Sequels Was Wolverine: Origins really that bad?!! (Spoiler)

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Go out and kill Wolverine.

OK. *dies*

The only way he could have killed Wolverine is with these magic beans.

Origins in a nutshell.

 

[TMC1982]

3 Huge Lessons Superhero Movies Should Have Learned From X-Men Origins

 

[dax]

Yea it was. It had some cool scenes but it just didn't form a good movie.

The main problem is was it was supposed to show Logan at his most violent, where he was an animal. It was supposed to show him learn to control his animal side and regain his humanity.

Well, it didn't. This was the most neutered Wolverine has been in any of the movies.

The movie DID show Logan at his most violent during the war montage, the weapon X experiment, the motorcycle chase, and his fights with Sabertooth, Blob, Gambit, and Deadpool. The only time he's not acting like an animal is when he's with Kayla for a few moments.

 

[psylockolussus]

Because he's not animal!

 

[DigificWriter]

Still shocked they ignored Wolverine's first movie

They DIDN'T ignore it.

It was so bad, that Fox seems to have:

Spoiler

just retconned it out of continuity with DOFP.

Except that's not what happened.

Yes, DoFP altered the timeline, but every film that was released prior to DoFP still remains part of the franchise's Canon.

 

[def28]

Filmmakers and actors have told the fans "forget about it" and these new films "have no connection".

I don't know why anyone would want to convince themselves otherwise, when nobody involved wants us to remember it as anything other then a joke in Deadpool.

 

[DigificWriter]

Filmmakers and actors have told the fans "forget about it" and these new films "have no connection".

This is false.

Both Bryan Singer and Simon Kinberg have repeatedly said that the connections remain, calling Apocalypse the "culmination of the trilogy started with First Class" (Kinberg) and the "culmination of two trilogies" (Singer).

It has also been said by both men that 'echoes' of the pre-DoFP films remain and WILL remain, even as/if events change going forward.

Singer himself just recently said that Apocalypse is responsible for turning Storm "into the character played by Halle Berry in the earlier films".

Fans WANT the pre-DoFP films to no longer be Canon, but that is not what the filmmakers are doing.

 

[def28]

This is false.

Huh?

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/1...ool-corrects-mistakes-x-men-origins-wolverine

“Deadpool appearing in Origins is not the Deadpool we are representing in this film, in any way shape or form,” Reynolds told EW’s Jess Cagle and Jessica Shaw Saturday on EW Live on SiriusXM.

Carefully choosing his words so as to not offend famed-clawed star Hugh Jackman (“[He’s] a very powerful man – he orders airstrikes from his iPhone&#8221, Reynolds explained that “we didn’t quite get Deadpool right, so this is kind of an opportunity to get the most authentic version possible on the screen.”

http://screenrant.com/ryan-reynolds-deadpool-green-lantern-2-benm-156821/

“[Deadpool] will actually have no connection to the one that was in Wolverine.”

Origins is ignored. Wade is not a mutant at the start of Deadpool. This script was also written pre DOFP and First Class. It was never intended to be connected to Origins at any point, and never relied on DOFP. Kinberg is very aware of this.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ That doesn't mean what you think it means. The reason Deadpool is able to exist the way that it does is due to the alteration of the timeline in DoFP, but it doesn't "decanonize" Origins: Wolverine even as it makes fun of that film.

http://screenrant.com/deadpool-x-men-movie-universe/

 

[def28]

Again, Deadpool was written prior to the release of First Class and before DOFP was eve written. The reason Deadpool was finally greenlit was because of the leaked reaction and cause of Tom Rothman finally being out of the picture. It had nothing to do with DOFP. Origins was being scrapped regardless if Days Of Future Past was even released. The joke in the film is that X-Men Origins was a bad film and he owns the action figure. It is nothing more then a joke. He also mentions Batman, Robin, Green Lantern and Nick Fury. Doesn't mean it's all connected.

This interview with the writers pretty much sums it up. http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/rhe...3/deadpool-rhett-reese-paul-wernick-interview

PW: 2009 is when we first got hired, and we wrote our first draft and turned it into the studio early 2010 I would say.
RR: Yeah!

Back at the start, it can’t have been too long since X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Was Deadpool always going to be a separate thing, or was there a time when you had to work with what that film had done?

RR: Well I think X-Men Origins: Wolverine had so, I think, mishandled the Deadpool character that – in a way – everyone was very highly motivated to get it right. Just by virtue of the fact that they’d gotten it wrong the first time. Once they acknowledged that…
So, when Ryan [Reynolds, who produced the movie as well as starring] first hired us, I think the whole mandate was ‘let’s toss everything out that you’ve seen before, and start over with an origin story again.’ Reboot it, almost instantly. And that’s what we did.

Did you ask at all, why the decisions that had been made last time had happened? Or just ignore it and move on?

PW: Yeah, we just ignored it and moved on. It was one that, I think, the fans… didn’t love. And Ryan himself, and Fox, would all say it had been a fairly large misstep. A mischaracterisation of Deadpool. So, he [Reynolds] more than anyone wanted to do it right. And I feel that we really did get it right this time.

So right when they were hired Fox already gave them the green light to scrap Origins out of continuity. Cause they themselves admitted the movie sucked. There was never a time when it was connected to Origins even months after Origins itself was released.

People can use DOFP as an excuse if it makes them feel better but that was never the intention. I read the Deadpool script many years ago, I saw the film which is pretty much the same and I have listened to countless interviews. Many of which have said nobody liked origins, they ****ed up and we should forget about it. Including Reynolds (numerous times), Jackman, Kinberg, Paul Wernick, Rhett Reese and Donner.

