What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS* - Part 1

Similar to Clark having to go through an experience to fortify his no-kill rule, I think it's fair to say that he was pretty overwhelmed fighting this group of kryptonians in his first fight, and really didn't have the opportunity to focus on the people as much as he'd have liked to. Mayhap he will learn from this and be more wary of it in future films. The amount of destruction distracted me my first viewing, but on second viewing it was pretty clear he was already struggling to keep up with the active threats, let alone others. I think this was done purposefully, so story wise it works, but pacing wise, it could definitely have felt less monotonous.
 
@br0adband: I understand that he is a superhero noob, and I wrote how I didn't mind the destruction of Metropolis, but the writer and the director should have added some stuff to make the movie better and then people wouldn't be complaining so much about the "destruction porn".

I understand that a fight between kryptonians has to cause a lot of damage, but the director could have used a couple of shots to show us how the city was being evacuated, and how Superman used his x-ray vision to check which buildings had been evacuated and how he tried to move the fight to the evacuated zones.

Those shots would have lasted just a few seconds and would have improved the movie by showing us that Superman was being as careful as he could instead of asking the audience to take it for granted, because then everybody will talk abou how Superman didn't care for all the people dying around.

And even if he is a noob, he should be concerned about thousands of people dying around because of him, since Zod is there because of him and they are destroying a whole city with millions of innocent citizens, you can't say "he is just a noob and he did everything he could" when that's not what is being shown in the film, the director has to show us that he is really doing all he can to save as many lives as possible, and he could do it with just a few shots showing the evacuation and Superman using his powers to fight Zod without hurting innocents, otherwise it looks like if somebody had cut the parts where Superman cares about all the people dying around, and that is not Superman, Superman cares for the loss of innocent lives from day one or otherwise he would just stay at home while Zod kills everybody.

Superman kissing Lois in the middle of all that destruction instead of being terrified by it and trying to save victims is really unbelievable and excessively cold if you don't show how most of the people have been evacuated and saved while he was fighting Zod.

Even if the evacuation was shown, he should show some respect for all the people that has died because of him and he should feel devastated instead of horny. He cries and yells when he kills Zod, but the director doesn't bother to show us how he feels about all the human victims, there is not a single shot with Superman being sorry for all the deaths he has caused. He has saved billions, yes, but he has also caused the deaths of many others, but he seems to care strictly about Zod's death, Snyder doesn't show us how he feels about all the detruction and all the human deaths, Snyder doesn't show us Superman trying to help the survivors, we just don't know if the city was evacuated or if millions of citizens have died, he just show us Superman making out with Lois with, maybe, thousand of dead bodies around beneath the buildings, because we just don't know if said buildings were completely evacuated, a kid could be dying beside them while he is kissing his girl, you can't justify that with a "he has been Superman for only 24 hours" excuse.

Snyder should have shown us the aftermath with Superman trying to help as much as he could, and the people of Metropilis and the rest of the world either loving him for saving them all, or hating him for being the cause of everything that has just happened, but we don't know if he is seen as a hero or not, we just don't know if the greatest superhero is actually seen by the world as such. We just see how he talks with his mom, with the army guy, and then he is riding his bike to the Planet with a smile on his face like if nothing had happened. That could have been done much better with just a few extra shots and/or scenes, and this is not Superman's/Clark's fault, the writer, the director or the editor are the ones to blame, Superman's inexperience has nothing to do with it.

Regarding the Black Zero spaceship, don't tell me how "nobody was really innocent". Kryptonians had the technology to travel to other planets and galaxies and they didn't use it because they were just plain stupid. They knew that they were going to die and they didn't move a finger according to this movie. Snyder should have shown us that they learned about Krypton's destiny AFTER Zod and company had been sent to the Phantom Zone, because otherwise they should have used Black Zero to save their own kind like Zod tried to do later. Zod and the others could modify the spaceship to travel to other planets, are you going to tell me that Jor-El or other scientists like him couldn't have done the same to actually save the kryptonian kind?

They should have shown Zod's rebellion, then he is sent to the Phantom Zone with Black Zero, then Jor-El learns the planet is dying and there is no time to evacuate, but he has a spaceship and a destination for his son because he already had a plan just in case the council learned that Kal-El was a naturally born child. That makes sense, and I don't know if that was what I saw in the movie, I've seen it just once, but I don't remember it that way.

