The Dark Knight What can kill TDK as a movie? Overestimating?

[kenellard]

Nolan will once again play it SAFE!! like he's always done. He truely has mastered the art of making GOOD movies, but never visionary or memorable ones. Give it a few years and bat-fans will cry from the rooftops about bringing Batman back to the Americans... Overall Britishness being the fallguy..

I agree and disagree with this statement, so to break it down: I agree Nolan totally played it safe, he's certainly better at bringing the human psyche to film in a very real way (memento!) than he did with begins, which, looking objectively at it, is mostly hokey psychobabble and contrived speeches about morality and revenge. But then again, he had to make an action movie too so we can't really blame him. though it really ticks me off when people gush about how deep and meaningful it all is, as a piece of psychological drama it is just so ridiculously thin it's not even funny. But as I say, he had to make a bat-movie first, and obviously try to bring his own sensibilities to that. So in effect what we end up with is a lukewarm drama/ok action movie. People seem to forget that Nolan was completely out of his element with BB, he is not an action movie director, and that showed with begins, so with TDK he should know the ropes a little better, having directed the prestige too, that would've helped him get an idea for set pieces, dramatic climactic scenes and the like.

As for your statement that he makes good but not memorable movies, I'll say that Batman Begins WAS NOT Nolans Batman, as many posters on here claim. Anyone who finds that incorrect should sit and watch memento or insomnia (two of those great films that have you saying "holy crap" to yourself as the credits roll), then just think about what Nolan, without the pressure to make a big summer blockbuster & "rescue" the batman franchise could have done. Imagine that, a true look at the Batman as we've never seen him, that would be amazing.

However the thing about begins is Nolan couldn't/didn't do anything all that different from previous films, ok so there's no nipples or neon and everyone is very serious and it's all so very realistic, but i feel that already begins' flaws and shortcomings mean that it (hopefully) will become the weakest of the trilogy, I for one found nothing memorable about it. Saying all that though, it's important to remember what Nolan is capable of, and now that he's safely out of the gate with Begins, I hope he'll really give us something to remember in 2008 and beyond

 

[Miranda Fox]

I agree and disagree with this statement, so to break it down: I agree Nolan totally played it safe, he's certainly better at bringing the human psyche to film in a very real way (memento!) than he did with begins, which, looking objectively at it, is mostly hokey psychobabble and contrived speeches about morality and revenge. But then again, he had to make an action movie too so we can't really blame him. though it really ticks me off when people gush about how deep and meaningful it all is, as a piece of psychological drama it is just so ridiculously thin it's not even funny. But as I say, he had to make a bat-movie first, and obviously try to bring his own sensibilities to that. So in effect what we end up with is a lukewarm drama/ok action movie. People seem to forget that Nolan was completely out of his element with BB, he is not an action movie director, and that showed with begins, so with TDK he should know the ropes a little better, having directed the prestige too, that would've helped him get an idea for set pieces, dramatic climactic scenes and the like.

As for your statement that he makes good but not memorable movies, I'll say that Batman Begins WAS NOT Nolans Batman, as many posters on here claim. Anyone who finds that incorrect should sit and watch memento or insomnia (two of those great films that have you saying "holy crap" to yourself as the credits roll), then just think about what Nolan, without the pressure to make a big summer blockbuster & "rescue" the batman franchise could have done. Imagine that, a true look at the Batman as we've never seen him, that would be amazing.

However the thing about begins is Nolan couldn't/didn't do anything all that different from previous films, ok so there's no nipples or neon and everyone is very serious and it's all so very realistic, but i feel that already begins' flaws and shortcomings mean that it (hopefully) will become the weakest of the trilogy, I for one found nothing memorable about it. Saying all that though, it's important to remember what Nolan is capable of, and now that he's safely out of the gate with Begins, I hope he'll really give us something to remember in 2008 and beyond

I really like Begins but you've made some interesting points here - I was watching it yesterday and thinking how the heavy-handed fear message didn't seem like Nolan to me - he's much more subtle than that and usually sticks to the 'show, don't tell' way, which is the golden rule of good writing. It never ruined the film for me, but it's a noticable flaw.

I also agree that Nolan's Batman hasn't really been seen, not entirely anyway. He made some massive improvements to Goyer's script (which, having read it, I'm sort of puzzled fans liked it so much when it leaked.) Sort of how X-Men 2 was the X-Men film Singer really wanted to make after he had proven himself with the first.

But in the end, all I want is a good film, and Nolan has not disappointed me yet.

 

[Cinemaman]

Great.



More than great. Fantastic.



We'll see how it goes.



Excuse me????



Huh again????

