Was the action that much better?

[AVP82]

Was he going to use the cars to drive off of the island?

Defense to protect him from all those darts.

 

[Avalanche]

I'm sorry, since good action usually has substance, motive, and logic, I was too distracted by how powerful Magneto had suddenly become (considering his previous power levels and also his inability to stop the needles of the cure darts), why he wouldn't just take a boat, how everyone was able to survive him dropping it where and like he did, how it didn't buckle in the center after he dropped it, and just how incredibly pointless and reckless the GGB fit into his overall...plan...to...do...what exactly?

I was also wondering how A Number One Fugitive and his band of 60+ mutants, many fugitives, somehow crossed the entire country and no one noticed.

You're picking at plot wholes and the story, not the action.

In X2, Deathstryke wouldn't have been able to throw Wolverine with such height and force. The exploding soldiers grenades would have left them in a bloody pulp. Pyro throwing fire wouldn have done a lot more harm to people who simply 'got back up'.

X2 had mistakes of logic too. Liberties are taken to make a good action scene. It has been the same for all the X-Men movies.

 

[Avalanche]

Was he going to use the cars to drive off of the island?

No, he was going to hurl them at his opponents. Did you miss that bit?

 

[skruloos]

My main problem with X3 was not the quality of the action scenes, which I thought were remarkeably great from an effects standpoint. It just seemed like a lot of it was spectacle, like it was put in the film because it looked cool and not necessarily character driven or creative. Sure, it was cool to see Magneto throw cars or Storm summon lightning and fly around, but it wasn't particularly creative. I thought the X-Jet sequence in X2 was a better showcase for the extent of Storm's powers. She summoned and controlled quite a few tornadoes. I also thought that Magneto's prison break and his pulling the pins from the guards' grenades were very clever uses of his powers. Much more interesting then seeing him crush cars or throw them around. And while I love seeing Iceman ice up, I didn't think the Dragonball-esque fight he had with Pyro was any more interesting then him simply blowing into a bottle of Dr. Pepper to ice up Wolverine's drink. All of these seemed like creative uses of each individuals' powers and made them seem like real people who could reason out practical ways of using theri gifts. It wasn't just spectacle for the sake of spectacle.

Seeing Storm fly, spin, and send bolts of lighting was cool the first time they showed it. It was interesting to see Magneto throw cars around in X1. By the time we get to the final battle in X3, it had become old hat and no longer kept my interest.

 

[bosef982]

My main problem with X3 was not the quality of the action scenes, which I thought were remarkeably great from an effects standpoint. It just seemed like a lot of it was spectacle, like it was put in the film because it looked cool and not necessarily character driven or creative. Sure, it was cool to see Magneto throw cars or Storm summon lightning and fly around, but it wasn't particularly creative. I thought the X-Jet sequence in X2 was a better showcase for the extent of Storm's powers. She summoned and controlled quite a few tornadoes. I also thought that Magneto's prison break and his pulling the pins from the guards' grenades were very clever uses of his powers. Much more interesting then seeing him crush cars or throw them around. And while I love seeing Iceman ice up, I didn't think the Dragonball-esque fight he had with Pyro was any more interesting then him simply blowing into a bottle of Dr. Pepper to ice up Wolverine's drink. All of these seemed like creative uses of each individuals' powers and made them seem like real people who could reason out practical ways of using theri gifts. It wasn't just spectacle for the sake of spectacle.

Seeing Storm fly, spin, and send bolts of lighting was cool the first time they showed it. It was interesting to see Magneto throw cars around in X1. By the time we get to the final battle in X3, it had become old hat and no longer kept my interest.

That's what I felt as well. It wasn't character driven. It was a fratboy's orgastic action blowout, that's about it. Not neccessarily creative.

About Plotholes in X2. Onecould say Pryo was controlling the flames so as to only force the people back, not crips them. There's also a PG-13 rating to keep in mind here.

But the GGB was entirely unneccessary and didn't flow with logic. And yes, while I'm pointing at plotholes, plot is linked with action and the two must complement one another. But, I suppose just as Ratner and Co. did, you forgot that.

 

[WorthyStevens]

That's what I felt as well. It wasn't character driven. It was a fratboy's orgastic action blowout, that's about it. Not neccessarily creative.

About Plotholes in X2. Onecould say Pryo was controlling the flames so as to only force the people back, not crips them. There's also a PG-13 rating to keep in mind here.

But the GGB was entirely unneccessary and didn't flow with logic. And yes, while I'm pointing at plotholes, plot is linked with action and the two must complement one another. But, I suppose just as Ratner and Co. did, you forgot that.

So what you're saying is, for action to be good it has to compliment the plot?

If so, I disagree. The plot does not make an action scene good. It's the action that makes the action good.

Case in point, Terminator 3. The flamboyance of the crane sequence had nothing to do with the plot. Did that make the crane sequence not a good action scene? No.