Lack of experience is also a very bad excuse for what he does to "help" his mom in Smallville. It's just lack of intelligence, but again this is not Superman's fault, this is just the writer and the director wanting a kryptonian fight in the middle of a populated area instead of in the middle of the cornfields. Superman should have grabbed his mom an take her away flying, then come back and kick some kryptonian ass. If he just punches Zod till the next populated area, he is not only risking the lives of innocents for no reason by taking the fight there, he is also leaving his mom alone with the other kryptonians that could just kill her to hurt him just for daring to touch their general. I've never been a hero and I have no superpowers, but I have a brain, being unexperienced does not equal to being stupid.

And Jonathan's dead was just ridiculous and unnecesary, he dies for no reason, it's just a writer's trick to show us some kind of ******ed lesson the hero supposedly needs to learn and an artificial life-changing moment that nobody with a brain and a heart could understand why happened, he just killed himself and Clark allowed it.

I could go on and on, and you could say again how Superman has been a hero for just 24 hours and he did what he could. I understand that, I don't blame him, I blame the writer and the director for the bad choices they have done. I hope that some kind of extended cut is released for the bluray to fix some of these flaws, because the movie has a lot of potential to be great, and the sequels could be even better.

Best written piece on the negative of the movie and how, with very little tweaks, the movie could have been an instant classic...

It all boils down to 'believability' and the Jonathan's death is totally unbelievable... it's the stupidest part of the film if you asked me and anyone who buys into the logic of goyer's writing is well.. :doh:

As for the majority of the problem with the film, just need better editing of each of the scenes... prob won't add too much effort to it.. a bit more smiles for superman, a bit more setup for each action scenes/emotional scenes, a bit more interation between supes/lois to lock in their relationships so the kiss at the end is believable.. etc...

Again, it's disappointing to me (as a superman fan and want it to succeed as much as possible) to see (in hindsight that is, so, i get it, it could be just purely mistakes), that this movie can go from an 7-8 to a 10... (personally i gave it a 9/10 because i still loved it.. but i also know the GA is lukewarm about it... )
 
When Clark swooped in on Zod to protect Ma Kent, did he stop to think that he left her alone with the "OTHER" Kryptonian maniacs???

I know he's a rookie, .....but that was stupid. I'm surprised they left her alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XYsvHCOoY
 
When Clark swooped in on Zod to protect Ma Kent, did he stop to think that he left her alone with the "OTHER" Kryptonian maniacs???

I know he's a rookie, .....but that was stupid. I'm surprised they left her alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XYsvHCOoY

Actually, no where were the Kryptonians/Zod killing random people for killing's sake... they are soldiers and zod's a general on a mission... remember, on Krypton, he didn't kill Superman's mom...

They threatened Supe's mom for information.. that's all they were doing.. there was no need for killing once they got what they wanted... they only kill in self defense mostly... when the army attacked them, they fight back...
 
Superman killing Zod was hardly an issue for the film. It's just a plot point some people may disagree with. It doesn't actually contradict anything in the film... the problem with the film is the dialogue. Oy vay. You want a pew pew comic book movie this is it. There's nothing deeper here. It could have been... They could have really elaborated on scenes and themes but it was just so much in such little time, all the details were skipped over.
 
Actually, no where were the Kryptonians/Zod killing random people for killing's sake... they are soldiers and zod's a general on a mission... remember, on Krypton, he didn't kill Superman's mom...

They threatened Supe's mom for information.. that's all they were doing.. there was no need for killing once they got what they wanted... they only kill in self defense mostly... when the army attacked them, they fight back...

I don't know....that Kryptonian chick was pretty blood thirsty.
 
This seems like the right place to ask this question (and I apologize in advance if it has already been asked and answered). Why was Clark hurt by the sentinel/hovering robot in the ancient Scout ship? It lashed out at him, and he responded as if in pain, and later rubbed his arm, as if he was injured. He also struggled to destroy it, when he should have been able to smash it without even thinking about it. The air in the scout ship was plain old air, so what's up with that?
 
He doesn't bleed when threatened by people of his own kind but Kryptonian tech can hurt him. Realism.
 
Just watched Superman: Braniac Attacks, Superman beats up robot Braniac and throws him through some buildings; just thought I'd mention that.
 
Actually, no where were the Kryptonians/Zod killing random people for killing's sake... they are soldiers and zod's a general on a mission... remember, on Krypton, he didn't kill Superman's mom...

They threatened Supe's mom for information.. that's all they were doing.. there was no need for killing once they got what they wanted... they only kill in self defense mostly... when the army attacked them, they fight back...
:up: exactly what i thought. they are honorable fighters. they wouldn't take innocents as ransom and demand the hero to surrender. they fight to win.
 
