The Dark Knight What can kill TDK as a movie? Overestimating?

[Cinemaman]

Lets talk about this, because it is very important part of TDK's future success.

What we got from BB?

Great and excellent movie, probably the best superhero flick. That's right.

But the truth is that it's a bit overrated. Don't get me wrong, I love every second of this movie and it is one of my favorites.

But people really overrate it. And that's can probably hurt TDK.

If BB was great, than TDK should be even greater movie. That's what most of us think.

We overestimate TDK and this can turn out as a problem for the movie.

We should face this.

Yes, In Nolan We Trust and he has not made any bad movie yet. But don't we want too much from him?

TDK is just a movie, but we already see it as a masterpiece.

Of course, I don't have any worries about it's success, but I am just scared that fans will be disappointed, because they are expecting too much from it.

Just remember movies like POTC2, BR, The Matrix sequels and etc.

Yeah, I believe TDK will be some kind of next Aliens, T2, The Godfather II, Spidey 2 or X2 for BB.

But i just don't want people to overestimate it.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Unless it's better than the first one it'll feel really flat.

However, I think the quality of the film rides on how Dent is written and the actor's chemistry with Bale and Oldman.

 

[Miranda Fox]

TDK is just a movie, but we already see it as a masterpiece.

No offence, but I've seen the opposite - people have not shut up moaning about TDK since Ledger was cast. There also seems to be a major BB backlash all of a sudden - all these things could be hurtful to TDK.

All I really want from this film is for it to be good and I'm fairly confident Nolan can deliver that. He's never made a film I didn't like - quite the opposite. But I don't expect it will be quite as good as Begins.

 

[Ronny Shade]

I'm that BB backlash. I spent too much time on here and now I see all the problems with it. I apologize.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

TDK will not suck, there will be no downfall, unless they get a boy to play harvey dent in gyllenhaal, thats about it it

right now you have a director who has yet to make a moive that isn't considered fantastic, you replace a writter who has made some comic book friendly movies in Goyer, and you replace him with the co-writter of Memento and Insomnia, i'll take that

you make a bold casting desicion going with Joker, and you get a guy who physically will look very good, the debate on his acting is still out, he definatley isn't bad, but he's really only a couple strong movies deep if that, I believe he will be very good.

you keep all the parts that made BB such a hit, style, themes, Bale

it will be a very good movie, even if they cast the boy it will still be fine, just not as good as it could be if they cast anyone else up for the role of Dent, as Dent

 

[Miranda Fox]

I'm that BB backlash. I spent too much time on here and now I see all the problems with it. I apologize.

Some grovelling would be a appropriate too. Hmph.

Seriously, I don't have a problem with you at all . I nitpick BB myself. I'm just more bugged about people running around and saying how they hate Nolan. Maybe it's because I'm a fangirl of his from way back but c'mon...

 

[Ronny Shade]

Some grovelling would be a appropriate too. Hmph.

Seriously, I don't have a problem with you at all . I nitpick BB myself. I'm just more bugged about people running around and saying how they hate Nolan. Maybe it's because I'm a fangirl of his from way back but c'mon...

My upheaval sorta happened when I didn't like The Prestige. It made me pissy and worried, but I've gotten over it a bit. Mainly I think they don't think about Batman as much as I do, so they leave holes, but hey.



so...can I buy you a drink?

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Some grovelling would be a appropriate too. Hmph.

Seriously, I don't have a problem with you at all . I nitpick BB myself. I'm just more bugged about people running around and saying how they hate Nolan. Maybe it's because I'm a fangirl of his from way back but c'mon...

who in there right mind could hate Nolan?

i'm not terribley to impressed (i like it though i really do) with the prestige, but i still think Nolan did a very very good job with the direction of it

and of course BB rules, and Memento is stellar, so is Insomnia

 

[L0ngsh0t]

My upheaval sorta happened when I didn't like The Prestige. It made me pissy and worried, but I've gotten over it a bit. Mainly I think they don't think about Batman as much as I do, so they leave holes, but hey.



so...can I buy you a drink?

