World Web shooter shop class - Part 4

[Wadaltmon]

are you working on a double tap feature?

I'm using the same one I used in the previous shooter, so I'm not really working on it, but it's there.

 

[White_widow13]

I see. Hey, real quick, can I get both of you to explain your web shooter designs to me here on the forums? I want to add it to the google doc. Not only that, I also want to see how our designs compare and contrast so that I can help you and you me when we have more time to work on this project. I just need 3 basic answers.

1.) What kind of pressure vessel are you using (i.e. propellant, vessel material, tubing material, etc)

2.) What valving system are you using (solenoid, cable tension, button press)

3.) What kind of spinneret are you using? (heated, non-heated, parts for constuction, etc)

With those three questions, I can draw up schematics for your shooters to add to your google doc. I'm currently working on mine as an example:

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1dKY2z6tATBwgoteL5U1vaDWfnX7WuTpRRoy_kSpJDIg/edit

 

[mastheon]

1.) Tubing Material
2.) Solenoid
3.) Heated
That's really bascic but something to add

 

[mastheon]

Btw i recently came across something related to the adhesive in the fluid. My sister was showing me something she thought was weird. It involved pastel dust and super glue. Super glue dries pretty fast. But the pastel dust added to the super glue acted as a catalyst and made it dry instantly. It also gave off heat. I searched for it online and got nothing.

 

[White_widow13]

What is pastel dust?

 

[mastheon]

Pastel Dust is something made from rubbing pastel crayons on a surface until a powder or dust is made. You can buy pastel crayons at any craft store they are pretty common.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Pastel Dust is something made from rubbing pastel crayons on a surface until a powder or dust is made. You can buy pastel crayons at any craft store they are pretty common.

I've never heard of that. I might have to try that out.

 

[White_widow13]

Hey, new years resolution here. I want to create a working prototype of at least the vaporizer for the web shooter by the end of the year. I'm thinking about making a calendar by which to complete parts of the project. Whereas one month will be the pvc pressure vessel, and another is heatproofing a bracelet.

What do you all thing about a calendar with set dates, for me to get these things finished by? That way, I stop procrastinating.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Hey, new years resolution here. I want to create a working prototype of at least the vaporizer for the web shooter by the end of the year. I'm thinking about making a calendar by which to complete parts of the project. Whereas one month will be the pvc pressure vessel, and another is heatproofing a bracelet.

What do you all thing about a calendar with set dates, for me to get these things finished by? That way, I stop procrastinating.

Sounds good to me

 

[White_widow13]

What do you think is a realistic calendar? One part per month?

 

[mastheon]

Do either of you think that silicone could maybe be used in the fluid as some sort of elastomer?

 

[mastheon]

Also how are the tubes to remove the solvent heated before being shot out of the spinneret. Could a heated coil be wrapped around the pipe?

 

[mastheon]

Never mind, silicone is too hard to dissolve.

 

[White_widow13]

Mastheon: Do either of you think that silicone could maybe be used in the fluid as some sort of elastomer?Also how are the tubes to remove the solvent heated before being shot out of the spinneret. Could a heated coil be wrapped around the pipe?

WW: Silicone is good for certain types. Not all silicone is created equal. For example, I'm using silicone tubing that is designed to take 500 degrees Fahrenheit. Meanwhile, silicone caulk burns very easily. If you'd like to use silicone, you'd need to research which type to use.

As for your second question, I don't think I understand. Can you elaborate?

 

[mastheon]

How is the heated spinneret heated? I think i may be confused but does the web shooter go from a solenoid valve to some sort of heated tubing that evaporates the solvent?

 

[Wadaltmon]

How is the heated spinneret heated? I think i may be confused but does the web shooter go from a solenoid valve to some sort of heated tubing that evaporates the solvent?

Well, the point of the heating is for the spinneret to be heated so that the solvent is evaporated as the formula is being extruded. Therefore, the spinneret itself should be heated in some way.

The way that I've done it in the past is wrapping it with some nichrome wire and then encasing it in metallic ducting tape.

 

[White_widow13]

That's right. I forgot that you haven't been here for that long Mastheon.

We want to heat the spinneret by using nichrome wire. Nichrome is a metal that can get very hot if you run an electric current through it. It can reach temperatures of up to a couple thousand degrees, and is the metal that you find in toasters.

Now, we want to get the nichrome a little hotter than the boiling point of the solvent.

For acetone, Nichrome should range in heat from 56°C to 100°C
For water, it's 100°C to 175°C
For ethanol it's 78.4°C to 137°C

To get your nichrome sufficiently hot, pick a solvent, buy a gauge of nichrome, and choose what kind of battery you want to use. After that, use the Nichrome calculator on the bottom of the post to make your measurements.

For example:

Solvent: Water
Gauge of Nichrome: 34
Battery: 3V lithium ion (2x 1.5v nickel cadmium batteries work too)
heat: 165°C

All I need to check for is length of wire.

length of wire: 12 cm.