I'd have probably excised the last Superman vs. Zod battle, or removed an earlier action scene to make room for it. I get that some people just want to see Superman punch people but the last fight felt gratuitous and disruptive of the flow of the film, which had arrived an organic conclusion after the world engine is destroyed and Clark gets his kiss with Lois Lane. Having yet another huge, video game-esque, battle where even more of Metropolis is destroyed and more people are likely slaughtered off screen and unmentioned was unnecessary. I don't actually mind that Superman kills Zod at the end of the fight but you could have accomplished the same point if Zod had simply threatened to kill those standing next to Superman, Lois, Perry, etc., and Clark was forced to put him down. Considering those characters had been developed more than a few nameless citizens, who were given precedence over the thousands that die during the whole thing for some strange reason, Zod's murder would have actually worked better.
 
Superman KILLS a LOT in the Justice League cartoons...

I don't get this 'Superman will never kill under any circumstances' outside of the comics...

superman-crying.jpg


Superman didn't kill anyone in the cartoons. Nobody was in those buildings when Superman fought Captain Marvel.
 
When Clark swooped in on Zod to protect Ma Kent, did he stop to think that he left her alone with the "OTHER" Kryptonian maniacs???

I know he's a rookie, .....but that was stupid. I'm surprised they left her alive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XYsvHCOoY

Yes, it was a rookie mistake. This was an origin film base on realism, right. You can't expect an untrained hero to be perfect on his first mission. I mean, this is not "Superman: The Movie".
 
I definitely would have cut off that fight Supes had with the CGI snake or whatever it was.

The whole thing was just weird. It's like watching Snyder's CGI acid trip comes to life.

I actually wouldn't mind if the fight ended without Superman and Zod final fight. By the time that fight started, i was already exhausted by all the massive destructions and fight scenes.

I liked the movie just fine, but can't deny that the movie got some serious issues...pacing is definitely one of them.There was no sense of build up or escalation, things just...happened.
 
@br0adband: I understand that he is a superhero noob, and I wrote how I didn't mind the destruction of Metropolis, but the writer and the director should have added some stuff to make the movie better and then people wouldn't be complaining so much about the "destruction porn".

I understand that a fight between kryptonians has to cause a lot of damage, but the director could have used a couple of shots to show us how the city was being evacuated, and how Superman used his x-ray vision to check which buildings had been evacuated and how he tried to move the fight to the evacuated zones.

Those shots would have lasted just a few seconds and would have improved the movie by showing us that Superman was being as careful as he could instead of asking the audience to take it for granted, because then everybody will talk abou how Superman didn't care for all the people dying around.

And even if he is a noob, he should be concerned about thousands of people dying around because of him, since Zod is there because of him and they are destroying a whole city with millions of innocent citizens, you can't say "he is just a noob and he did everything he could" when that's not what is being shown in the film, the director has to show us that he is really doing all he can to save as many lives as possible, and he could do it with just a few shots showing the evacuation and Superman using his powers to fight Zod without hurting innocents, otherwise it looks like if somebody had cut the parts where Superman cares about all the people dying around, and that is not Superman, Superman cares for the loss of innocent lives from day one or otherwise he would just stay at home while Zod kills everybody.

Superman kissing Lois in the middle of all that destruction instead of being terrified by it and trying to save victims is really unbelievable and excessively cold if you don't show how most of the people have been evacuated and saved while he was fighting Zod.

Even if the evacuation was shown, he should show some respect for all the people that has died because of him and he should feel devastated instead of horny. He cries and yells when he kills Zod, but the director doesn't bother to show us how he feels about all the human victims, there is not a single shot with Superman being sorry for all the deaths he has caused. He has saved billions, yes, but he has also caused the deaths of many others, but he seems to care strictly about Zod's death, Snyder doesn't show us how he feels about all the detruction and all the human deaths, Snyder doesn't show us Superman trying to help the survivors, we just don't know if the city was evacuated or if millions of citizens have died, he just show us Superman making out with Lois with, maybe, thousand of dead bodies around beneath the buildings, because we just don't know if said buildings were completely evacuated, a kid could be dying beside them while he is kissing his girl, you can't justify that with a "he has been Superman for only 24 hours" excuse.

Snyder should have shown us the aftermath with Superman trying to help as much as he could, and the people of Metropilis and the rest of the world either loving him for saving them all, or hating him for being the cause of everything that has just happened, but we don't know if he is seen as a hero or not, we just don't know if the greatest superhero is actually seen by the world as such. We just see how he talks with his mom, with the army guy, and then he is riding his bike to the Planet with a smile on his face like if nothing had happened. That could have been done much better with just a few extra shots and/or scenes, and this is not Superman's/Clark's fault, the writer, the director or the editor are the ones to blame, Superman's inexperience has nothing to do with it.

