The Amazing Spider-Man What can Spider-Man 4 learn from Iron Man?

[DACMAN]

Why was Iron Man so amazing? How is it that it so easily stayed true to the comic and was amazing? What was it about the Iron Man movie that made it flow so well? The answer is right here.

Comic book writers Mark Millar, Brian Bendis, Joe Quesada, Tom Brevoort, Axel Alonzo and Ralph Macchio were commissioned by Jon Favreau to give advice on the script.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371746/trivia

Raimi needs to learn from this. He needs to stop and let some of the real writers show him how it's done. At least then Spidey would have a few quips.

 

[The Jester]

It's not really too much complaining, just seems like advice. I totally like the idea of great spider-man writers going over the movie script. Put aside whichever of the previous movies was the best and let's just hope this one sets the new standard.

 

[DACMAN]

It's not really too much complaining, just seems like advice. I totally like the idea of great spider-man writers going over the movie script. Put aside whichever of the previous movies was the best and let's just hope this new one sets the new standard.

If they'd let Bendis and Millar sit down with the script and go to town I think they'd end up with an amazing film. It blows me away that they don't utilise those guys. Who knows these characters better than the writers at Marvel?

 

[Piz]

I agree DACMAN Taking advice from the CB writers wouldn't do anything but benefit the film, ultimately pleasing more of the comic book readers. Those who haven't read the comics wouldn't even know the difference so it's a win-win.

 

[The Jester]

If Kingpin was able to be used, I honestly believe Ultimate Spider-man Vol.2 would've been a great foundation for a future movie, but of course that wouldn't necessarily work now with Sandman being the killer.

 

[DACrowe]

Heh. I liked Iron Man, but amazing? It was pretty much beat-for-beat Spider-Man 1 (or Superman: the Movie) with a middle aged hero--and it wasn't as good.

Iron Man was good, but it was cookie-cutter formula. Personally, I'd like to see Spidey break formula as it has been beholden to it for three pictures. TDK is the first mainstream superhero movie to completely disregard formula and I'd like Spidey to learn by that example (though not copy TDK, if that makes sense). To thine ownself be true.

Don't ape an origin movie that is an inferior riff or variation on your first film. Trust me when we reach IM3 fans will be *****ing about Downey. Right now because he is in Sherlock Holmes and talks of Lestat they are already saying he is "spread too thin" and there are murmors of discontent. As entertaining and original as his performance was in IM1 (it made the picture), people are starting to realize that he played Downey more than Stark. Which I am completely fine with, but Tropic Thunder was his better performance last year, but he isn't quite where he was when he did Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Good Night Goodluck, Wonder Boys or Chaplin.

In short, fans will turn on Downey and IM by the third film. Spidey went through that cycle, time to grow.

 

[DACrowe]

Heh. I liked Iron Man, but amazing? It was pretty much beat-for-beat Spider-Man 1 (or Superman: the Movie) with a middle aged hero--and it wasn't as good.

Iron Man was good, but it was cookie-cutter formula. Personally, I'd like to see Spidey break formula as it has been beholden to it for three pictures. TDK is the first mainstream superhero movie to completely disregard formula and I'd like Spidey to learn by that example (though not copy TDK, if that makes sense). To thine ownself be true.

Don't ape an origin movie that is an inferior riff or variation on your first film. Trust me when we reach IM3 fans will be *****ing about Downey. Right now because he is in Sherlock Holmes and talks of Lestat they are already saying he is "spread too thin" and there are murmors of discontent. As entertaining and original as his performance was in IM1 (it made the picture), people are starting to realize that he played Downey more than Stark. Which I am completely fine with, but Tropic Thunder was his better performance last year, but he isn't quite where he was when he did Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Good Night Goodluck, Wonder Boys or Chaplin.

In short, fans will turn on Downey and IM by the third film. Spidey went through that cycle, time to grow.

 

[spider-neil]

imho SM2 is better than iron man and as DAcrowe says beat for beat with SM1

 

[david icke]

I've always thought Iron-Man owed a lot to Batman Begins.
Starts off with the flashback type opening.
The first appearance with the Mk1 armour starts off very like the scne with Batman at the docks, coming out of the shadows, bad guys not knowing what is happening, all running away.
Has the plot with him going up against the former mentor.
Shows every single last detail of him developing his methods.

Yeah, it would be great to have some comicbook writers have their input on Spidey movies, as long as it didn't mean too many cooks spoiling the broth kind of thing.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

imho SM2 is better than iron man and as DAcrowe says beat for beat with SM1

By a mile...better villain,a LOT more character development for the supporting characters and every movie that starts with a guy making missiles and getting out with a suit doesn't deserve to be called great.