I invite you to fiddle around with this calculator to figure it out and report back soon:

http://www.jacobs-online.biz/nichrome/NichromeCalc.html

 

[White_widow13]

When choosing your temperature, you need to keep two things in mind.

1.) First, you need to consider what the ignition point of your solvent is. Stay far away from that point so that you don't cause your fluid to catch on fire.

2.) second is the Leidenfrost effect. You know how if you put a pan on the stove and then put a drop of water on the pan, it will skate around for a long time? That is caused by the fluid being exposed to heat so hot, that it boils the liquid and causes it to float so that the rest of the fluid doesn't burn. In Layman's terms, if it's too hot, the liquid will try to avoid the heat for as long as possible.

The leidenfrost effect generally takes place at about double the boiling point of a fluid. you can read more about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect

 

[White_widow13]

Hey mastheon, Do you think you will get a youtube account where you will show off your stuff?

 

[White_widow13]

So guys, as a nerd, I am fascinated by the intricate science behind the web shooter stuff. I like to learn things like atomic bonds and synthesis. I am going to work on the website about the mechanics and the chemistry of the web shooter. As spiderman enthusiasts, what would YOU like to know?

FOR CHEMISTRY: How in depth do you want me to go? Do you want bare basics chemistry, or do you want me to get into like functional groups and bonding methods? Do you want just my opinion on PVOH, or do you want me to cover cellulose acetate and other usable polymers?

FOR MECHANICS: Do you want schematics and drawings, How To's, or copies of functional stuff that we've seen work? Do you want more theoretical or concrete? Do you want math or want me to skip it?

I can't start on that part of the site until I get that info. I hate to sound like tech support, but your input is valuable to me.

What do you suggest?

 

[Wadaltmon]

So guys, as a nerd, I am fascinated by the intricate science behind the web shooter stuff. I like to learn things like atomic bonds and synthesis. I am going to work on the website about the mechanics and the chemistry of the web shooter. As spiderman enthusiasts, what would YOU like to know?

FOR CHEMISTRY: How in depth do you want me to go? Do you want bare basics chemistry, or do you want me to get into like functional groups and bonding methods? Do you want just my opinion on PVOH, or do you want me to cover cellulose acetate and other usable polymers?

FOR MECHANICS: Do you want schematics and drawings, How To's, or copies of functional stuff that we've seen work? Do you want more theoretical or concrete? Do you want math or want me to skip it?

I can't start on that part of the site until I get that info. I hate to sound like tech support, but your input is valuable to me.

What do you suggest?

I think that there should be both basic and advanced information. The basic information would be enough that someone could get started and possibly even build their own basic mechanical shooter and preliminary formula.

In the chemistry part, you can make the basic information be something like a basic description of polymers and their use in the project, and also include your opinions on the various polymers that one could use. The advanced section would go more into depth on the actual synthesization of monomers at the atomic level, the properties of elastomeric compounds, organic compounds, stuff like methyl groups that provide various properties, etc.

In the mechanical part, you should make some basic how to's (i.e. how to make a pressure vessel, how to make a discrete solenoid, etc.) and talk about how a basic vessel would interface with a trigger and release valve in the basic section. In the advanced section, there would be things like descriptions and pictures of advanced electronic/electrical systems, solvent removal methods, spinneret constructions, and some theoretical material.

Let me know if you'd want any help with writing it.

 

[White_widow13]

I'm going to admit. As far as electronic systems go, I'm pretty weak. I know how to wire a battery to a resistor and add in a switch. I know how to put the batteries in series or in parallel. I don't however know anything about Arduino, microcontrollers, or even transistors. That would be a helpful write-up from you if you are willing.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Yeah, I could do that. I'd have to figure out what to put in it though.

 

[mastheon]

I have a limited amount of knowledge on batteries. Can someone tell me what battery can power a solenoid valve that needs 110v?

 

[White_widow13]

I have a limited amount of knowledge on batteries. Can someone tell me what battery can power a solenoid valve that needs 110v?

Unfortunately, 110V requires a battery that would either be too big to carry, too expensive to buy or maintain, or would burn out easy.

110V and 220v are the standard voltage outputs of houses. 110 is what comes out of a wall socket. 220 is what powers your washer and dryer.

The biggest battery that you can carry is a 24v, which is a car battery. To achieve the required voltage, you'd have to "daisy-chain" about 5 of those together.

You should look for a solenoid valve that is 12v or less. Your standard 12v can be run by a 9v battery for a short amount of time, and you can get bulk 3v lithium batteries for cheap on amazon.

These are going to be your best bet for size, cost, and voltage:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-2-Way-N...id=100034&rk=4&rkt=8&mehot=pp&sd=201153879353

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-So...546?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f9ade8aa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-2W-1...251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43da5c5dd3