a packed house for a Montreal Expos game before they moved to D.C.

umm, they are called democrats. they make up almost half of the country. It's more like 150 million than it is like 1,600.

 

[Addendum]

The Democratic party in the U.S. isn't the socialist party.

First, there was the Socialist Party of America, but then it folded in the late 60's - early 70s. A few years after that party started, you then had the World Socialist Party of the United States.

Then, in 1973, you then had this little party called the Socialist Party USA, which started in 1973 and claimed to carry on the tradition of the Socialist Party of America.

History and the Google- it's such a bastard to people who don't use it

 

[Spider-Bite]

The Democratic party in the U.S. isn't the socialist party.

First, there was the Socialist Party of America, but then it folded in the late 60's - early 70s. A few years after that party started, you then had the World Socialist Party of the United States.

Then, in 1973, you then had this little party called the Socialist Party USA, which started in 1973 and claimed to carry on the tradition of the Socialist Party of America.

History and the Google- it's such a bastard to people who don't use it

what I meant by socialist party was the party who supports socialistic policies, such as helping the poor, minimum wage hikes, Affirmative Action, etc.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Jesus is not gonna like this

 

[Spider-Bite]

Jesus is not gonna like this

Satan will.t: Then Jesus, Satan, and I can all sit down and play cards.