The Dark Knight What if Joker was lying about the boat detonators

[Optimus_Prime_]

My friend brought up a good point: After fibbing to Batman about the locations of Dent and Dawes, how do we know the passengers of the boat weren't given their own detonators and told it was for the other boat.

 

[frodawgg]

i guess we'll never know, will we?

 

[SuperFerret]

Not only will we never know, it'll also never matter.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

to honest… that doesn’t really sound like it would fit into his plan…
His way of thinking (tho, he is hardly “a man of his word” as he proved with the switching of Dent and Dawes) but, he was honest about where they were… as it was part of his plan

having the people who were willing to blow up the other boat, actually blow themselves up, wouldn’t really make sense for him… his plan was to prove that people deep down inside were just as messed up as him… he would want to reward those who were like him, not punish them

just my take on it, I guess

 

[ALittlePush]

to honest… that doesn’t really sound like it would fit into his plan…
His way of thinking (tho, he is hardly “a man of his word” as he proved with the switching of Dent and Dawes) but, he was honest about where they were… as it was part of his plan

having the people who were willing to blow up the other boat, actually blow themselves up, wouldn’t really make sense for him… his plan was to prove that people deep down inside were just as messed up as him… he would want to reward those who were like him, not punish them

just my take on it, I guess

I think the Joker would find it incredibly funny to switch the detonators for the boats. Batman listened in to the conversation about the detonators and as far as he was aware each boat had the other boat's detonator. Had the prisoners pushed their button and their boat had blown up, Batman would have thought the civilians had pushed the button and Batman's trust in human morality would have gone out the window. Would the citizens of Gotham grieve over a boat of criminals? I doubt it, but it would raise the interesting question over whether one human life is equal to that of another. Does a five year old girl on the civillian boat have more of a right to live than a convicted drug dealer on the criminal boat? It's a slippery slope, where does the line stop when deciding who deserves to live and who doesn't. Should a prostitute die because what she does is considered morally wrong and her life is perceived as not good? Should an old lady die if it saves the life of a young child? A lot of moral queestions are raised. Also, what would have happened if the civilians had pushed their button and blown up their own boat? Would the criminals be blamed even though they were innocent?

It's an interesting question.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Good question, but I think he told the truth about who had who's detonator. He'd want the people responsible to live with their guilt, rather than die thinking they were going to kill the others.

 

[Visceral]

I think it matters that we will never know, its part of the genius that is the joker.

 

[weezerspider]

1. he switches Rachel and Dent
2. he switches the Doctors and hostages

so I'd say based on previous behavior, They DID have the detonators to their own boat and I have assumed that for awhile

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Good question, but I think he told the truth about who had who's detonator. He'd want the people responsible to live with their guilt, rather than die thinking they were going to kill the others.

He did have this "Karma's a b*tch" outlook though. Promising one thing and then doing another, frequently just to f*** with whomever he could. I mean first he wants money, then he burns it, and kills all his associates just because. It would still be funny if the citizens decided to blow up the inmates, and accidentally killed themselves. Then when the inmates got to shore (presuming Joker doesn't kill them too), everyone thinks the city has gone mad - or the same would work vice versa. I believe the people on shore were aware of "the game". It also falls in line with his point about chaos and plans. You're planning to detonate the other ship and save yourselves, but in your selfish desire to protect your own life you actually end it. Hahahahahaha. So to speak.

 

[ALittlePush]

He did have this "Karma's a b*tch" outlook though. Promising one thing and then doing another, frequently just to f*** with whomever he could. I mean first he wants money, then he burns it, and kills all his associates just because. It would still be funny if the citizens decided to blow up the inmates, and accidentally killed themselves. Then when the inmates got to shore (presuming Joker doesn't kill them too), everyone thinks the city has gone mad - or the same would work vice versa. I believe the people on shore were aware of "the game". It also falls in line with his point about chaos and plans. You're planning to detonate the other ship and save yourselves, but in your selfish desire to protect your own life you actually end it. Hahahahahaha. So to speak.

I don't think anyone else would be aware of the detonators switching. Joker wanted to corrupt people, to bring them down to his level, so to speak. If the civilians blew themselves up trying to blow up the other boat, I think Joker would be satisfied that their last act before their death was that of attempted murder.

As to whether or not he did actually switch the detonators, as people have said in this thread, we'll never know. I wouldn't put it past him to have done so though.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well at least in the minds of the victims their last act would be murder, not attempted murder. And they would've murdered themselves.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

My friend brought up a good point: After fibbing to Batman about the locations of Dent and Dawes, how do we know the passengers of the boat weren't given their own detonators and told it was for the other boat.

