watch the golden compass go to hell

[Wilhelm-Scream]

I think it's the "ideas" part that people have a problem with. Not in the movie since, but the books.
I mean, c'mon, if a story was out there that was a propaganda piece for intolerance, racism, homophobia, jingoism, xenphobia or whatever, you'd have a problem with it, too,

I can't speak for ATP, but I wouldn't have any problem at all.
I'm strongly, aggressively, fanatically Anti-Christian but if I had a kid I'd love for them to see "The Ten Commandments" with Charlton Heston, the really good made for TV "Jesus of Nazareth", "The Lion, The Witch, The Wardrobe", among other things.

I also like some Blaxploitation movies.
I've tried to watch Birth of a Nation (it's biggest crime is how boring it is).

I freaking LOVE propaganda pieces.
Z.E.R.O. Problem
The ONLY movie I'd have a problem with would be something that harmed someone in real life, like Child Pornography or a Snuff Film.

The world would be a better place if people could put the images on the screen and the sounds coming out of the speakers into their proper place.

Why get all worked up because some religious people have a problem with fiction that is anti-religious propaganda? It completely makes sense.

Yes, it does make sense, because religious people have built their entire lives around, staked their whole future on, a bulls*** malarky fantasy, and it's just too painful to even CONTEMPLATE the possibility that there is no Happy Ending in Heaven with Jesus, and that all their struggling and tribulations were for nothing, based on insidious lies.

 

[DV8]

it taught us dont f**k with falcor

Falcor kicked so much ass when I was little

 

[kainedamo]

The whole agnostic/atheist debate annoys me.

I remember when I didn't know what agnostic meant and I was telling people I was athiest and they'd ask me what I believe, and they'd say I'm agnostic, and I was like, "who ****ing cares!"

 

[AndThePickles]

I can't speak for ATP, but I wouldn't have any problem at all.

For me, personally, I don't categorize religion with those other things. Mainly because I think it's impossible to prove a religion is "right" or "wrong."

I also don't feel like the books are trying to sway people or anything. I'm sure that most of the people against them haven't even read them.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Okay, just to clarify...agnostic means you believe in God, but you don't practice any relegion?

 

[Figs]

Okay, just to clarify...agnostic means you believe in God, but you don't practice any relegion?

I guess so...I think it's more of the mind that their "could" be a god but you don't necessarily believe in one.

 

[Logan's Runt]

Okay, just to clarify...agnostic means you believe in God, but you don't practice any relegion?

No. Agnostic means you don't necessarily believe in a god, but you don't believe that there is no god/higherpower. Basically, you believe that we can't know for sure/there's not enough evidence.

Atheist means that you believe that there is no god/gods/invisible pink unicorn and that there cannot be.

 

[Carcharodon]

Okay, just to clarify...agnostic means you believe in God, but you don't practice any relegion?

No...well, not necessarily.

I consider myself agnostic: I don't outright believe in any sort of God or deity, but I don't completely rule out the possibility of the existence of said Gods or deities.

 

[DV8]

It's funny if a movie promotes Christain beliefs like the Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, it's a great movie everyone should see. If it doesn't every copy needs to be destroyed and never be shown to the public. I wonder what Movies2k4 opinion on this issue is.

Not around here.

Every atheist I've ever known in my personal life stupidly took it too far by being as stupid as the "I'm 100% right" Christians in saying "God Does Not Exist.", "There Is No God."
I've heard them say things as stupid as "God Can Not Exist." (that guy was really stupid though).

That's why I have as little respect for Full-On Hardcore "There IS NO GOD!" Atheists as I have for Full-On Hardcore "Jesus Loves You." Christians.


That's why the only people whose beliefs I respect, (because they are the ONLY people who are actually RIGHT), believe that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable.

They are people who are not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god.


Th^t's, the accepted definition of "Agnostic" btw.




Let's find the accepted definition of "Atheist".





Ah, I see.

my sentiments exactly . . . such HYPOCRISY!! I def believe in a higher power, but I'm not so ignorant to believe that I can even comprehend the motive of said power, let alone tell other people how to live, act and feel based on no direct experience.

Nobody has ever met GOD, so how is their way of life any different than my own personal deduction of what GOD is, which I've interpretted through my own life experiences, science, nature, and tripping my nuts off on mushrooms??

anyway, it's a goddam movie!!!

 

[Logan's Runt]

The whole agnostic/atheist debate annoys me.

I remember when I didn't know what agnostic meant and I was telling people I was athiest and they'd ask me what I believe, and they'd say I'm agnostic, and I was like, "who ****ing cares!"

I don't understand why there's a debate. There are definitions for both that are quite simple, but it seems to be commonly confused.

It'd be like saying you were Jewish but believed in Jesus as Savior too. (Which does happen )

 

[Steve Rogers]

Okay. Got it. Thanks everyone.

 

[kainedamo]

I don't think we'll ever truely know how the universe, and whatever the hell came before the universe, was created.

 

[Tally Man]

I don't understand why there's a debate. There are definitions for both that are quite simple, but it seems to be commonly confused.

