World Webbing formula

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, I'm not very good at chemistry, but I think a liquid form as H2Mg2BaPoTe (with those numbers being subscripts), then H2Mg2BaPoTeO as the solid form.
Just an idea.
 
what exactly is that I tried to look it up, but I didn't find anything.
 
Hey everyone, I know I haven't been on in a really long time, but I finally have enough free time to continue this project. So I was taking a look at the Polyvynil Alchohol formula, and, White Widow or Wadaltmon correct me if I'm wrong, I just began to learn chemistry from a friend, but the equation for the fluid would be:

(C11nH13NO6Mg)x

This is my first go at trying to figure this out chemically, so help me fix whatever is wrong. The parenthesis are from the pva equation. The "n" is what I could find stood for graphene.
 
White widow with your Nano-cellulose, cyanoacrylate, surfactant and fine silica powder formula, since the silica stays suspended in the solution, wouldn't that make it a shear- thickening or non newtonian fluid because the other liquids would slide from between the grains of silica and make it become virtually solid, or do you have the ratio setup so that will not happen?
 
I'm not exactly sure with either of those chemical formulas. There has to be a balanced equation to figure it out.

Keep in mind that most of the work that I do is theoretical, and therefore, I make no such guarentees. The only saving grace to the Polyvinyl alcohol theory is the graphene. Without it, it becomes nothing more than a more solid rubber cement (that burns clothes)

As for the nano-cellulose, surfactant, silica powder, I'm pretty sure that it won't become a shear thickening liquid if it's suspended. The reason I say it that the viscosity only changes due to chemical bonds. Until the silica bonds to the formula, it would just float, contributing to nothing. Once bonded however it would. Until the cyanoacrylate reacts though, I would have to hypothesize that the formula would follow the properties of the backbone of the polymer matrix. It's a good point though. It could only be proved through sufficient testing. The formula can be made from banana peels and pineapple leaves. If only I had the machinary.
 
I was wrong when I started this forum. I was very wrong. I'm reading all of these comments and realizing that "Shear thinning" is much more important than I had realized. Almost every one of our formulations thus far has been a chemically solidifying liquid. Here is the problem though, almost every instantaneously curing substance requires another reactant. Most of our formulas have been based on cyanoacrylate hardening or polyurthane expanding creating the tough fiber. That's wrong though.

Here's why:

A shear thinning liquid (STL) will remain a liquid until it is released. This means you can compress it.

A chemically hardened liquid (CHL) will harden only if the chemistry is sound. Not only that but often, even the crosslinking of such a formula can't be checked. Most likely, if a catalyst is added, the formula will become brittle. Too much catalyst and you are wasting material. Too little, and you risk the formula not taking. That means that for everone who wants to make a shooter that supports the catalyst, they have to calculate viscosity, pressure has to be calibrated perfectly, the chemistry must be checked before even considering a successful test run. All in all, that is a huge margin of error. I'm going to guess that most of you are still interested in swinging, as there is no amount of disuasion that I can use to stop you. But let me tell you this. If you use a (CHL) there is a higher chance that you are going to get hurt. And I mean much much higher.

The solution is simple. We make the formula shear thinning, and the glue must be changed. What's more, this glue must be pressure based, and not effect the shooter's parts.
 
Last edited:
Would a mixture of pvc powder and cyanoacrylate dissolved in acetone be shear thinning. Because I don't know of any really strong pressure sensitive adhesives.(the strongest one I can think of is gorilla tape)
 
If I may state what "The Spider-Man Handbook" by Seth Grahame-Smith hath said...
"[The fluid has to be] a highly adhesive, shear-thinning, air-hardening/dissolving, nontoxic, fire-resistant polymer with three times the tensile strength of steel."
Under the section about it being shear-thinning, it states:
"Shear thinning or shear thickening refers to the effects of a shearing force (say, being forced through a nozzle at high speed) on a fluid's viscosity. Spidey's fluid is shear-thinning -- stored in a near-solid state inside his web cartridges until it passes through the shooters' nozzles."

So shear thinning would be good to work on, but also some other things too. So shear thinning is the first bit to work on here.
The thing is, I haven't the slightest idea on where to begin, except I know that shear thinning's viscosity decreases as force is put on it.
Here is a study that NASA did on shear-thinning, if you would like to take a look at it. ( http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/25apr_cvx2/ ) I assume we will have to make the formula non-newtonian for it to even function, but that's just an assumption.
 
True, but in the spiderman universe, a teenager gets powers by being bitten by an arachnid. To say that everything in that universe or even the attempts at justifiable realism in that book (I loved their explanation of spider sense) are accurate is off hand. I think we need a heirarchy (sic) of properties that the fluid must meet. The top will be the most important, while the bottom will contain the fantastic. For example:

1.) shear thinning. Without this, the web won't actually harden. a chemical or thermal attempt will either leave it un-hardened or give the recipient burns.

Exception: silly string style formulations that consist of resins, propellants, and surfactants.

Very close 2.) adhesive and non-toxic. The web has to be as sticky as it is safe. Once the web has taken shapes, it must adhere, and not injure anyone (for example, the before mentioned burning)

exceptions: None. Despite the fact that Shear thinning gives webbing it's physical composition, these two properties will set apart the nylon 6,10's of the formula chain from webbing.