I don't care if it was in the comic book,there's suspend your belief and then there's Iron Man's transformation.

Iron Man is a mash-up between Batman Begins and SP1,the thing that sold it was Downey's performance,without it it's a mediocre movie.

 

[spider-neil]

By a mile...better villain,a LOT more character development for the supporting characters and every movie that starts with a guy making missiles and getting out with a suit doesn't deserve to be called great.

I don't care if it was in the comic book,there's suspend your belief and then there's Iron Man's transformation.

Iron Man is a mash-up between Batman Begins and SP1,the thing that sold it was Downey's performance,without it it's a mediocre movie.

also what exactly were the guards watching when tony was building the suit? worst. guards. evar.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

Tony: Loosen up a bit. Make jokes, have fun. I was IN A CAVE for 9 months and I still found time for humor.

Peter: BUT BUT! MARY JANE!

Tony: ANNNDD that has got to stop! Stop being such an Amazing Wuss ... get it? Cuz your're like... AMAZING SPIDER-MAN but your also a wuss... ah forget it...

 

[Oscorp]

I think what makes Iron Man a better movie than Spider-Man 2 and 3 for me (I like Spider-Man 1 more), is because the movie Iron Man actually creates lots of emotions for the protagonist, and the rest of the characters, among the audience in a way those recent Spidey movies don't imo. You know that you SHOULD dislike Tony Stark because of his playboy behaviour and such, but yet you can't help it but really like him because of his special persona, and we know that inside that rich man's arrogant outside, there's something that fights for good. The rest of the characters are also better written than the ones in the Spider-Man franchise. Penny is actually a very adorable and likeable woman, compared to the selfish and annoying Mary Jane from the Spider-Man movies. The antagonist is actually very evil, and feels like a VILLAIN (the reason why I don't like Spider-Man 2 as much as alot of others do, is because they watered Doc Ock down so much it destroyed the whole movie for me).

Also, while the Spider-Man movies try to be funny at times (and it worked at some points), it comes off more as cheesy than anything else. The Iron Man movie actually delivers some very funny moments, but still feels more mature than Spider-Man.

Not to forget, the actors are much better in Iron Man than in the Spider-Man movies imo. Sure, the antagonists have been played GREAT and sometimes even almost perfect, but Tobey and Kirsten are just horrible in alot of important moments. RDJ and that actress for Penny (have forgotten her name) are miles better. And the actor for Iron Monger really delivers as a powerful, evil man, so there are no bad acting moments in Iron Man imo, something Spider-Man has a big amount of unfortunately.

All of these points are of course my opinion and I don't claim them as facts.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

I think what makes Iron Man a better movie than Spider-Man 2 and 3 for me (I like Spider-Man 1 more), is because the movie Iron Man actually creates lots of emotions for the protagonist, and the rest of the characters, among the audience in a way those recent Spidey movies don't imo. You know that you SHOULD dislike Tony Stark because of his playboy behaviour and such, but yet you can't help it but really like him because of his special persona, and we know that inside that rich man's arrogant outside, there's something that fights for good. The rest of the characters are also better written than the ones in the Spider-Man franchise. Penny is actually a very adorable and likeable woman, compared to the selfish and annoying Mary Jane from the Spider-Man movies. The antagonist is actually very evil, and feels like a VILLAIN (the reason why I don't like Spider-Man 2 as much as alot of others do, is because they watered Doc Ock down so much it destroyed the whole movie for me).

Also, while the Spider-Man movies try to be funny at times (and it worked at some points), it comes off more as cheesy than anything else. The Iron Man movie actually delivers some very funny moments, but still feels more mature than Spider-Man.

Not to forget, the actors are much better in Iron Man than in the Spider-Man movies imo. Sure, the antagonists have been played GREAT and sometimes even almost perfect, but Tobey and Kirsten are just horrible in alot of important moments. RDJ and that actress for Penny (have forgotten her name) are miles better. And the actor for Iron Monger really delivers as a powerful, evil man, so there are no bad acting moments in Iron Man imo, something Spider-Man has a big amount of unfortunately.

All of these points are of course my opinion and I don't claim them as facts.

Yes,because one dimensional villains that turn on their partner just like that are better than fully developed with an actual reason for doing what they do.

Iron Man had one of the most anti-climactic villains i can remember.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

And btw Iron Man is more emotional??

Yeah,i know it's your opinion but at least don't brush some stuff and then add weight to some others like that...

There's so much at stake in SP2 as far as every character is concerned:

Harry,his father got killed and his best friend makes money out of that person,later in the film he goes through a shock when he finds out that those two people are the same person.

