What Impact does SV have on a new Superman movie?

[GreenKToo]

Concur. Love SV's Lex.

 

[Superman_20]

the one thing iwant them to take from Smallville is that Clark Kent isnt a clumsy idiot

an idiot stands out just as much as a guy in a flashy red cape...... especially in an office setting... i think clark should be the way alex ross would probably try and portray him.. just as a loner that isn't really remembered, nothing memorable about the guy... just walks around the office, yes sir, no sir, just doesn't stand out... isn't clumsy, but isn't memorable... everyone has worked with someone like that, someone that if they didn't come in to work you just wouldn't even remember, i know i work with people like that

 

[daveswb]

Well the impact that SV could have on the new films is a few things.

I think a lot of people like the way Lex is/was portrayed on SV. I hate how he as portrayed in all of the movies. A bumbling fool after realestate? That made him a second class villian. I like the I want to rule the world to save it attitude from SV.

Also as for those talking about the bumbling Clark aspect. I feel that is something that is developed more as Clark developed his secret identity. He developed 2 differnet distinct personalities to help throw pwoplw off the trail that he is Superman.

And the final way SV would influence the movies. Well a lot of people don't want to hear this, but I have it on good authority that Welling is still DC/WB's top pick to portray Superman in the movies. He is the one turning them down, but they keep asking. Who know's maybe one day he'll give in and put on the cape.

And if not you have to assume that influences thier choice for an actor to portray him.

 

[That-Guy]

The impact of Smallville on the next Superman movie?

John: Okay, so here are the showtimes. What movie do you want to see?

Jane: Hmmm... not sure. Hmmm, The Man of Steel? What's that?

John: Oh, that's the new Superman movie. Want to go?

Jane: Superman... wait a minute does this have something to do with that stupid Smallville show? Like is it some sort of continuation from that crap?

John: Not sure.

Jane: Meh, f**k it. I wouldn't waste my money on that garbage. Let's go see Salt 2: With Pepper.

 

[BH/HHH]

The impact of Smallville on the next Superman movie?

John: Okay, so here are the showtimes. What movie do you want to see?

Jane: Hmmm... not sure. Hmmm, The Man of Steel? What's that?

John: Oh, that's the new Superman movie. Want to go?

Jane: Superman... wait a minute does this have something to do with that stupid Smallville show? Like is it some sort of continuation from that crap?

John: Not sure.

Jane: Meh, f**k it. I wouldn't waste my money on that garbage. Let's go see Salt 2: With Pepper.

Whilst I'd happily see a movie spin off from Smallville, the Salt 2: Red Pepper comment had me in stitches ha ha

 

[That-Guy]

LOL, yeah. I was trying to think of the crappiest movie I've seen this year that is most likely to get a sequel (other than Clash of the Titans).

 

[Motown Marvel]

aw man, just thinking about smallville pisses me off.

 

[Tra-El]

For the fans who have watched Clark grow up and are going to move from that to a new Superman movie...

What are you willing to accept as mythology? Do you want some mention of Chloe or asian Lana to make it cohesive? Of course there're gonna be some discrepancies.... But how much is everyone willing to set aside for a good Superman movie? Cause nobody's gonna get exactly what they want...

At this point, I almost feel like they'll need to have some nod to Smallvile.... One that doesn't crap on everything but will be a nice Easter egg to the SV followers...

No influence whatsoever. SV has almost a 10 year continuity that's not only different from anything that the comic puts out, but any Superman film as well. Goyer didn't write the script from the Smallville T.V series I can almost tell you that. What would be the point to start a fresh re-boot if you would go out of your way to include Smallville continuity? Besides, not EVERYONE watches Smallville, so it'll be a confusing message.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

No influence whatsoever. SV has almost a 10 year continuity that's not only different from anything that the comic puts out, but any Superman film as well. Goyer didn't write the script from the Smallville T.V series I can almost tell you that. What would be the point to start a fresh re-boot if you would go out of your way to include Smallville continuity? Besides, not EVERYONE watches Smallville, so it'll be a confusing message.

Not only that there are many people out there who dislike Smallville as well. Once again Smallville is about as well received as Superman Returns where people could care less if it is on the air or off the air. The only difference between the two of them is one cost little to make. Personally I love the show and would have loved to see it continue through the comics in some aspect like Buffy. Where there they can introduce a SV version of Batman and Wonder Woman and Flash and not get into trouble for doing so.. And continue with Clark being Superman however with Earth One now being DC Ultimate Universe I don't see that happening.

 

[Nightwing1983]

Isn't this year supposed to be the last year Smallville is on anyway?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Smallville is the origin story. The reboot should be different. If it's any indication, they will probably find a middle-ground where both universes can coexist. The impact is there - SV gave us 10 years of Superman, it's more true to the comics than Superman Returns. But knowing the grand scale this film is aiming for - they'll be more concerned about SR than SV.

 

[El Payaso]

Smallville is the origin story. The reboot should be different. If it's any indication, they will probably find a middle-ground where both universes can coexist. The impact is there - SV gave us 10 years of Superman, it's more true to the comics than Superman Returns. But knowing the grand scale this film is aiming for - they'll be more concerned about SR than SV.