As I remember Nolan mentioned in one of his interviews that this movie will be very different from BB and it will probably have a new formula (or structre).

1. Joker's creator will be involved in making the movie
2. Nolan and Ledger are trying to put there more from original Batman comics (especially Joker's stuff)

So i think it's enough to explain my thoughts.

 

[Cinemaman]

What can kill TDK??? Hmmmmmmm. I think that overzealous fanboys like cinenaman who predicts false BO numbers which rarely to never comes true(Example Superman Returns). That can kill TDK.

I think you should really look at yourself, moron

 

[Cinemaman]

People already see TDK as a masterpiece?

What people are those? ones from a mental asylum?

The film is not out yet.

I do have high hopes for the film but I think TDK will live up to expectations.
No point in worrying about how good it might or might not be.
The film will definitely be good and further develop the character of Batman that we saw in BB while also increasing the pacing and hopefully being even more creepy and sinister.

That’s what I want from it anyway, and all signs point towards these things happening.
Obviously Joker is the central enemy or most celebrated foe of all of Batman’s and I think if they do Joker in the style of his first appearances as talked about in the ‘Grim’ thread I don’t think they can go wrong.

Ledger is a good choice for me, he can act but I have never seen him do anything dark.
Nolan would not have picked him tho unless he has already pulled of the Joker in a screen test.
This image below shows that he will look the part also.

Watch CANDY movie and tell me what you think. It was his one of the darkest movies.

Besides, he is an actor, so he should be able to do whatever the role needs to be done.

 

[Cinemaman]

I agree and disagree with this statement, so to break it down: I agree Nolan totally played it safe, he's certainly better at bringing the human psyche to film in a very real way (memento!) than he did with begins, which, looking objectively at it, is mostly hokey psychobabble and contrived speeches about morality and revenge. But then again, he had to make an action movie too so we can't really blame him. though it really ticks me off when people gush about how deep and meaningful it all is, as a piece of psychological drama it is just so ridiculously thin it's not even funny. But as I say, he had to make a bat-movie first, and obviously try to bring his own sensibilities to that. So in effect what we end up with is a lukewarm drama/ok action movie. People seem to forget that Nolan was completely out of his element with BB, he is not an action movie director, and that showed with begins, so with TDK he should know the ropes a little better, having directed the prestige too, that would've helped him get an idea for set pieces, dramatic climactic scenes and the like.

As for your statement that he makes good but not memorable movies, I'll say that Batman Begins WAS NOT Nolans Batman, as many posters on here claim. Anyone who finds that incorrect should sit and watch memento or insomnia (two of those great films that have you saying "holy crap" to yourself as the credits roll), then just think about what Nolan, without the pressure to make a big summer blockbuster & "rescue" the batman franchise could have done. Imagine that, a true look at the Batman as we've never seen him, that would be amazing.

However the thing about begins is Nolan couldn't/didn't do anything all that different from previous films, ok so there's no nipples or neon and everyone is very serious and it's all so very realistic, but i feel that already begins' flaws and shortcomings mean that it (hopefully) will become the weakest of the trilogy, I for one found nothing memorable about it. Saying all that though, it's important to remember what Nolan is capable of, and now that he's safely out of the gate with Begins, I hope he'll really give us something to remember in 2008 and beyond

Don't know about you, but as for me, I clearly remember every scene of BB and it is one of the reasons why I loved this movie so much.

So saying BB was ummemorable is just like saying Titanic was a flop.

 

[El Payaso]

As I remember Nolan mentioned in one of his interviews that this movie will be very different from BB and it will probably have a new formula (or structre).

In every single interview from directors I've heard the same thing 'This is something you have never seen before.'

That and 'We couldn't have done this ten years ago.'

1. Joker's creator will be involved in making the movie.

Batman creator was involved in B89. If not in every movie from the old franchise. We all know it's more like an honorific title.

2. Nolan and Ledger are trying to put there more from original Batman comics (especially Joker's stuff)

More? More than what?

 

[kenellard]

Don't know about you, but as for me, I clearly remember every scene of BB and it is one of the reasons why I loved this movie so much.

So saying BB was ummemorable is just like saying Titanic was a flop.

Do you realise that statement is incorrect? not in the "My opinion means more than yours" sense, but in the sense that it is a fact that Titanic was not a flop, whereas it is not a fact that Batman Begins was memorable. Faulty arguments seem to be your forté cinemaman

 

[Cinemaman]

In every single interview from directors I've heard the same thing 'This is something you have never seen before.'

That and 'We couldn't have done this ten years ago.'



Batman creator was involved in B89. If not in every movie from the old franchise. We all know it's more like an honorific title.