X3 different story, that movie plays into The Wolverine heavily and also DOFP with elements. It had an effect on future films through it's narrative. It was not ignored.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Origins: Wolverine ALSO plays into The Wolverine. Deadpool may ignore O:W for the purposes of its own internal narrative, but in terms of the X-franchise as a whole, O:W remains Canonical, and since Deadpool IS part of the existing X-franchise, it exists alongside O:W while also making fun of it and not actually acknowledging that it happened (which is fine because of what DoFP did to the timeline).

 

[def28]

The point here is that Fox wanted Deadpool not connected at all to Origins, and neither did the filmmakers. This decision happened before X-Men First Class. It's right above you. You said that was false for whatever reason and I gave you quite alot saying otherwise. They clearly were not proud of the film, and wanted to stay far away from it. I just don't know what else there is to say. If you are not willing to listen to the filmmakers who have literally stated these things quite a few times then there is no convincing you on the matter.

Going by your comments in the Deadpool thread have you even seen Deadpool yet?

 

[DigificWriter]

The X-franchise remains a continuous whole even with DoFP having altered the timeline, meaning that Deadpool, which is part of said franchise, exists alongside Origins: Wolverine even though Ryan Reynolds and others directly involved with the former (Deadpool) speak about not paying any attention to what was done in the latter (O:W).

You feel like statements from Reynolds and others say otherwise, but I don't (even without having actually seen Deadpool), and don't believe that the filmmakers' attitudes as a whole support the "Origins: Wolverine no longer counts" argument.

 

[psylockolussus]

My answer to this thread's original question, it wasn't as bad as Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice.

 

[Infinity9999x]

It was quite bad, but all the more frustrating because it had a great cast. So tons of squandered potential.

And also, guys, it's clear they're ignoring the stuff they didn't like. There's no point in trying to make origins fit into the timeline, the filmmakers are treating it like it isn't there.

If you want to...then feel free to. It's like comic continuity at thus point. Things will be ignored and forgotten, some things wont. It really comes down to the reader/viewer to decide what they want in the timeline.

Just don't expect the filmmakers to reference or honor Origins.

 

[marvelrobbins]

yes it was.though i find last stand worse.

 

[Infinity9999x]

yes it was.though i find last stand worse.

Objectively, X3 is a better film. It had better sfx, a better script (not a good script, but better than magic mind erasing bullet bad) and it at least had some entertaining action sequences. Though X3 was far more disappointing, because it had huge hype leading up to it and the trailers looked amazing.

 

[DigificWriter]

Answering the actual thread question, "No. No, it was not".

The film is far better than people think it is (same with X3), and adds a lot of layers to Wolverine's character.

The film also works much better when seen in its proper chronological order, and if you take into account the dates for its some of its events as they are given in the official timeline that was produced and released 2 years ago for/in the pages of Empire Magazine.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Answering the actual thread question, "No. No, it was not".

The film is far better than people think it is (same with X3), and adds a lot of layers to Wolverine's character.

The film also works much better when seen in its proper chronological order, and if you take into account the dates for its some of its events as they are given in the official timeline that was produced and released 2 years ago for/in the pages of Empire Magazine.

Eh, it doesn't really add anything to Wolverine that wasn't already there before. There are some good scenes, but overall it had a lot of issues writing wise.

 

[Nathan]

Not only does it not add anything, it also completely neuters Wolverine. He's the best there is, at what he does. And what he does is stand around, while everybody else runs around and kills soldiers. Thank god we at least got a pretty good Movie tie-in Video game out of it.

 

[DigificWriter]

Eh, it doesn't really add anything to Wolverine that wasn't already there before.

It explains how he was transformed into Weapon X, establishes when he was born, establishes a relationship between him and Victor/Sabertooth (which adds layers to X1 and their rivalry in that movie, even if their familial connection is never actually addressed), and provides context for the events of The Wolverine.

It's far more important in the grand scheme of things than people want to admit, especially given the way the franchise as a whole has been and continues to be approached.

 

[Infinity9999x]

It explains how he was transformed into Weapon X, establishes when he was born, establishes a relationship between him and Victor/Sabertooth (which adds layers to X1 and their rivalry in that movie, even if their familial connection is never actually addressed), and provides context for the events of The Wolverine.

It's far more important in the grand scheme of things than people want to admit, especially given the way the franchise as a whole has been and continues to be approached.

Weapon X was already explained in X2. Origins didn't add anything to finding out how he got the claws...except giving us a version that was less intense than a 20 second flashback in the first two films. The Creed relationship wasn't bad, except in the movie verse it's never actually clear that Sabertooth and Victor Creed are the same character, and did nothing to explain why they look like two incredibly different people.

And The Wolverine really only relies on a slight knowledge of what Logan has gone through in X3.

So really, the only decent thing it added was Live as Victor, something I wouldn't mind seeing revisited. But everything else really only hurt the character, or was a poorly done version of what we had already seen.

 

[Flint Marko]

Origins is one of the worst CBM's of all time.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Origins is one of the worst CBM's of all time.

Ehhh...it's still not quite that bad. Liev and Jackman are enough to keep it out of that league. It's not in the same boat as Steel, 94 F4, the 91 Cap film where he had rubber ears, Supergirl, Batman and Robin etc.

It wasn't a good film, but it's not in that tier of completely bad comic films.

 

[Neptune]

I think it's a horrible movie.The only things i liked about origins were Sabretooth and that scene on the plane with the whole weapon X team.

The biggest problems for me were bad writing, horrible special effects and characters not acting like themselves. Gambit wasn't Gambit at all, Wolverine was just a cliche good guy and don't even get me started on Deadpool. And never ever ever let Will.I.Am. play another role in any marvel movie....NEVER!