WaTX Season 2 Unused Plans

[Panthro]

All this time later I'm still surprised they bothered to include Jean in their living cast - even if all she amounted to was a prize/the bad girlfriend you want Cyclops to get away from though he may not realize it (just like in a bad romantic comedy) - considering that everyone at Marvel seems to hate her and view her as the black sheep of the X-Men. Not sure how sticking Emma's brain in Jean's brain would have worked but it might have led to at least one funny moment -

CYCLOPS: "I'm sorry am I talking to Jean or am I talking to Emma? Because I honestly can't tell the difference anymore."

As for the 90s fetish, well, who knows, maybe they thought "Hey, we live in an age where computers do half the animation work for us thus resulting in more consistent animation quality! And we have Jennifer Hale! Anything the 90s show did we can do better!" or something like that. You'd think they'd be content knowing they did a better version of Jean in Evolution but apparently not.

Not really related to the unused plans but did anyone else think there was something suspicious about Xavier going out of his way to introduce Scott to Jean as teenagers in the flashbacks of "Breakdown"? There's something about that sequence that just isn't kosher (much like the relationship itself as played out here - I can only imagine the horror it would have degenerated into in season 2). I guess it's possible Xavier figured "Poor kid'll probably never get laid on his own, I might as well set him up with somebody.", and gave Jean the unlucky tap since she was moving to the school anyway.

 

[Dread]

Dread, until you are ready to produce and story edit your own animated show and do it how you want to do it I don't think you are one to doubt Chris Yost or can really say how a show's season should be mapped out. You make it sound like Yost needed Kyle to hold his hand all the time as a writer in order to plot. Yost has a career beyond collaborating with Kyle though I think they both did some tremendous work together (X-Force, Hulk vs., etc.).

Hey, if Marvel were willing to hire me to produce or story edit a friggin' YouTube commercial, I'd give it my all.

Kyle and Yost have done some great work together as well as apart. I just found "A:EMH", which has more Yost influence, superior to "W&TXM", which had more Kyle influence. Fine would have had to assemble the second season without him and Yost, so it would have likely been different.

All this time later I'm still surprised they bothered to include Jean in their living cast - even if all she amounted to was a prize/the bad girlfriend you want Cyclops to get away from though he may not realize it (just like in a bad romantic comedy) - considering that everyone at Marvel seems to hate her and view her as the black sheep of the X-Men. Not sure how sticking Emma's brain in Jean's brain would have worked but it might have led to at least one funny moment -

CYCLOPS: "I'm sorry am I talking to Jean or am I talking to Emma? Because I honestly can't tell the difference anymore."

As for the 90s fetish, well, who knows, maybe they thought "Hey, we live in an age where computers do half the animation work for us thus resulting in more consistent animation quality! And we have Jennifer Hale! Anything the 90s show did we can do better!" or something like that. You'd think they'd be content knowing they did a better version of Jean in Evolution but apparently not.

Not really related to the unused plans but did anyone else think there was something suspicious about Xavier going out of his way to introduce Scott to Jean as teenagers in the flashbacks of "Breakdown"? There's something about that sequence that just isn't kosher (much like the relationship itself as played out here - I can only imagine the horror it would have degenerated into in season 2). I guess it's possible Xavier figured "Poor kid'll probably never get laid on his own, I might as well set him up with somebody.", and gave Jean the unlucky tap since she was moving to the school anyway.

In fairness, I didn't find Xavier introducing young Scott to Jean to recruit her as being TOO suspicious. He was aware of Scott being an introvert as well as Jean's timidity, and perhaps figured they'd be able to help each other. And there's nothing wrong with that, really. I just think the show took that dynamic too far.

A lot of my nitpicks of the show aren't precisely to claim that certain things were bad ideas; it was often the execution with which I had fault. A show where Wolverine was a terrible leader of circumstance and the rest of the X-Men were in disunity as a result IS a solid concept. The execution, though, was we basically got an X-Men team which ran smoothly aside for Cyclops' emotional issues and Rogue's mentor resentment, which was resolved about midway through. Despite Beast's brain, Frost's arrogance, Kitty's spunk or Storm's own leadership potential, they never questioned Logan's orders, even when he was making a mistake. Only Cyclops resented him, and he was often wrong every time. In fact, the only thing he did right was trust Emma Frost, or at least exist so she could fall for him and then mangle the Hellfire Club's plans.

I think if the show had an opening episode that had the X-Men in their usual roles before the explosion, so we had context of where the show would choose to deviate from, I think that would have helped. That would have meant nixing a script, and that wouldn't have been hard. A proper story editor would have valued the overall narrative of the season and not, say, wasted time with a Hulk appearance (especially as a DTV accomplished the same thing, only better). But then again, these are the same guys who had a final season of X-MEN EVOLUTION with 9 episodes and rather than, say, flesh out Colossus, wasted airtime introducing new mutants who would have nothing to do with the finale, like Mirage and Legion.

