Iron Man Was this really Iron Man?

[8blades]

As much as I liked this, I'll stick with Bale

 

[EternalMaster]

Thanks for hammering home the "not as good as Batman" point for the umpteenth time in this thread.

Hell, I see that 2 posts ago, you wryly come in with a line like, "Oh, but I thought Iron Man was good", but since post #1, all you do is play down how great of an adaptation IM was while playing up why Batman Begins was better.

We get it. You like Batman. Guess what? I do too. I had friends who (after I saw BB) I practically forced to see the movie and made fans out of them. But guess what else? Iron Man is a great movie too. The IM film is ALSO a great adaptation, just like BB. It's not like there can only be one great comicbook-based film. There can be many.

Your knowledge of Iron Man though seems fairly limited, and in your ignorance of the character, you try and paint the film as being unfaithful to some general notion of what you think Iron Man is about.

Back in the day, Iron Man was a very business-like hero who was out to get the job done. During the silver age, he was often a dashing hero... almost a James Bond type when out of the armor... and a driven fighter while in it. Later on, he developped alcoholism, and later after that, he beat it. In the last decade, depending on his writer, he often does throw out witty remarks and is quite charming. The Ultimates version of Stark is even more charming, but a huge booze hound and lady-chaser as well. And in current Marvel comics, Tony Stark has been a pretty big prick. He basically pushed for legislation that started the Civil War, made a clone of Thor that killed a fellow hero, tried to rob She-Hulk of her powers, convinced Spider-Man to reveal his identity to the public, had many heroes imprisoned, and beat on Captain America severely.

So Tony Stark's character has changed over the passage of time. There is no single perfect version of Iron Man. Favreau and company took what makes Iron Man great, and they put it up on the screen. Everything I'd expect from a typical Iron Man comic, I saw up on the screen. He's a weapons maker who creates his greatest weapon of all when captured, and he later turns to using his armor to fight for justice. As times change, his notion of "justice" has been tweaked, but that's Iron Man at his core. And his core is what we saw in this film, just like we saw the core of Batman in Batman Begins.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

As much as I liked this, I'll stick with Bale

But RDJ and Bale are playing two different characters. You make it sound like they were contracted to play the same character and you prefer Bale over RDJ. I just don't get this.

We get it. You like Batman. Guess what? I do too. I had friends who (after I saw BB) I practically forced to see the movie and made fans out of them. But guess what else? Iron Man is a great movie too. The IM film is ALSO a great adaptation, just like BB. It's not like there can only be one great comicbook-based film. There can be many.

 

[Clobberin' Time]

Yes, we've heard all the BO figures and stuff, but sit back and think....was this really Iron Man?

Iron Man was the realest and one of the most down to earth comic books out there and I think given it the RDJ comedic family-feel treatment is a HUGE disservice. My mind is cast back to Batman 89. It did so well commercially but was very unfaithful to the comics. It's like Batman Begins, not so great at the BO, but is probably the most faithful comic-book film ever.

Tony Stark is a dark and conflicted character. He HAS to battle alcoholism, there HAS to be serious tone. You can't lighten things up and joke about weapons of mass destruction. I think as time passes, Iron Man fans will feel let down when you see how much Batman Begins tried to remaing faitful to its comic-book roots.

Christ on a bleeding BMX!

What a duffer!

Note to SHH staff... Any chance we can have done with it and dedicate a new site called Batman Hype to keep idiots like this away? Sick of these morons spamming up the place!

 

[X Knight]

ummm.....how were WMDs portrayed in a dismissive or less-than-serious manner?

aside from reveling in the coolness of the IM suit ( which IS essentially a WMD ), the whole reason for Stark's transformation, the whole crux of the movie, was Stark witnessing FIRSTHAND how WMDs ( HIS WMDs ) were being used by EVIL ppl ( terrorrists ) to harm US soldiers and innocent civilians.

and, in regards to the alcoholism issue......I believe Favreau was asked this early on and he has always said that this issue will be explored in the SEQUELS!

I mean, c'mon, this was just the FIRST MOVIE! How can we expect to go on a journey with the characters if everything is thrown into the very first movie......geez.....

 

[Figs]

ummm.....how were WMDs portrayed in a dismissive or less-than-serious manner?

aside from reveling in the coolness of the IM suit ( which IS essentially a WMD ), the whole reason for Stark's transformation, the whole crux of the movie, was Stark witnessing FIRSTHAND how WMDs ( HIS WMDs ) were being used by EVIL ppl ( terrorrists ) to harm US soldiers and innocent civilians.

and, in regards to the alcoholism issue......I believe Favreau was asked this early on and he has always said that this issue will be explored in the SEQUELS!