 

[skruloos]

So what you're saying is, for action to be good it has to compliment the plot?

If so, I disagree. The plot does not make an action scene good. It's the action that makes the action good.

Case in point, Terminator 3. The flamboyance of the crane sequence had nothing to do with the plot. Did that make the crane sequence not a good action scene? No.

I think you're definition of good is different from mine or bosefs. What do you think makes an action scene good? Quality of effects? Pure visceral enjoyment?

For me, I prefer action scenes that are motivated by characters and the plot. The crane scene in Terminator 3 was fun to watch but that's it. It was an action scene that didn't really have much emotional investment in it or resonance. It was spectacle. It's sole reason to be in the movie wasn't to exist as a plot point or to show off a character moment, it was there to look cool.

It is the character moments in action scenes that help seperate the James Camerons of the world from the Michael Bays. They both make really great spectacles but Cameron spends a lot of time developing character moments making the action resonate more. If you don't care enough about the characters, then who cares about the danger the action presents?

 

[The Kid]

compared to the one on one fights in the other flicks, the pyro iceman fight was...

poop
it was over before it began.

Best fight was... Wolverine vs armstrong guy.

 

[AVP82]

Well I think the bridge also serves as an easy retreat too, especially with Phoenix going all ballistic. If there wasn't a bridge to retreat, she would have killed everybody on Alcatraz.

 

[liamoversion2]

Well I think the bridge also serves as an easy retreat too, especially with Phoenix going all ballistic. If there wasn't a bridge to retreat, she would have killed everybody on Alcatraz.

Yeah... that's what makes it a terrible screenplay.

 

[DACrowe]

I'd just like to point out to someone on another page calling the Spidey fights cartoonish or power rangers.

While I do admit the Jean/Xavier scene was very well done the rest of the action was great displays of CGI but it lacked suspense. X1 had suspense. And the Wolverine scenes were better in X2 and Nightcrawler's attack was more exciting.

Anyway, the reason I posted was it was odd but this person unintentionally naied it. Though in X2 they didn't work together in team efforts as much ( would argue for $70 million in X1 they did), when they were together in the snow, running down a tunnel or on the jet or White House at the end they felt like Claremont's X-Men. When they "came to the rescue" in the climax of X3 it felt like the Power Rangers. Y'know they stood in a line and fought serpately "paawns" and mutant goons with generic powers that all seemed to have Toad jumping and they would faclessly die and the X-Men would snap witty banter.

Really lines like "Whose hiding ********" is PG-13 power rangers. No where near the scope of Spidey 3, really. Or X2 for that matter.

 

[WorthyStevens]

I think you're definition of good is different from mine or bosefs. What do you think makes an action scene good? Quality of effects? Pure visceral enjoyment?

For me, I prefer action scenes that are motivated by characters and the plot. The crane scene in Terminator 3 was fun to watch but that's it. It was an action scene that didn't really have much emotional investment in it or resonance. It was spectacle. It's sole reason to be in the movie wasn't to exist as a plot point or to show off a character moment, it was there to look cool.

It is the character moments in action scenes that help seperate the James Camerons of the world from the Michael Bays. They both make really great spectacles but Cameron spends a lot of time developing character moments making the action resonate more. If you don't care enough about the characters, then who cares about the danger the action presents?

For me, it's the effects and the visceral enjoyment.

As long as the effects are well done, and the action is well choreographed and placed, I don't have a problem.

 

[Tony Stark]

Most of the effects were just more wire work crap. They didn't even have iceman on his ice slide.

 

[Secret_Riddle]

i find the action miles ahead of x2's in this one.

 

[XCharlieX]

i cannot and will not diss x1 and 2s action because it was fantastic. Having said that x3s action was fitting for the ender.

 

[GoldGoblin]

Most of the effects were just more wire work crap. They didn't even have iceman on his ice slide.

^Yeah wire work is crap looking,and no Iceman on his ice slide was a bunch of crap as well.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

I think you're definition of good is different from mine or bosefs. What do you think makes an action scene good? Quality of effects? Pure visceral enjoyment?

For me, I prefer action scenes that are motivated by characters and the plot. The crane scene in Terminator 3 was fun to watch but that's it. It was an action scene that didn't really have much emotional investment in it or resonance. It was spectacle. It's sole reason to be in the movie wasn't to exist as a plot point or to show off a character moment, it was there to look cool.

It is the character moments in action scenes that help seperate the James Camerons of the world from the Michael Bays. They both make really great spectacles but Cameron spends a lot of time developing character moments making the action resonate more. If you don't care enough about the characters, then who cares about the danger the action presents?

...very well said.

lol compared to the one on one fights in the other flicks, the pyro iceman fight was...

poop
it was over before it began.

Best fight was...hmmm... Wolverine vs armstrong guy.