Regarding the Black Zero spaceship, don't tell me how "nobody was really innocent". Kryptonians had the technology to travel to other planets and galaxies and they didn't use it because they were just plain stupid. They knew that they were going to die and they didn't move a finger according to this movie. Snyder should have shown us that they learned about Krypton's destiny AFTER Zod and company had been sent to the Phantom Zone, because otherwise they should have used Black Zero to save their own kind like Zod tried to do later. Zod and the others could modify the spaceship to travel to other planets, are you going to tell me that Jor-El or other scientists like him couldn't have done the same to actually save the kryptonian kind?

They should have shown Zod's rebellion, then he is sent to the Phantom Zone with Black Zero, then Jor-El learns the planet is dying and there is no time to evacuate, but he has a spaceship and a destination for his son because he already had a plan just in case the council learned that Kal-El was a naturally born child. That makes sense, and I don't know if that was what I saw in the movie, I've seen it just once, but I don't remember it that way.

Lack of experience is also a very bad excuse for what he does to "help" his mom in Smallville. It's just lack of intelligence, but again this is not Superman's fault, this is just the writer and the director wanting a kryptonian fight in the middle of a populated area instead of in the middle of the cornfields. Superman should have grabbed his mom an take her away flying, then come back and kick some kryptonian ass. If he just punches Zod till the next populated area, he is not only risking the lives of innocents for no reason by taking the fight there, he is also leaving his mom alone with the other kryptonians that could just kill her to hurt him just for daring to touch their general. I've never been a hero and I have no superpowers, but I have a brain, being unexperienced does not equal to being stupid.

And Jonathan's dead was just ridiculous and unnecesary, he dies for no reason, it's just a writer's trick to show us some kind of ******ed lesson the hero supposedly needs to learn and an artificial life-changing moment that nobody with a brain and a heart could understand why happened, he just killed himself and Clark allowed it.

And I repeat: no serious movie shows aliens speaking perfect english for no reason. There are a billion ways to make clear that their original language is kryptonian without needing subtitles, it has been done for decades with tons of movies with characters that didn't speak english, they just had to think about a clever way to do it like many other movies have since a long time ago.

I could go on and on, and you could say again how Superman has been a hero for just 24 hours and he did what he could. I understand that, I don't blame him, I blame the writer and the director for the bad choices they have done. I hope that some kind of extended cut is released for the bluray to fix some of these flaws, because the movie has a lot of potential to be great, and the sequels could be even better.

Best written piece on the negative of the movie and how, with very little tweaks, the movie could have been an instant classic...

It all boils down to 'believability' and the Jonathan's death is totally unbelievable... it's the stupidest part of the film if you asked me and anyone who buys into the logic of goyer's writing is well.. :doh:

As for the majority of the problem with the film, just need better editing of each of the scenes... prob won't add too much effort to it.. a bit more smiles for superman, a bit more setup for each action scenes/emotional scenes, a bit more interation between supes/lois to lock in their relationships so the kiss at the end is believable.. etc...

Again, it's disappointing to me (as a superman fan and want it to succeed as much as possible) to see (in hindsight that is, so, i get it, it could be just purely mistakes), that this movie can go from an 7-8 to a 10... (personally i gave it a 9/10 because i still loved it.. but i also know the GA is lukewarm about it... )

That was a very powerful scene. It showed that Johnathan Kent was so convinced that Clark wasn't ready and convicted to the fact that his adopted son's identity should be kept a secret that he was willing to die instead of have Clark save him. That event was so powerful that it convinced news reporter, Lois Lane, to keep that same secret. It's really sad how people harp on the negatives of a particular scene instead of trying to understand what it was there for and what it meant to the characters in the film.
 
^^even mark Waid liked that scene.Personally, i liked that scene too.

Even though i liked the movie, i definitely got some issues with it.There are scenes in that movie that are dumb-like Supes killing zod- but that one scene with Jonathan isn't one of them IMO.
 
That was a very powerful scene. It showed that Johnathan Kent was so convinced that Clark wasn't ready and convicted to the fact that his adopted son's identity should be kept a secret that he was willing to die instead of have Clark save him. That event was so powerful that it convinced news reporter, Lois Lane, to keep that same secret. It's really sad how people harp on the negatives of a particular scene instead of trying to understand what it was there for and what it meant to the characters in the film.
:up: :up:
and also people gotta pay attention to the conversation they had in the car.
 
