World Webbing formula

[White_widow]

What's your formula designed to do?

 

[Wadaltmon]

Basically, it is going to be really almost liquid inside the many strands, and a little dry, but still sticky on the outside.

 

[White_widow]

what's the purpose of the fluid?

 

[Wadaltmon]

It's to be used for swinging and trapping criminals.
On another note, I think I may have got it.
Remember the "Spirit Gum" I was talking about? Basically, it contains an alcohol lotion, a resin, and some castor oil for preservation. It has all the stuff we need for the fluid except the fact that it is totally liquid...
I really came across this by accident... I left the spirit gum uncapped for a few days in my room, and when I came back and found it, it was very viscous and took all day just to settle in the bottle if it was tipped over.
Seeing as it had lost its moisture, and I wished to apply it to a fake mustache that it came with, I put water into it, so the gum and water were of approximately equal portions. They were not mixing, so I stirred them with a toothpick. This is when the most extraordinary thing happened.
As I stirred it, it began to fizz and bubble uncontrollably, so I backed away.
After it died down, I went over and saw a new, almost solid compound, which felt like Elmer's glue that was almost (though not completely) dry. It is extremely sticky, it took a knife and a few cups of olive oil to get it off of my hands.
But, after the remains had sit in open air for a while, they separated into 3 clear liquids... Like the dissolving effect that Peter's webs have.
Though this mixture could not pass through the valve I have, I plan to get more Spirit Gum and add a bit less water and some vinegar and a small pinch of salt, which I hope will be my final formula.
EDIT: I just ran a few tests on a few cake toppers... It is proven to be shear thinning in this form.

 

[White_widow]

Awesome! That sounds pretty cool. The vinegar and salt speeds a reaction to cold temperature though. I'm not sure what it will do for yours. I'm curious to imagine what had evaporated from the spirit gum to allow for it to react with water. Still, never the less, that sounds like a good option. I hope it ends up being successful. Not sure about swinging though. If you can ramp up the tensile strength, It'd be curious to see what would happen.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I tested it (the gas) , and I think it may be carbon dioxide.
And the tensile strength is one thing I plan to work on, by adding a synthetic plastic stuff I have.

 

[White_widow]

Interesting. If the substance was dry, It might be the solvent that evaporated. The violent reaction with water is interesting. I'd look into that.

I found out something interesting about the nano-formula. (mind you, it needs to be made in a lab.)

The current formula that I am theorizing is composed of several components:

Cyanoacrylate
graphene
(maybe) magnesium oxide
nano-cellulose
acetone
water
(maybe soap)

I found out that nano-cellulose is shear thinning when in it's solid form. Mix that with its incredibly high tensile strength, the easy emulsions, and the reaction with cyanoacrylate. I think, unless a better adhesive is invented, I have my formula.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I may not be able to work that up, unless my chemistry teacher will allow me to use his lab and materials.
I really like it, I wanna see how it works through the spinneret valve.

 

[White_widow]

That's probably true. I would need Tempo and magnesium to make web fluid. Maybe magnesium can be purchased from hom, but I know for a fact that Tempo isn't.

Now for shear thinning. I've been trying to figure out how that works for a while, and I gave up on it a while ago. After you brought it up, a quick google search gave me an idea. The Nasa scientist says that it's because pressure puts it at the stage between a gas in a liquid. I have another thing to add to the theory.

Shear thinning happens in motor oil, blood, whipped cream, ketchup, nano cellulose, and your web fluid. Do you see a pattern?

All of these things are heavily dependent on hydrogen bonding. Most of them contain sugars or starches. Also, it's been determined that shear thickening occurs when the hydrogen bonds are under pressure, they bond to something else after being broken.

This leads me to believe that shear thinning occurs because the hydrogen bonds are being broken, but due to the asymmetrical shape of the mollecules, they have to slide some distance to actually find/bond to another hydrogen/oxygen mollecule. If that is the case, then your formula might have some sort of hydrogen bonding. That means that your tensile strength might be easy to modify. Also, it's probably highly reactive, if it reacts with water, something that is usually used to slow or diltute reactions. It might bond with hydroxide. Just a thought.

 

[Wadaltmon]

That's probably true. I would need Tempo and magnesium to make web fluid. Maybe magnesium can be purchased from hom, but I know for a fact that Tempo isn't.

Now for shear thinning. I've been trying to figure out how that works for a while, and I gave up on it a while ago. After you brought it up, a quick google search gave me an idea. The Nasa scientist says that it's because pressure puts it at the stage between a gas in a liquid. I have another thing to add to the theory.