More? More than what?

Look, I judge everything from what I read. If you don't want to agree with me, fine.

And stop trying to find anything in my posts what would start a new argument.

 

[Cinemaman]

Do you realise that statement is incorrect? not in the "My opinion means more than yours" sense, but in the sense that it is a fact that Titanic was not a flop, whereas it is not a fact that Batman Begins was memorable. Faulty arguments seem to be your forté cinemaman

You say that BB was unmemorable, right? But it's not true, because people who saw it can't for get it.

You can just ask somebody "Hey, did you watch BB" and if he saw it, he will answer "yes".

So he remembers some scenes or moments from this movie, what makes it memorable.

Huh? Faulty arguments? What's with you?

 

[kenellard]

You say that BB was unmemorable, right? But it's not true, because people who saw it can't for get it.

You can just ask somebody "Hey, did you watch BB" and if he saw it, he will answer "yes".

So he remembers some scenes or moments from this movie, what makes it memorable.

Huh? Faulty arguments? What's with you?

oh my god, can you actually see the difference between remembering you saw a film and reguarding a film as memorable? I honestly thought I explained what I meant very plainly in my last post

 

[Cinemaman]

oh my god, can you actually see the difference between remembering you saw a film and reguarding a film as memorable? I honestly thought I explained what I meant very plainly in my last post

Look, you said the movie was unmemorable. But this doesn't mean it was unmemorable for everybody, right?

Memento and Insomnia were great movies, but this doesn't mean that BB was unmemorable.

It is also great as a superhero movie. Nolan returned the whole franchise and made it to look differnet and more realistic.

It's still his movie and he did a great job.

This is simple. Yeah, of course BB as any another movie had some flaws, but it wasn't unmemerable.

I don't know about you, but I could call only movies like FF or Daredevil as unmemorable movies, because they were really bad films. It was even hard to watch them.

So there is some difference.

 

[El Payaso]

Look, I judge everything from what I read. If you don't want to agree with me, fine.

And stop trying to find anything in my posts what would start a new argument.

I, for sure, won't stop discussing in a discussion forum. That's for granted.

I read things too. Then I concede there are facts too beyond letters on a paper.

 

[strider]

oh my god, can you actually see the difference between remembering you saw a film and reguarding a film as memorable? I honestly thought I explained what I meant very plainly in my last post

Most of my friends clearly remember something about BB as do I...I think what you're dissapointed in is that it wasnt enough Batman fantasy full of stupid villains, stupid plot, and tons of action with Batman fighting all ninja style..It was a good movie, NOT a super awesome comic book movie. Most people/critics remember this movie for being a good/decent movie in general. If you are thinking that Nolan will change his personal style and give you a more "memerable" movie then you are going to be extremely dissapointed. BB is considered to be one of Nolan's best works. Yes he might get a little better at making action movies but he will probably never change his style for fanboys. Ture artists dont.

 

[kenellard]

Most of my friends clearly remember something about BB as do I...I think what you're dissapointed in is that it wasnt enough Batman fantasy full of stupid villains, stupid plot, and tons of action with Batman fighting all ninja style..It was a good movie, NOT a super awesome comic book movie. Most people/critics remember this movie for being a good/decent movie in general. If you are thinking that Nolan will change his personal style and give you a more "memerable" movie then you are going to be extremely dissapointed. BB is considered to be one of Nolan's best works. Yes he might get a little better at making action movies but he will probably never change his style for fanboys. Ture artists dont.

why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth? You obviously like Begins, that's absolutely fine by me, but you don't do yourself any favours by insinuating that I want "stupid villains, stupid plot" in a bat-movie. I'm not a huge fan of begins, but I won't ever bash it by simply saying it's "stupid", that's your word. I do want a bat-movie with impressive fight scenes and interesting conflicts between characters, because first and foremost I'm a huge movie-buff, I love cinema, and in my opinion Begins is nowhere near the level of Insomnia and Memento. I don't know which critics or people honestly think Batman begins is a better than these films, but I'd love to hear their reasons why. If you read my posts correctly you'd see that I said begins wasn't a totally nolan film, it was hamstringed by pressures from both the public and the WB, I actually made the point that a truly "nolan" bat-film could've been amazing, and unfortunately for all of us begins wasn't

 