^^even mark Waid liked that scene.Personally, i liked that scene too.

Even though i liked the movie, i definitely got some issues with it.There are scenes in that movie that are dumb-like Supes killing zod- but that one scene with Jonathan isn't one of them IMO.

Superman's "no kill" policy had to start somewhere and in this particular universe, it stemmed from his killing someone of his own race. This is very similar to John Byrne's version of Superman, who executed a version of Zod, Faora, and Quex-Ul from another dimension (see Superman Vol 3, no. 22). The guilt he felt as the result of his actions made him banish himself from earth for a time, which led to his space adventures and where he met up with Mongul on Warworld (see the Superman: Exile story arc from the John Byrne era). It really seemed like (along with respecting canon and paying homage to Smallville) paid some homage to John Byrne's version of the character and his universe. I wonder if they consider doing something like "Superman: Exile" in a sequel film.?
 
Last edited:
Ok, let me explain...my problem with that scene was NOT the fact that superman killed Zod.I was okay with it.

The execution of that sc ene that was just dumb.He killed Zod because he was about to incinerate those people cowering in the corner, right? at least it seemed that way to me...so, waht, he couldn't just grabbed Zod and fly away somewhere else?
 
Ok, let me explain...my problem with that scene was NOT the fact that superman killed Zod.I was okay with it.

The execution of that sc ene that was just dumb.He killed Zod because he was about to incinerate those people cowering in the corner, right? at least it seemed that way to me...so, waht, he couldn't just grabbed Zod and fly away somewhere else?

Maybe he could have, or maybe not. One thing was for shure, though is that the battle would not stop until someone was dead, and Zod didn't care who he killed. Superman had obviously concluded that in his mind and killed Zod to stop the carnage.
 
Ok, let me explain...my problem with that scene was NOT the fact that superman killed Zod.I was okay with it.

The execution of that sc ene that was just dumb.He killed Zod because he was about to incinerate those people cowering in the corner, right? at least it seemed that way to me...so, waht, he couldn't just grabbed Zod and fly away somewhere else?
then, more mindless fighting and massive destruction, giving more rooms for the haters to complain till no end???

and most important, how to end the movie??? another phantom zone???
 
And i was okay with it...if the movie just show him grabbed Zod by his scrawny neck from that station, take him somewhere else, and THEN squeeze his neck until his eyes popped out for all i care.

The way that it went down in the movie was just dumb.He could've bashed Zod's head into the ground and then those people would've been saved.
 
Earlier this year I saw some movie and I swear for the life of me I just cannot remember the movie at all (getting older, what can I say, at almost 5 decades old now) and there was this line of dialogue that I've taken as a quote for myself. In my life I've set some pretty hard "rules" for myself, my own morals, guidelines, what have you, and I've never strayed from most of them but, when I heard this line in that movie (I really wish I could remember it now) I realized it was pretty powerful stuff.

As I keep reading about the big "Oh snap!" moment (pun intended) in MoS and how so many people have such big issues with it, this particular line of dialogue from that other movie just seems really relevant, at least to me, so here it is:

"Sometimes you have to break your own rules to get the job done."

For me, reading that line and understanding it and applying it to my own life has some pretty cool similarities to what's been going on with this whole "Superman doesn't kill/Yes he does/No he doesn't/Whatever" back and forth.

Think about how so many people absolutely and without any equivocation whatsoever will tell you they hate the thought of Superman killing anyone, ever, for any reason and then realize they're precisely the type of person that can't "break their own rules" by not allowing for the possibility that yes, Superman can, has, did, and may even kill again because the potential exists. But now that we've seen this iteration of Superman kill, and it's becoming more obvious that this really was a "suicide by cop" type situation where Zod had nothing to live for and wasn't capable of killing himself so Kal was forced into committing the act himself, we can now look at it as this was a time when Kal had to break his own rule and in doing so sets the tone for the rest of his existence.

After reading thousands upon thousands of posts and listening to a dozen or more podcasts, watching interviews and videos, etc I've just come to the conclusion that some folks just can't get out of ruts, they can't change their own rules, mindset, what have you. It's amazing that for how amazingly adaptable the human race actually is, sometimes change to any degree is tougher than anything else for some people.

Kal did what he had to do, and that's all I have to say about that (at least for this post). :D
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,307
Messages
22,082,986
Members
45,882
Latest member
Charles Xavier
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"