I mean, c'mon ppl, this was just the FIRST MOVIE! How can we expect to go on a journey with the characters if everything is thrown into the very first movie......geez.....

No need to say 'people'. Just use his name...8blades...he's the one that's not getting it.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

 

[Ryudoz]

You sir, win the internet.

To the original post, yes this was very much indeed Iron Man. As happens in many adaptations of written/drawn material, there is stuff that is left out for the sake of time and the ability to hold an audience's attention. Or else we would have seen Tony go through alcoholism, put himself into a coma to cure himself, develop a complete undersuit to protect himself from the shrapnel that could kill him, die, come back as a teenage version of himself, die again, come back again as an adult, become a Senator, pass laws, initiate Civil War, be responsible for the death of quite a few people, betray everyone under the sun, and then oh yeah make sweet love to ladies and drink at every corner (which we saw anyways).

However, the basic elements were there.

- He was critically injured and required a device to keep himself alive
- While imprisoned, he built a suit to escape
- He Further developed that suit into a weapons platform to do good
- He constantly tinkered/tested his suit
- He drank
- He made sweet sweet lovin to the ladies
- Saves the day

So aside from filling in the gaps with dialogue and plot devices, it was true to the comics as far as I'm concerned, and it seems quite a few people agree.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Sun_Down]

I thought they nailed it on basically every front. It was funny where it needed to be and serious where it needed to be. To say that this film lacked heart is just plain innacurate. This movie handled a lot of big social issues and took them seriously.

There's a big difference between a movie that contains well-executed humor (i.e. Iron Man) and a movie that is flat out cheesey (i.e. Spiderman). I would by no means refer to this film as being given the "comedic treatment".

 

[Syncos]

Wow guys, maybe I should have mentioned that I thought the movie was good...not great, but good. I just find it disheartening that a film that is so basic and simple is being heralded as the greatest thing ever and folks are getting just a little bit over-excited. Yes, it was good but it could have been so much better and taken a lot more risks in its story. Again, we are in the year 2008 and you can't just show WMD's and not really address the issue or just show it as a side-thing.
I actually think this was a better film as a whole than Batman Begins, but Begins took a lot more risks and was very bold in what it was trying to do. Hence, why even RDJ commented on trying to steer clear away from what Nolan and Bale did.

Oh, and I think Bale is the only genuine dark brooding hero...the others just pretend to be but fail miserably. Basically, Iron Man was what films like Fantastic Four and Spiderman tried to be but failed, while Begins, eventhough it was flawed, was trying to bring some new things to the table.

So your whole problem is that this is a cookie cutter superhero movie? Guess what, so was Batman Begins.

Lets check the formula shall we?

Live changing event > Return to home with a new mission > Develop the means to succeed in said mission > Someone who was trusted turns out to be the villain > Villain dies due to their own stupidity.

I don't get how Begins pushed the bar or "took more risks" than Iron Man did. Begins had a darker tone, that's the big difference.

Here's the important part, that you apparently need to understand.

Tony Stark is not Bruce Wayne.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Yes, we've heard all the BO figures and stuff, but sit back and think....was this really Iron Man?

Iron Man was the realest and one of the most down to earth comic books out there and I think given it the RDJ comedic family-feel treatment is a HUGE disservice. My mind is cast back to Batman 89. It did so well commercially but was very unfaithful to the comics. It's like Batman Begins, not so great at the BO, but is probably the most faithful comic-book film ever.

Tony Stark is a dark and conflicted character. He HAS to battle alcoholism, there HAS to be serious tone. You can't lighten things up and joke about weapons of mass destruction. I think as time passes, Iron Man fans will feel let down when you see how much Batman Begins tried to remaing faitful to its comic-book roots.

I would say this is a modern interpretation of Iron Man,and I like it. It makes him different from Bruce Wayne. Tony Stark has seen what his weapons can do to people,and that effected him. He wants to help the world,Bruce Wayne broods and uses his fortune to fund his attempts at being Batman. Far difference,this is Iron Man.

 

[EML]

There were no WMDs in this film, lol.

 

[bunk]

This thread fails, miserably.

 

[dodgers2213]

I've been Reading Iron Man for over 35 years and YES this was the REAL IRON MAN !

The movie showed great respect for the characters comic book origin and yet Fav tweaked it for today's audience without losing his history.

And if you didn't see the subtle foreshadowing in some scenes to the problems Tony Stark is notorious for in the comics then you need to look a litlle more closer the nest time you watch the movie.

I was about to say this exact thing. PLENTY of foreshadowing that any fan should have noticed.