Shear thinning happens in motor oil, blood, whipped cream, ketchup, nano cellulose, and your web fluid. Do you see a pattern?

All of these things are heavily dependent on hydrogen bonding. Most of them contain sugars or starches. Also, it's been determined that shear thickening occurs when the hydrogen bonds are under pressure, they bond to something else after being broken.

This leads me to believe that shear thinning occurs because the hydrogen bonds are being broken, but due to the asymmetrical shape of the mollecules, they have to slide some distance to actually find/bond to another hydrogen/oxygen mollecule. If that is the case, then your formula might have some sort of hydrogen bonding. That means that your tensile strength might be easy to modify. Also, it's probably highly reactive, if it reacts with water, something that is usually used to slow or diltute reactions. It might bond with hydroxide. Just a thought.

Yes, I believe that there is bonding with hydrogen, and I may strengthen it with hydrogen peroxide and see how that reacts.

 

[Spectacular23]

I"m really liking the idea with Spirit gum. But are you guaranteed that even with the water and spirit gum bonding that's it's adhesive enough to hold a average 157-189 pounds human. Let along thousands of pounds? What the deal as far as tensile strength?

 

[Wadaltmon]

I"m really liking the idea with Spirit gum. But are you guaranteed that even with the water and spirit gum bonding that's it's adhesive enough to hold a average 157-189 pounds human. Let along thousands of pounds? What the deal as far as tensile strength?

This has yet to be seen, as it will need to be put through the spinneret for us to be sure.

 

[White_widow]

Yes, I believe that there is bonding with hydrogen, and I may strengthen it with hydrogen peroxide and see how that reacts.

As environmentally unfriendly as this is, try a hydrocarbon. Carbon is a wonderful strengthening agent.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Though it is not environmentally friendly, it works. Plus I live in a place where it rains a lot.

 

[White_widow]

I'm debating whether or not to use some different glue. Cyanoacrylate is strong. There was a man who used one drop to strap a bungy cord to a harness. But the cyanoacrylate might weaken the formula if it takes too many bonds. Not only that, but it forces me to use acetone. Acetone slows the drying time significantly. yet, once it dries, cyanoacrylate is perfect. I wonder if there are any other instant glues, not related to the original CA.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I'm debating whether or not to use some different glue. Cyanoacrylate is strong. There was a man who used one drop to strap a bungy cord to a harness. But the cyanoacrylate might weaken the formula if it takes too many bonds. Not only that, but it forces me to use acetone. Acetone slows the drying time significantly. yet, once it dries, cyanoacrylate is perfect. I wonder if there are any other instant glues, not related to the original CA.

I'll look at the container tomorrow, but I have some glue that dries almost instantly. It probably contains cyanocrylate, but probably something else as well... try using salt, or a little bit of pure sodium (not too much).

 

[White_widow]

If it's super strong, chances are it's got cyanoacrylate.

There are only two instant adhesives that I know about.

-cyanoacrylate
-contact cement

both of them require some time. Cyanoacrylate is chemically bonded and contact cement is a solvent drying. Cyanoacrylate will bond to the formula, but it might also change it's chemical composition. Contact cement isn't as strong but it is rubbery and quick dying.

I'm thinking we need a pressure based adhesive. The problem is that it is the weakest adhesive.

there is that nanoglue, that is a polyurethane glue with adhesive strength that is more adhesive that everything else, but it needs to be chemically altered.

It is possible that when I start taking a chemistry class in college, I might have to make my own adhesive.

 

[Wadaltmon]

Making your own, custom adhesive would be by far the best option.

 

[White_widow]

I found something out yesterday. Graphene and somewhat nano-cullulose have shockingly high adhesion properties due to van der wal (sp?) forces. Once both have been collected in pure form and bonded together, it should be naturally adhesive until something touches it. I'm not sure if it would work exactly like that, but it might be a good bet. It will just take research.

 

[Wadaltmon]

You mean nano-cellulose?
And wouldnt that defeat the purpose; if you web onto something then it is touched and no longer adhesive, right? Or is it a gradual thing?

 

[White_widow]

No it means that it would make a great adhesive bond, but for those of you who want to swing, you could let go.

 

[Wadaltmon]

No it means that it would make a great adhesive bond, but for those of you who want to swing, you could let go.

Not bad; I was just going to cover my gloves in Teflon. But where can I buy that stuff?

 

[White_widow]

I don't know, but it's been around for a long time.

 

[Wadaltmon]

I just need to know where to buy all these chemicals... This is where google comes in.

 

[White_widow]

All you need for graphene is magnesium metal and dry ice blocks.