Now that is an excellent example... Pyro & Icemand can make huge beasts or just a great spectacle and all we got was ... a stream of fire and a stream of ice. Conversely, the armstrong guy and Wolverine 'danced' a bit.

Overall I still give X3 an edge in the action category, because it at least contained the scenes even if they lacked some substance.
__________________

 

[Storm22]

^Yeah wire work is crap looking,and no Iceman on his ice slide was a bunch of crap as well.

I wouldn't say the wirework is crap, it's the same standard wirework as the last 2 films imo.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The action was much better in a visual sense. As I say even though the comic is not a powersfest, this movie is. And for action sequences (and unfortunately "emotional"-which I use losely-scenes as well) seeing lots of explosions and powers and a montage of characters is not bad at all. However unlikt Deathstrike vs Wolverine or Nightcrawler v President or Phoenix v Tidal wave (or even the first movie Liberty Island fight) I did not find myself rooting for anyone. There were so many throw away deaths ignored by the bystandards and so little characterization that if someone were to die in one of those scenes I would have gone -- "oh, wow...okay whatever". In X2 I actually found myself on the edge of my seating hoping and praying Wolverine, Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler or Xavier would save the day. Here I did not care, it was all about flashy special effects and I suppose if Phoenix had wiped out everyone and consumed the milky way and would not have cared much either.

 

[theguido]

Well, it's not shocking that the most vocal critics of the movie on this board are the ones slamming the action sequences also. I guess if you're going to be a hater, it pays to be consistent.

But I liked the action in X3 a lot more, not necessarily because of the fights themselves but because of the framing of those fights. Especially the last fight at Alcatraz. Everyone could have come in together and just started but it was nice that all of them entered separately in their own special way. Maybe it wasn't necessarily realistic, but it gave the beginning of that action sequence some really nice flair. I think that, in general, what makes action sequences great is not the fight/action itself but the way it is framed, and I thought that was a great example of it.

And the Golden Gate thing, while silly in so many different ways was such an awe-inspiring display of power that I couldn't help but appreciate it.

 

[zanos]

I finally watched the film but did not notice that the action was necessarily better in terms of direction or choreography. Like some others have said there was simply more of it. The one noticeable difference was that the sfx was much better due to the budget. In fairness to Ratner I don't think he had the time necessary to create the kind of action sequences he would have liked.

 

[Thunder Emperor]

Every action sequence in X2 trumps the action sequences in The Last Stand. It's not even a contest.

The only one in The Last Stand that gets even remotely close is Jean and Xavier's battle of the minds. That's it. The rest, hollow and emotionless compared to what transpired in X2.

was X2 an action flick or drama, please remind me.

 

[Thunder Emperor]

Oh, so just because something costs more, it means it must have better action scenes?

Equilibrium, Punisher, Way of the Gun are all action movies with ridiculously low budgets, and yet they managed to have great action scenes! Just because you have 210 million, doesn't mean you won't spend it on crap!

thank you

 

[bosef982]

Well, then people here like aimless and empty action films. Good for you. You have XXX 1 and 2 for that as well.

I didn't find the action inspiring at all. It was closely shot at times -- the Jean House battle to be specific -- and was clunky and chopped up via editting never giving a consistent flow or rhythm to the choreography beats. Callisto vs. Storm was boring, constantly interuppted, and simply blaise. Iceman and Pyro, as other's have said, was bland.

And the generic toads at the end fighting all the X-Men was hokey, if not worse. The car bombs started cool, but just got boring. Wow. More fire and explosions. Wow.

As someone said, I didn't care who won or lost. I didn't give a flying f-ck. The film's action fails on this alone. Action without suspense is just meaningless action and if some people like that, fine -- do it. But if this is the low standard we're holding movies too now just to coax our own fanboyism, then fine, do it.

But you can't live in denial forever.

 

[PhoenixRisen]

Well, then people here like aimless and empty action films. Good for you. You have XXX 1 and 2 for that as well.

I didn't find the action inspiring at all. It was closely shot at times -- the Jean House battle to be specific -- and was clunky and chopped up via editting never giving a consistent flow or rhythm to the choreography beats. Callisto vs. Storm was boring, constantly interuppted, and simply blaise. Iceman and Pyro, as other's have said, was bland.

And the generic toads at the end fighting all the X-Men was hokey, if not worse. The car bombs started cool, but just got boring. Wow. More fire and explosions. Wow.

As someone said, I didn't care who won or lost. I didn't give a flying f-ck. The film's action fails on this alone. Action without suspense is just meaningless action and if some people like that, fine -- do it. But if this is the low standard we're holding movies too now just to coax our own fanboyism, then fine, do it.

But you can't live in denial forever.

I disagree with all of your specific points, as usual. But it would be nice if you could for once stop condescending to people who disagree with you. Liking X3 is not indicative of having "low standards." And as for living in denial, speak for yourself!! Do you realize how you sound to someone just popping in to read these threads? You don't do your cause any favors.