Shade my respect for you went up a notch, it takes balls to say you didn't like the prestige that much around these woods

i thought it was okay, it sure as hell doesn't make me worried about BB

 

[Miranda Fox]

who in there right mind could hate Nolan?

i'm not terribley to impressed (i like it though i really do) with the prestige, but i still think Nolan did a very very good job with the direction of it

and of course BB rules, and Memento is stellar, so is Insomnia

I could name several members of this board if you really want, but I'd rather not make it personal. It's their opinion and they are entitled to it. But trust me - there are some people who really do hate him and I don't get it either. If they want to hate his vision - fine. It's not a take that will jive with everyone. But why take it so personally?

But agreed - I love all of Nolan's films. The themes he explores really speak to me and the fact he saved my favourite film franchise is a big plus.

 

[Ronny Shade]

That is a big plus, isn't it. Sometimes I just wish Timm and Dini were behind it

 

[Shedhut]

since Begins didnt really live up to my expectations im careful to expect too much before i've acctually seen the film.

 

[Miranda Fox]

My upheaval sorta happened when I didn't like The Prestige. It made me pissy and worried, but I've gotten over it a bit. Mainly I think they don't think about Batman as much as I do, so they leave holes, but hey.



so...can I buy you a drink?

I haven't actually seen the Prestige yet.. FWIW, it does seem like a film that you either love or hate - like Sin City.

That is a big plus, isn't it. Sometimes I just wish Timm and Dini were behind it

Actually, I hope they do get a shot at writing a Batman film - I heard Dini did a script for a Batman Beyond film but it never went anywhere. That made me sad. Still, Jonah's a big fanboy, I'm not too worried about the script right now.

 

[El Payaso]

since Begins didnt really live up to my expectations im careful to expect too much before i've acctually seen the film.

Same here, so I think it's gonna be the opposite here: I'll be waiting for another BB and probably get something better.

 

[kenellard]

I could name several members of this board if you really want, but I'd rather not make it personal. It's their opinion and they are entitled to it. But trust me - there are some people who really do hate him and I don't get it either. If they want to hate his vision - fine. It's not a take that will jive with everyone. But why take it so personally?

But agreed - I love all of Nolan's films. The themes he explores really speak to me and the fact he saved my favourite film franchise is a big plus.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone personally attacking Nolan, there certainly has been a backlash with BB, but I see that as natural for any movie that was released to such a flood of fanboy/girl admiration. I personally have tried to like begins ever since I saw it, and I find there are far too many problems with it for me to enjoy it as a film, so I found it ludicrous that posters on here were declaring it "the best MOVIE ever" last year. Now I think there's more of an even division of fans, some who still love BB and some who've decided it wasn't as good as they first thought. I see that criticism as a good thing for TDK, I personally have much higher hopes for TDK than BB because I really want to like it, Nolan nearly had something great with BB, so I'm hoping he gets it this time. There are trolls on here that just trash begins and won't listen to any opinion that states otherewise, but it's a two way street.

 

[Miranda Fox]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone personally attacking Nolan, there certainly has been a backlash with BB, but I see that as natural for any movie that was released to such a flood of fanboy/girl admiration. I personally have tried to like begins ever since I saw it, and I find there are far too many problems with it for me to enjoy it as a film, so I found it ludicrous that posters on here were declaring it "the best MOVIE ever" last year. Now I think there's more of an even division of fans, some who still love BB and some who've decided it wasn't as good as they first thought. I see that criticism as a good thing for TDK, I personally have much higher hopes for TDK than BB because I really want to like it, Nolan nearly had something great with BB, so I'm hoping he gets it this time. There are trolls on here that just trash begins and won't listen to any opinion that states otherewise, but it's a two way street.

I won't argue with the last part and I'm probably just getting too worked up about the behaviour of a few but I've seen some comments that just really got to me recently. FWIW, I'm sorry you were disappointed by BB.

 

[The Kid]

Good thread... It WILL be overhyped like many films are and I believe it's because of studio interference on forums. Tim story posts here, the director of hulk 2 post here. So I'm starting to believe it's becoming completely impossible to get an mostly unbiased discussion of the movie going with people from the studio going to popular forums to praise their own movie. And maybe there's money in it too... Look at the vileone on the spidey boards. He'll insult anyone who doesn't think raimi's spidey is perfect.