It would have been hilarious if we got to see the AGE OF APOCALYPSE version of Sunfire in animation again before the normal version.

 

[Zant]

Wow dread disagreed with panthro The show Panthro saw is a bit different from the actual show. In Panthros version Cyclops is the devil and Hitler at the same time

 

[Panthro]

Wow dread disagreed with panthro

Happens quite often actually.

The show Panthro saw is a bit different from the actual show. In Panthros version Cyclops is the devil and Hitler at the same time

Nah, Cyclops was more like the guy who had to get the devil and/or Hitler coffee but had to have his arm twisted to do it.

 

[Zant]

I guess hes not that bad then.He could have left his wife and son for his undead girlfriend, you know like the comics

 

[Panthro]

I guess hes not that bad then.He could have left his wife and son for his undead girlfriend, you know like the comics

That was one of the dumbest storylines the comics ever did, but portraying him as a life long emotionally crippled sociopath as seen in this series doesn't do him any favors either.

 

[Zant]

Dumb storyline or not this version did not sink to the low levels of that comic version

 

[Dread]

I am curious about the specifics to the opening subplot with Colossus. Supposedly, he was going to show up with his sister Magik in a big way, in a story set in Russia. In fact, the entire reason he was withheld from Season 1, according to interviews, was because the writers/producers wanted to introduce him in a dramatic way rather than just have him be a background figure (unlike Iceman or Storm). Alas, this ended up meaning he didn't get to do anything.

The 90's show had an episode centered around Colossus returning to Russia to save his sister and family from Omega Red; I am curious if this would be a remake of that episode in a way, or if it would feature something new. Colossus has baffled many writers in terms of his character and plot, for some reason. Kitty/Colossus isn't treated as a sacred X-relationship like Scott/Jean or Rogue/Gambit are, even though it pre-dates Rogue/Gambit. In fairness, Rogue and Gambit didn't meet in this series; they almost paired Gambit with Polaris, of all people.

I am curious if Havok would have hooked up with Polaris.

I mean it's all moot now, but I'm curious what it could have been like. Colossus hasn't had a decent animated action sequence since "Red Dawn" in the second season of X-MEN, and I'm convinced he never will. I have literally seen Frog-Man appear in a cartoon more recently (FF:WGH circa 2006). He's supposed to be the strongest of the X-Men, and animation is a medium in which feats of strength are easier to depict than in live action; just look at all the Superman stuff out there. Yet with Colossus, that somehow seems impossible. I'll sign that SAVE THE X-MEN petition if someone can show me storyboards that indicate that it woulda been awesome. It would have had to be to make audiences care about a character who hadn't been seen since the pilot as well as make him feel worthwhile despite being absent for so long. But, this show did manage to make Bishop look cool, so there was a chance they'd have pulled it off.

Yeah, I know Colossus had a cameo in "BLACK PANTHER" and the recent X-MEN anime, but...not the same. Poor fella always gets the shaft.

It's not like I wanted a COLOSSUS AND THE X-MEN show or him to be the focus of every episode. That'd be ludicrous. But I still feel he has a vital role in an X-Men show and can offer not only some awesome visuals, but a character who couples well with some, and contrasts with others. I am morbidly curious about what we missed out on with him without a Season 2. He's more recognizable than ****ing Squidboy.

 

[Zant]

Colossus would have been awesome on this show in season 2.Great design and he did not sound ******ed like the 90s version .Also Squid boy was in an episode which was set on a ship around water.He himself said his powers suck before kurt reminded him of their location.He fits in well in the show

 

[Dread]

At the end of the day Squidboy got a focus episode in Season 1 but the show's creators couldn't even keep Colossus around as background noise like they did for Iceman and Storm most of the time (Iceman more so, as Storm got a focus episode, sort of). I think, along with a few things, the writers/producers overthought it. They wanted to make Colossus big and dramatic, and forgot that without his presence around in any capacity, they'd not get a chance to have him to anything big and dramatic. Instead we got feats of strength from the usual parties like Rogue and Blob. I've been seeing feats of strength from Rogue since 1993 when I was 11.

I only posted yesterday at all because on a whim I re-read a "Colossus In Animation" retrospective I wrote for another website in 2009 and it sort of irritated me, as it did then.