[strider]

why do you feel the need to put words in my mouth? You obviously like Begins, that's absolutely fine by me, but you don't do yourself any favours by insinuating that I want "stupid villains, stupid plot" in a bat-movie. I'm not a huge fan of begins, but I won't ever bash it by simply saying it's "stupid", that's your word. I do want a bat-movie with impressive fight scenes and interesting conflicts between characters, because first and foremost I'm a huge movie-buff, I love cinema, and in my opinion Begins is nowhere near the level of Insomnia and Memento. I don't know which critics or people honestly think Batman begins is a better than these films, but I'd love to hear their reasons why. If you read my posts correctly you'd see that I said begins wasn't a totally nolan film, it was hamstringed by pressures from both the public and the WB, I actually made the point that a truly "nolan" bat-film could've been amazing, and unfortunately for all of us begins wasn't

You may be right to a certain point....but yes it is a Nolan film. I never said that BB was better than Memento and Insomnia. Like I said before if you are expecting to see an action packed movie with all of the above then please do not watch TDK. Nolan isnt going to change his way of making movies simply because he's getting better at making action movies because You think BB wasnt a good enough action film for you. Just wait for an american director or for the next director to make Batman movies to hopefully get what you want. GET OVER IT.

 

[Crooklyn]

Err...what??

From what I can gather, his use of "true Nolan film" implies LESS action, more character-driven stuff. Where did you get the idea of a mindless blockbuster action flick from any of his posts?

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Yeah I just don't think the guy liked the movie, and is walking into the wolves den, I loved the movie and disagree with most of what he is saying, but hell he can sure have his own opinion, and if he finds something he wants to argue to stand up for what he believes then go for it

and btw, Nolan was actually born in Chicago, or raised in Chicago one of the two, and I would also be really surprised to find out that more then not blockbuster directors are americans

 

[Cinemaman]

Yeah I just don't think the guy liked the movie, and is walking into the wolves den, I loved the movie and disagree with most of what he is saying, but hell he can sure have his own opinion, and if he finds something he wants to argue to stand up for what he believes then go for it

and btw, Nolan was actually born in Chicago, or raised in Chicago one of the two, and I would also be really surprised to find out that more then not blockbuster directors are americans

Agreed, but still saying BB was unmemorable is dumb.

 

[kenellard]

Agreed, but still saying BB was unmemorable is dumb.

so you agree I can have my own opinion, yet you say it's "dumb"? Cinemaman, seriously, work on expanding your vocabulary past lame derogatory remarks, calling other posters "morons" and the like isn't gonna bolster your own opinions, play nice kiddo

 

[Cinemaman]

so you agree I can have my own opinion, yet you say it's "dumb"? Cinemaman, seriously, work on expanding your vocabulary past lame derogatory remarks, calling other posters "morons" and the like isn't gonna bolster your own opinions, play nice kiddo

Huh?

1. explode7 is my old enemy. From that day, when we both started posting we hated each other. So that shouldn't matter you.

2. It was your opinion, right? But you said that BB had been unwatchable like a fact, not like IMO.

You should look at yourself, dude.

 

[kenellard]

You may be right to a certain point....but yes it is a Nolan film. I never said that BB was better than Memento and Insomnia. Like I said before if you are expecting to see an action packed movie with all of the above then please do not watch TDK. Nolan isnt going to change his way of making movies simply because he's getting better at making action movies because You think BB wasnt a good enough action film for you. Just wait for an american director or for the next director to make Batman movies to hopefully get what you want. GET OVER IT.

Why the heck not? It's a BATMAN MOVIE!

And I don't think he'll "change his way of making movies" for me, I think he'll make a better action movie with TDK because he's a relatively young director making only his second big budget action movie. And before you jump on me about that, just remember that Begins wasn't some deep psychological drama, it WAS a pg-13 summer blockbuster action movie, one that tried to move away from the conventions of that label, which is a good thing. I would've loved to see a small "nolanesque" drama about the batman, as I've repeadedly said, so I do need to "get over it" as you say, because begins wasn't that, and TDK won't be either, They're big-money, summer box-office Movies from the WB. so I say why not have some great looking action scenes and well-shot set pieces?

 

[kenellard]

Huh?

1. explode7 is my old enemy. From that day, when we both started posting we hated each other. So that shouldn't matter you.

2. It was your opinion, right? But you said that BB had been unwatchable like a fact, not like IMO.

You should look at yourself, dude.

1. oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise this board was located in ancient Japan t:

2. I haven't said it was unwatchable, I did say that for me it wasn't memorable; "I for one found nothing memorable about it". That's an opinion.

I look pretty good man, pretty good

 

[Cinemaman]

1. oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise this board was located in ancient Japan t:

2. I haven't said it was unwatchable, I did say that for me it wasn't memorable; "I for one found nothing memorable about it". That's an opinion.

I look pretty good man, pretty good

t:

Oh ok, then I will stop arguing about this.

 

[Cinemaman]

Am I really only one who liked the action in BB?