3.) Strength/fire resistant. Now that we've made a fiber that can hold it's shape and stick, it's time to make it indestructable.

exceptions: If you are using this to decorate your house for halloween. Or, you know, using it for self defense. Making it too strong may kill or blind someone (adhesive plus face equals bad idea). In which case, just buy that cheap cotton webbing at Walmart.

4.) Biodegradability- So low on the list because it is possibly the most difficult property to obtain. This will make the webbing very hard to engineer.

Exceptions: If you are making the webbing to support collapsing structures. Firemen need their buildings to stay intact right?

Repeat this for all properties. Include properties like translucent, conductive, elastic, expansive, etc.
 
I think we need to look at sugars and cellulose blends for this formula though guys.

-Simple sugars can create adhesives that rival super glues.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2006/04/10/glue-bacteria060410.html

-Shear thickening (as mentioned by wadaltmon) is based on sugar molecules sliding past each other due to their shape, but still chemically bonding due to structural similarities. (The only exception to this rule is paint. The others are ketchup, whipped cream, and blood. All have a strong sugary component)

-Cellulose... Aw, I've beaten this one to death. It's made from every plant and when made right, it can be both biodegradable, and as strong as cast iron.

-Carbon component- what do you get when you mix acid with powdered sugar? Pure carbon. Seeing as though carbon in the form of graphene is stronger than diamond, a molecular formula that has a carbon component is important. Sure it only makes graphite, but it does so in a foaming manner.

-Van der waal's forces- on a molecular level, adhesion is super strong. That property is in charge of a new range of glues. (That includes every spiderman climbing device that is being created by the military). This is found heavily in molecules with heavy hydrogen and carbon components which is found in many sugars.


I'm spitballing here, but I'm pretty sure that we can make some sweet things by turning to nature vs unnatural chemicals. (Especially if you want biodegradability and the ability to actually make it in large quantities)
 
How exactly do you turn the sugar into an adhesive, and with the van der waals forces the surface area of the web touching another surface would have to be pretty big for it to have any significant affect.
 
Hey guys. I was kinda off a while white widow sorry. I made a webshooter prototype that shoots webs, even in a spiderweb design, but it doesn't have much strength. I wondered if your brilliant minds could help me work off it? If you would like pics and vids of it email me @ [email protected]. It's not exactly finished either.
 
I'll give you my analysis.

It's sticky and spreads out and does a good coating. It's also stretchy. And with a little air applied it can travel a great distance. As of right now, it's more of a prop type thing. But I was thinking maybe we can tinker with it. It doesn't dissolve either. I know I'm kind of interrupting but I just thought I'd throw it out there to see if you guys could help me?
 
Spidey44: I haven't the slightest clue. ^^' I'm afraid to say that biology was never a strong suit of mine. I'm just pointing out a pattern I've noticed. Nothing more or less.
 
I think the big problem with the celluose is probably getting it. I know they make it in powder but all I can find seems to be protein powder. So unless we find somewhere to get the celluose we need, or find a way to take it out of plant cells I'd box that out.
 
would graphite powder help you White Widow? because they sell it at appliance stores or places like that, it's a lubricant for door knobs and keyholes.
 
It's super expensive to buy that graphene powder. The acid and powdered sugar can produce Massive amounts of carbon. If it's anything like the magnesium experiment, it might be graphene. It's just a matter of dissolving it.

As for the thing about the cellulose pattern, I believe that it is impossible for now. Nanostructures will be my bread and butter in the future, but until then I think we might be stuck on a compound that is shear thinning, nontoxic, as strong or stronger than steel, and SUPER adhesive to everything but skin. Forget all of the properties, and those in themselves are near impossible to reach on the regular level. I've only found plastics like that on the nano level. The only compound I've found like that is the cellulose... :csad:
 
I know my formula is shear thinning, thanks to a lot of bad aftertastes and a couple of bendy straws, but I also know that it is not fire resistant; it melts with too much heat (somewhere around 230 degrees). I think I will modify this one, and also symbioteshost, I would love to see these pictures. Sounds incredible.
 
wadaltmon, are you talking about the fluid that you made with the pipe cleaner? If so, I would recommend you put that no where near your mouth. It's toxic. It's very unlikely that the combination of ingredients you put in would all create a chemical masterpiece that is safe for consumption. Still, it's yours. Anywho, if you want to stifle flammability, I recommend borax. It's a nice crosslinking agent, it's safe to humans, and it's flame ******ant. That or magnesium oxide.., but that might be a little too pricey.
 
wadaltmon, are you talking about the fluid that you made with the pipe cleaner? If so, I would recommend you put that no where near your mouth. It's toxic. It's very unlikely that the combination of ingredients you put in would all create a chemical masterpiece that is safe for consumption. Still, it's yours. Anywho, if you want to stifle flammability, I recommend borax. It's a nice crosslinking agent, it's safe to humans, and it's flame ******ant. That or magnesium oxide.., but that might be a little too pricey.

No, I didn't mean I ate it, but thanks for your concern. I meant they told me I had to buy something to get a straw, and the food was kind of gross. Also, yeah, that Borax seems like a good idea. Also, I can get magnesium oxide easily; my Chem teacher gives me chemicals if I need them. At least sometimes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"