The GOOD news is that wherever the X-Men go in animation, Colossus usually pops up in some capacity for a cameo. In fact, the only X-Men appearance where he didn't show up at all is their initial appearance in an episode of NAMOR THE SUB-MARINER in the 60's, when he wasn't created yet. Even in their initial cameos in "SPIDER-MAN AND HIS AMAZING FRIENDS", the metal dude was usually in their rosters, and actually got more screen time there than Wolverine. At the time, NBC considered him too violent because he relied on claws. Of course, NBC also thought talking animals were the future of animation back then. Whether in the 90's cartoon or "WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN" or even small bits like the X-Men Anime or BLACK PANTHER, Colossus has always shown up for a cameo, and while I gripe, that's more than fans of other longtime X-Men characters can say. Banshee and Havok in particular often get short shift, and Psylocke is very close.

The BAD news is the only X-Men cartoon where Colossus was part of the regular, week in, week out roster was the 1989 pilot "PRYDE OF THE X-MEN", which was only a pilot which was never picked up for a season run. It could be fairly argued that Colossus joined the X-Men at the same time as Storm, Nightcrawler, and Wolverine and has as much right to a regular roster spot as all of them, yet he's often dismissed because he's likely seen as "the boring Russian guy". In a franchise that relies on anti-heroes and out and out jerks, he's often out of place. Wolverine was the biggest a-hole the X-Men had seen in the 70's and he's risen to be their most popular member, after all.

Colossus got the most play in "X-MEN EVOLUTION", where he appeared in 8 episodes over the final 3 seasons, most of them written and produced by the same people who did W&TXM. I love that show, but it's treatment of Colossus was one of it's few disappointments. All it did was offer teases of subplots and never deliver. More often than not, he was not a character in that show - he was just a metal minion, and a weak one at that. He literally lost every battle he was in. At almost no point in Evolution did he ever do anything impressive against any meaningful opponent or threat. The most he did was effortlessly defeat Toad - who in that show was comic relief. As much of a jobber as Wolverine was in that series, even that wasn't true of him. For the record, while I liked that Wolverine took a back seat for much of Evolution, I didn't like that he was a jobber - the character doesn't work as a paper tiger.

I don't ask for much out of the big dude. I don't want him to be the star of every episode or even more than one episode a season. I just want him on a regular X-Men cast from pilot to finale and to get his moments here and there, just like everyone else from 1975. I want him to have some interaction in most episodes because with proper writing, you don't NEED a focus episode to develop every character - look at how characters seem to steal episodes in A:EMH (Wasp in particular). I don't think that's asking for much, yet from animation's standpoint, that's like asking for the ****ing winning lottery ticket.

We all make fun of Brett Ratner on X-MEN 3, but even he had the sense to translate the Fastball Special to another medium - TWICE. Not one soul in animation has done that yet.

I'm glad that the X-Men, who often hog animation time, are taking a little bit of a back seat now as Marvel focuses on stuff for the Avengers or Iron Man or Hulk or Chibi Heroes (SUPER HERO SQUAD) for a bit, beyond anime. But it's inevitable that the X-Men will get a new show produced and it'd be nice if the next slate of producers and writers doesn't continue this omission. The fact that Colossus is trucked out for promotions is proof positive that people who think about dollars and cents know damn well he's just as recognizable to the average person as quite a few other X-Men, if not more so.

Colossus' peak in animation was 1994, Season 2 of X-MEN, "Red Dawn". He crushed Omega Red with a tank. I don't get on the 90's show for not using him much because at two episodes, he showed up more than quite a few other longtime X-Men like Iceman. He also was given a bit to do each time, and it's usually better to have a few memorable appearances than a lot of mundane ones. I mean, look at Flash in JL/U. He didn't do much beyond be a comic relief for the first two seasons, and he sat out season 3. Yet all anyone remembers is his defining moment in "DIVIDE AND CONQUER". So it's doable.

 

[Drefan21]

I actually never watched W&TXM. Only saw the 1st episode, logan looked and acted like a *****^^ To me it seemed like they wanted to make Wolverine into something he was not.
Lately i wanted to watch the show. I read mixed reviews about it.
Also i have to admit I´m a huge Cyclops fan so i doubt that i will enjoy it.

 

[Zant]

This show got great reviews.I have not seen any bad reviews yet.Logan a *****? Im sure the guy with the scars on his face will tell u different

 

[Drefan21]

Well on some forums i read many bad reviews.

 

[Zant]

Thats just forums im talking proper reviews.Forums is full of fanboys who take things personal and overeact

 

[Drefan21]

Welli didn´t say it was a bad show. When i asked people if i should watch it some keep saying i shouldn`t.

 

[Goldenage Batman]

You know at first I hated this show? I didn't even watch the show after the first three episodes. But then I for no other reason than me being a X-Men fan I bought the dvd and after being able to see it in it's entirely I've grown to appreciate it and now I wish there was more.