I actually assumed that was what was going to happen.

to honest… that doesn’t really sound like it would fit into his plan…
His way of thinking (tho, he is hardly “a man of his word” as he proved with the switching of Dent and Dawes) but, he was honest about where they were… as it was part of his plan

having the people who were willing to blow up the other boat, actually blow themselves up, wouldn’t really make sense for him… his plan was to prove that people deep down inside were just as messed up as him… he would want to reward those who were like him, not punish them

just my take on it, I guess

I see what your saying, but I'm not sure I agree with all of it.

Yes, he wanted to show that people, in general, were like him, but I dont think he wanted to reward anyone.

And I think having them blow themselfs up fits his plan and personality perfectly.

If it happened, he would prove that everyone is as messed uip as he is, and then the joke being that they were never in danger from the other boat.

The only danger was themselfs.

That their desiree to live, lead to their deaths.

 

[Fudgie]

He did have this "Karma's a b*tch" outlook though. Promising one thing and then doing another, frequently just to f*** with whomever he could. I mean first he wants money, then he burns it, and kills all his associates just because. It would still be funny if the citizens decided to blow up the inmates, and accidentally killed themselves. Then when the inmates got to shore (presuming Joker doesn't kill them too), everyone thinks the city has gone mad - or the same would work vice versa. I believe the people on shore were aware of "the game". It also falls in line with his point about chaos and plans. You're planning to detonate the other ship and save yourselves, but in your selfish desire to protect your own life you actually end it. Hahahahahaha. So to speak.

Good one. I like the karma being a ***** idea.

 

[The Joker]

They were screwed whether he was lying or not. Either way they were going to get blown up.

 

[ManWhoLaughed]

Wow. This is actually something I'd never thought about before. As everyone's been saying, we'll never know for sure, but it definitely fits in with Joker's grand scheme of things.

 

[Ryan]

Never thought of that, but it would make perfect sense (if the joker ever made sense) for the joker to have pulled that on the passengers.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

It is hard to say. I always thought that he was lying in that scene, but it also makes sense for the people who blew up the other boat to live with their guilt of that. Then again, it just seems like something the Joker would have done (to switch the detonators).

That their desiree to live, lead to their deaths.

^ The perfect way to phrase it. Definitely fits the Joker's style.

 

[Knight Rise]

My guess is he probably did tell the truth, but there was an unexpected catch. Like all 3 detonators were rigged to both boats so all of them would've died regardless.

 

[CJ]

Wouldn't make any sense. The Joker spent the whole movie trying to prove that anyone can be corrupted. He would want to keep the ones that did push the button alive as examples of how right his "philosophy" was.

Remember how he wanted to kill Harvey throughout most of the movie, but then when he learned that he survived, but now was a twisted shell of his former self, he thought Harvey would be more useful to his plans alive, rather than dead, so he gave him the gun and sent him off to spread more chaos and anarchy.

Chaos and Anarchy is all the Joker wants. He'd want the people that DID push the button to stay alive, not the innocent. They're useless to him.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

Wouldn't make any sense. The Joker spent the whole movie trying to prove that anyone can be corrupted. He would want to keep the ones that did push the button alive as examples of how right his "philosophy" was.

Remember how he wanted to kill Harvey throughout most of the movie, but then when he learned that he survived, but now was a twisted shell of his former self, he thought Harvey would be more useful to his plans alive, rather than dead, so he gave him the gun and sent him off to spread more chaos and anarchy.

Chaos and Anarchy is all the Joker wants. He'd want the people that DID push the button to stay alive, not the innocent. They're useless to him.

I've always wondered about that. I mean, if the Joker really wanted Harvey dead during the chase scene, then why did he have plans to later trap him in the warehouse with the oil drums? He would have had to have planned that ahead of time. We can't really be sure if he wanted Harvey dead at all...

 

[The Joker]

I put it in the same boat as him initially wanting to have Batman unmask to Gotham. He changed his mind about that, too.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

Yeah, that’s true. I thought that he might have been lying about that too, like maybe he never thought Batman would unmask himself, but I guess it's just something we’ll never really know.

 

[Knight Rise]

Now that I think it over, this doesn't sound like something this Joker specifically would do. In the end, letting people corrupt themselves was what he wanted and that's what he would've gotten had one of them pressed the button. Lying and blowing up both boats sounds like TAS Joker

 

[The Joker]

Yeah, that’s true. I thought that he might have been lying about that too

It's not that hew as lying here, it's that he changed his mind and came up with something better.

 

[HisMagicTrick]

It's not that hew as lying here, it's that he changed his mind and came up with something better.

Yes, but my mind tried to make it logical by thinking he was lying It just would be impossible to change his plans so quickly (eg: one second, he wants to kill Harvey ‘cause he believes he is Batman, the next he is telling Bruce that he doesn’t want to kill Batman). Seriously though, I look way too much into this, and it’s only a movie, so it probably comes down to what you’re saying: the Joker just kept changing his mind.