Aunt May,lost her husband,her house but still finds strenght to retain her dignity.

M.J who obviously loves Peter but is confused as to why he acts like he does and goes after a decent guy who she likes only on the surface...but it's all a farce which is beautifully showed in the ''lower your head'' scene in which she realizes she can't be with the wrong person for the rest of her life.

Doc Ock,lost his dream,his wife,the two most important things in his life and the delusion that his dream can be saved propels him throughout the movie.

Peter,he loves M.J but can't be with her because of his selflessness,his conscience weights down on him because he feels responsible for Uncle Ben's death,then you have the whole ''i don't want to be Spider-Man'' theme...

It's such a rich movie...full fleshed characters and themes.

Iron Man has a bunch of cool characters in it that don't add absolutely anything to the movie but ''cool''...the transformation feels way to forced,the building of the suit is ridiculous and the good guy-bad guy theme is way too black and white from the second act onwards.I really don't see how can you be more impressed with Jeff Bridges performance which contains one facial impression in the whole movie.

 

[chaseter]

How is this different than "TDK was the best movie ever and all superhero movies should be like it"?

Iron Man was good. Spider-Man 1 was good. They are both origin stories. So, I don't see what Iron Man has to do with SM4.

We have a Raimi complain thread. Why do you continue to make so many Dac???

 

[DACrowe]

Iron Man was a good film. I prefer BB and SM1 (and yes SM2, but that is one of the standouts of the genre IM), in terms of origin films. But I don't know why SM4 should be like a movie that just followed its formula that it has used for the last three films.

 

[chaseter]

Spiderman shuld B moar like TDK. OMFG was Awesomezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[david icke]

Spiderman shuld B moar like TDK. OMFG was Awesomezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

How is this different from your "How is this different.." post?

I think the point the OP was making in a roundabout way was why doesn't the Spidey production team get some input from comicbook writers like Iron-Man did?
No matter what anyone thinks of the movie, it probably benefited from this approach.

 

[venom892]

Mark Miller maybe cause he had a good 12 issue run on Spidey.Bendis not really.I don't like his approach to 616 spidey.

 

[Spider-Kid]

What can Spider-Man 4 learn from Iron Man?


Everything.

 

[chaseter]

How is this different from your "How is this different.." post?

I think the point the OP was making in a roundabout way was why doesn't the Spidey production team get some input from comicbook writers like Iron-Man did?
No matter what anyone thinks of the movie, it probably benefited from this approach.

If you couldn't determine from my spelling that it was a pun...then If you couldn't make the connection between this thread and every thread about how TDK was amazing and how everything should be like TDK then Do you require all puns and sarcasm to be explained in depth to you? I will be happy to oblige this request for you in the future.

I think the OP was trying to make another thread about how much he dislikes Raimi and how much he thinks SM4 will suck no matter what happens.

Iron Man is not Spider-Man. Batman is not Spider-Man. Spider-Man is Spider-Man. The man who brought Spider-Man to life, Raimi, has made a good film, and excellent film, and a mediocre film. He has realized and admitted his mistakes. So, if he goes back to the way he did SM1 and SM2, then he doesn't need to learn a lesson from the writing staff of Iron Man or take a page from Chiristopher Nolan's direction. They are all good movies in their own right.

 

[DACMAN]

How is this different than "TDK was the best movie ever and all superhero movies should be like it"?

Iron Man was good. Spider-Man 1 was good. They are both origin stories. So, I don't see what Iron Man has to do with SM4.

We have a Raimi complain thread. Why do you continue to make so many Dac???

I'm pointing out that the director of Iron Man was smart enough to use comic book writers while writing the script for Iron Man. That's all. This is not a Raimi complain thread at all.

 

[DACMAN]

Mark Miller maybe cause he had a good 12 issue run on Spidey.Bendis not really.I don't like his approach to 616 spidey.

But his Ultimate may be the best version of Spidey ever. That's right, I said ever.

 

[chaseter]

I'm pointing out that the director of Iron Man was smart enough to use comic book writers while writing the script for Iron Man. That's all. This is not a Raimi complain thread at all.

It isn't happening and it isn't going to happen so why point it out They didn't get comic writers for Spider-Man 2 or Spider-man 1. Sorry but Iron Monger was a lame villain and the final battle was hugely anti climactic. So, if you want that to happen in SM4 then more power to you

Iron Man was good yes. It was heralded as a great comic book film. Spider-Man 1 was good and it was heralded as a great comic book film.


This belongs in "What Did Raimi do Wrong" thread. Your opinion is that he didn't use comic book writers and he should have.