As for me...My expectations are realistic. I don't know about everyone elses but I doubt people will overrate TDK unless they're paid to do it. It's a sequel and as such people actually have a realistic idea of what to expect. Nolan's style won't radically change. Bale's still batman. We should expect a good film.

Will it be ZOMG BEST BATMAN EVER EVER OMG GENIUS CHANGED MY LIFE IN PROFOUND WAYS!!! IT IMPREGNATED ME!!!111

I don't know. Maybe only if Joker is great. Everything's set up to make this the best batman movie ever.

 

[Cinemaman]

Well, everything now is looking freat.

I mean:

- Nolan came back

- Cast came back

- New screenwriter (Nolan's bro)

- Ledger is Joker

- A new movie's formula

- More faithfulness to comics

But I just don't want this movie to be bad, only because of overestimating by most of fans.

Anyway, if it is really great movie (and maybe better than BB), I will be very happy.

But just look at Casino Royale.

I doubt everyone was expecting it to be so great movie and now we see that almost everybody loves it.

 

[NolGoyHater]

who in there right mind could hate Nolan?

**raises hand**

ME.

Back on subject. Places like SHH and BOF and the rest have already started calling TDK a masterpeice. Thats one problem. Another problem, in recent months the backlash against BB. It was always overrated, and it's good that people are getting off their high horses and admitting it. So now, everyone is demanding that TDK live up to the illusiory perfection they had of BB and now go beyond perfection. IMPOSSIBLE. But there is yet other problems, bad casting and more liberties taken with the characters and origins of the "quintessential" Batman movie.
As if Ra's Al Ghul inadvertantly killing the Angelic Waynes and thus creating Batman wasn't liberty enough, it's now been put into writing from DAVID HACK GOYER's mouth that the Joker will go on trial and torch/burn/chemical spray Dent's face and turn him into Two-Face.
Another problem is there will be more crappy fight scenes because Nolan feels that Batman looks goofy beating up criminals. So close choppy fight scenes are more realistic. I don't know how many fights Nolan has been in, probably none, but fights are not choppy. They are almost surreal and slow moving. Not that I want slow-mo Matrix, god no!!! But visible and stylized. I thought he looked pretty cool in Batman89 pulling Nick back towards him on the rooftop, pretty cool when he was fighting Joker's thugs in the alley.

Cliffnotes: Nolan/Goyer are taking more liberties in the next movie. Meanwhile netfanboys are starting to realize BB wasn't perfect and demand that TDK live up the the perfection they hoped BB was.

 

[Boom]

Good thread, because I've been seeing the problem too. People are setting their expectations WAY too high WAY too early. It's going to come back and bite them in the ass if the movie isn't as good as Begins, which is a possibility.

 

[DV8]

I have pretty high expectations but I'm still not worried . . . I think Nolan and the actors involved have a good understanding of the characters, and I think they're approaching the appropriate source material from what we've heard . . . as far as BB, yeah of course its got problems . . . EVERY film has its problems . . . . but I'll tell you this, just about everytime I see that it's on, I fkn watch it!! every gottam time!! it's one of those movies for me . . . .

I saw Batman Begins in the theater twice, and the second time around I was kind of bored to be honest. I was a bit let down at how I didn't enjoy it the first time . . . but then as I watched it time and again after the DVD came out, it just really sunk in for me . . . . it's a winner

I think the only problem BB had was some of the pacing . . . . it's got some problems as a film . . . but as a BATMAN film, it's hands down the best overall IMO

 

[DeFett]

What can kill TDK? ...My unrealistic expectations

 

[El Payaso]

What can kill TDK? ...My unrealistic expectations

Everything about Nolan's Batman always includes that word and every variant of it. t:

 

[strider]

The only thing I can see ruining TDK is most of the people from here, BOF and over fourms where the real harcore fanboys are expecting to see the best Batman movie of all time. They are going to be some what dissapointed becuase some of the villains have been done before or are comic book favorites and Nolan is about having seriouse/realistic per say villains and plot. Im just expecting a good movie in general like BB was. Not really expecting for the Joker to re-invented and all that non sense. I just want a good movie how ever realistic, serious or fantasy it is.

 

[ang_hulk]

I totally under estimated dark knight so at the least this movie will be worth the ticket price but im betting itll be better then tdk....if thats possible