It'd be like saying you were Jewish but believed in Jesus as Savior too. (Which does happen )

I think the confusion comes from another part of the definition you quoted.

Main Entry:1ag·nos·tic Pronunciation: \ag-&#712;näs-tik, &#601;g-\ Function:noun Etymology:Greek agn&#333;stos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gn&#333;stos known, from gign&#333;skein to know — more at knowDate:1869 1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>
— ag·nos·ti·cism \-t&#601;-&#716;si-z&#601;m\ noun

For instance it is possible to say one cannot know if god does or does not exist and then in the same breath say you don't believe in god because of that. In which case said confusion comes in.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I also like some Blaxploitation movies.
I've tried to watch Birth of a Nation (it's biggest crime is how boring it is).

Nice. I'm a Pam Grier fanboy myself. As to Birth of a Nation, when I was in college I had this job digitizing old movies and burning them to DVD for the school's library. I couldn't take my eyes off Birth of a Nation. While it is racist propaganda crap, it is good racist propaganda crap. Visually, I thought the film was amazing.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Okay, just to clarify...agnostic means you believe in God, but you don't practice any relegion?

Oh my God. There is no mystery to the word whatsoever.

AGNOSTIC - a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god


We don't know for sure if there is a God, or if there is no God, and because of the nature of the idea of "God", we can't know for sure either way.
There may be a God, there may not be a God.

It is the only belief that is 100% correct.
Notice how it covers every base, it's "probably unknowable"....we don't even KNOW, for sure, that we can't ever know for sure.

 

[Super Kal]

It is the only belief that is 100% correct.

in your opinion...

 

[Logan's Runt]

I think the confusion comes from another part of the definition you quoted.

Main Entry:1ag·nos·tic Pronunciation: \ag-&#712;näs-tik, &#601;g-\ Function:noun Etymology:Greek agn&#333;stos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gn&#333;stos known, from gign&#333;skein to know — more at knowDate:1869 1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god2: a person unwilling to commit to an opinion about something <political agnostics>
— ag·nos·ti·cism \-t&#601;-&#716;si-z&#601;m\ noun

For instance it is possible to say one cannot know if god does or does not exist and then in the same breath say you don't believe in god because of that. In which case said confusion comes in.

I can see how that would be a point of confusion, kind of. I guess the definitions have always been very clear for me. Possibility of god =agnostic. No possibility of god= atheist. Individual beliefs other than that may vary.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Oh my God. There is no mystery to the word whatsoever.

AGNOSTIC - a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god


We don't know for sure if there is a God, or if there is no God, and because of the nature of the idea of "God", we can't know for sure either way.
There may be a God, there may not be a God.

It is the only belief that is 100% correct.
Notice how it covers every base, it's "probably unknowable"....we don't even KNOW, for sure, that we can't ever know for sure.

I love how you open that post with "Oh my God"

 

[Logan's Runt]

in your opinion...

In the absence of concrete proof, 'we don't know' is the only truthful assertion. 'I believe' is an opinion statement and doesn't correspond to a truth value.

 

[DV8]

wow . . . I guess I'm pry agnostic then . . . what do they do at church? I bet it's much more laid back

 

[Carcharodon]

in your opinion...

Uh...no. It's the only belief that, given all known probability, can be completely correct. At least, based on existing human knowledge.

Which is sort of funny, given that it's not actually a belief per se...no assertion is made, except to say that we can never know or comprehend something as profound as a higher power.

 

[Carcharodon]

DBL POST

 

[Tally Man]

I can see how that would be a point of confusion, kind of. I guess the definitions have always been very clear for me. Possibility of god =agnostic. No possibility of god= atheist. Individual beliefs other than that may vary.

I think its possibly from the fact that the first definition of an agnostic refers to whether or not one can know if there is a god not whether or not there is one. So one can hold an agnostic belief as to the knowledge of said god and then not believe in one and theoretically be an agnostic atheist. In the end it just gets confusing if people don't really know what the word means.

 

[Logan's Runt]

in your opinion...

No. In the absence of concrete proof that can be verified and tested, 'we don't know' is the only truthful statement to be made. Anything else is a stab in the dark that may or may not correspond to Truth or Falsehood. The statement 'I believe' does not assert a truth value. It is an opinion.

wow . . . I guess I'm pry agnostic then . . . what do they do at church? I bet it's much more laid back

We use a lot of 'maybe's.

 

[Logan's Runt]

I think its possibly from the fact that the first definition of an agnostic refers to whether or not one can know if there is a god not whether or not there is one. So one can hold an agnostic belief as to the knowledge of said god and then not believe in one and theoretically be an agnostic atheist. In the end it just gets confusing if people don't really know what the word means.

I don't think that works. Agnosticism/atheism don't really revolve around whether a person actually believes in god/gods or not. They revolve around whether or not one believes in the possibility or not. Atheists don't believe in the existence of a higher power as a result of their belief that a higher power cannot exist. Agnosticism requires that you believe that we cannot know for sure/could not understand a higher power if there is one. So, while it is possible to not believe in a god while being an agnostic, it is not possible to believe in the possibility of a higher power while being an atheist.