And im not much of a comic reader and i still picked it up. lol

one of the obvious ones was with yensung (spell?) told stark "we met once in bern (stark: I dont remember) oh you wouldn't, had i been that drunk I wouldn't be able to stand let alone give a lecture on integrated circuits"
^^well something similair to that

 

[Tony Stark]

Yes, we've heard all the BO figures and stuff, but sit back and think....was this really Iron Man?

Iron Man was the realest and one of the most down to earth comic books out there and I think given it the RDJ comedic family-feel treatment is a HUGE disservice. My mind is cast back to Batman 89. It did so well commercially but was very unfaithful to the comics. It's like Batman Begins, not so great at the BO, but is probably the most faithful comic-book film ever.

Tony Stark is a dark and conflicted character. He HAS to battle alcoholism, there HAS to be serious tone. You can't lighten things up and joke about weapons of mass destruction. I think as time passes, Iron Man fans will feel let down when you see how much Batman Begins tried to remaing faitful to its comic-book roots.

Get out DC Fanboy, you wouln't know an Iron Man comic if it hit you in the face. From reading this, it sounds like you didn't even see the movie.

"Family feel"??? You mean like when Raza tried puting a burning hot coal into Yinsen's mouth? Yeah that was really humorous.

 

[spiderfan970]

Yeah I'm really tired of people saying this was family friendly....It wasn't for lots of reasons. Yes, it was lighter hearted than other superhero movies...But it was still very much for kids and adults ages 13 and older. And yes, although I'm fairly new to Iron Man, I've done a lot of research and this was definitely Iron Man. Or...at the very least, all that I like about him.

 

[블라스]

Hahaha, I can't believe you people.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Hahaha, I can't believe you people.

What? What do you mean, you people.

 

[WTF]

What? What do you mean, you people.

This post, sir, for the win!

Batman and Bruce Wayne and IM/Tony S. are two different characters. For me, that's been evident from the the first IM book that I picked up, and it's even more evident from the movie. I actually thought the movie took several aspects of Tony's character and created a very loyal version of Tony Stark. He's a womanizer, snarky, cynical, takes people and things for granted, obsessive. But, he's ultimately a funny guy. IM, before this movie, had a very sarcastic sense of humor; heck, even in the Extremis/Execute Program, he snarks and makes one-liners in battle. He's really, at his heart, a funny guy, but he's prone to obsession and addiction. I see it all the time with my job (working with folks who suffer from substance abuse).

I'm actually a Batman fan from back in the day, but I also thought both Burton and Nolan's takes did well in capturing the spirit and feel of the Batman/Dark Knight comics and the Bruce Wayne character (even if I have my own crits of Bale's performance). And I'm awaiting TDK movie with a great deal of anticipation, but I also don't think it's fair to cut one movie down in order to boost the other. Both IM and Bats have their places in pop culture.

 

[yoshimura]

Seriously, what is with the sudden need for every superhero movie to be so insanely dark and depressing.

maybe not so sudden, but still, the trend needs to end.

every film somehow has this element.

over-using dark/depressing/edginess makes characters loose their luster and appeal. things get too predictable with regards to character development.

 

[Ryudoz]

Get out DC Fanboy, you wouln't know an Iron Man comic if it hit you in the face. From reading this, it sounds like you didn't even see the movie.

"Family feel"??? You mean like when Raza tried puting a burning hot coal into Yinsen's mouth? Yeah that was really humorous.

Indeed. Or all the times that Tony was drinking, and hitting on all the ladies. Or all the people he burned up with the flame throwers and the people he shot with his shoulder guns. Yup. Family friendly entertainment there.

 

[Riven]

Note to SHH staff... Any chance we can have done with it and dedicate a new site called Batman Hype to keep idiots like this away? Sick of these morons spamming up the place!

I'm a Batman fan first and foremost and yet somehow I (and a lot of others with me), have no problems leaving prejudices and preconceived notions at the door when discussing other superheroes or interests. So you might want to do so as well, okay?

It's not cause some "Bat-fan" moron comes to this forum trying to stir up a pointless debate, that all fans of the character are biased. His being a Batman fan is circumstantial, not essential. There are fools everywhere.

 

[블라스]

What? What do you mean, you people.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'm a Batman fan first and foremost and yet somehow I (and a lot of others with me), have no problems leaving prejudices and preconceived notions at the door when discussing other superheroes or interests. So you might want to do so as well, okay?

It's not cause some "Bat-fan" moron comes to this forum trying to stir up a pointless debate, that all fans of the character are biased. His being a Batman fan is circumstantial, not essential. There are fools everywhere.

Agreed, but Bat-fans are the lowest common denominator when it comes to fanboys. Hey! You might be the exception to the rule. But the rule is still valid.

 

[FireandIce213]

Its funny really..It seems every comic book film has at least one critic saying "it wasnt dark enough"