I have said many times that I only saw the first episode and half of the second of Smallville so I can't give an opinion. Now I have seen some scenes now and then and please correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen in those glimpses a fair number of discrepancies respect to the comics. And not just little details but like big big changes. Is it really that faithful?

 

[GreenKToo]

SV is faithful in some areas, not so much in others...unless someone like DR Fate does a memory wipe on everyone, there will be no need for clark to try and hide that he is superman. also, he met way too many of his arch villains too soon..Doomsday, metallo, and maybe darkseid. whats up with that.

what I did like was how the kents were portrayed. I loved it's Lex as well. thought they were spot on. So I guess i'm saying if they can make the kents and Lex close to the way they were portrayed on SV, i'd be ok with that, but nothing else tho.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

I have said many times that I only saw the first episode and half of the second of Smallville so I can't give an opinion. Now I have seen some scenes now and then and please correct me if I'm wrong but I have seen in those glimpses a fair number of discrepancies respect to the comics. And not just little details but like big big changes. Is it really that faithful?

Trust me, Smallville has managed to condense stories and elements from Superman's vast mythology from all eras. Yes, there are important changes too, but it's surprising how they took a little from all the different eras and told their own linear story from that. The black 'Blur' costume is a modernization of the black-suit Superman wore after his battle with Doomsday, we have Lex and Clark as friends in Smallville like the Silver Age, and Jor-El and the majority of the 'Krypton' stories are all nods to the Christopher Reeve films. It's great how they managed to change things and yet kept so many of them true. I know this might upset many core fans, but the way I see it, Smallville is to Superman as the first act of Begins was to Batman: important changes, but many things left intact.

Superman Returns was only true to the Donner film. It still has its own place in Superman's cinematic history, but in terms of 'adaptation' Smallville got more in their 10-years worth of stories. Maybe Singer and co. could've incorporated elements too, perhaps with their extended budget they might've surpassed SV, but from what we have, that's not the case.

 

[El Payaso]

Trust me, Smallville has managed to condense stories and elements from Superman's vast mythology from all eras. Yes, there are important changes too, but it's surprising how they took a little from all the different eras and told their own linear story from that. The black 'Blur' costume is a modernization of the black-suit Superman wore after his battle with Doomsday, we have Lex and Clark as friends in Smallville like the Silver Age, and Jor-El and the majority of the 'Krypton' stories are all nods to the Christopher Reeve films. It's great how they managed to change things and yet kept so many of them true. I know this might upset many core fans, but the way I see it, Smallville is to Superman as the first act of Begins was to Batman: important changes, but many things left intact.

If I'm getting this right they adapted and condensed a lot of Superman stories... and set them before he even was Superman?

Superman Returns was only true to the Donner film. It still has its own place in Superman's cinematic history, but in terms of 'adaptation' Smallville got more in their 10-years worth of stories. Maybe Singer and co. could've incorporated elements too, perhaps with their extended budget they might've surpassed SV, but from what we have, that's not the case.

Well, Donner movies were extremely close to the comics to start with. I mean, way closer than anything you've told me about Smallville and Clark's black suits and villiains being there when he's not Superman. I mean, good for the show if it has lasted 10 years but really more faithful?

 

[Nave 'Torment']

The only impact SV might have on the new film is the fact that it told the origin story for 10 years, repeating that would be tiresome for the audience and the producers know it well. I like the poll-thread that asks how it would tackle the origin story. I think a 'Year One' approach is the best way to go for this one. That way, whatever is the 'origin' story, whether Nolan and Snyder alludes to Donner, Smallville or any incarnation of the comics, they can go ahead and tell their own story about 'Superman' and how his emergence effects humanity.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

If I'm getting this right they adapted and condensed a lot of Superman stories... and set them before he even was Superman?

Well, Donner movies were extremely close to the comics to start with. I mean, way closer than anything you've told me about Smallville and Clark's black suits and villiains being there when he's not Superman. I mean, good for the show if it has lasted 10 years but really more faithful?

It's really not that much of a stretch - Clark knew Lex as a boy in the Silver Age, I see at as that. Brainiac's encounter with Superman in the comics has little or nothing to do with Kal-El publicly being Superman, and Doomsday was a bit different here - they changed the story of his imprisonment to Clark being the one who caged him on Earth. I know it sounds blasphemous but from a narrative point of view it's really not that much of a stretch. I want to go back to Begins and compare how Bruce there met Ra's Al Ghul way before he became Batman. As for the Donner movies, I don't know, it came out in the 70s, there's a lot of original material there that wasn't in the comics before that. Yes, a lot of it has been reintroduced post-crisis, but we're not addressing Superman: The Movie, we're talking about Superman Returns. The deviations in SR were a lot more drastic. That's not to say that it's a bad movie or anything, I loved SR, but in terms of being an adaptation, SV wins with tall leaps.

 

[KyleDW2]

Trust me, Smallville has managed to condense stories and elements from Superman's vast mythology from all eras. Yes, there are important changes too...

Stop right there.

Smallville is the origin story. The reboot should be different. If it's any indication, they will probably find a middle-ground where both universes can coexist. The impact is there - SV gave us 10 years of Superman, it's more true to the comics than Superman Returns. But knowing the grand scale this film is aiming for - they'll be more concerned about SR than SV.

This is what you were arguing, is it not? That Returns went way too far away from the comics and their version of Superman and that Smallville didn't? Yet in the quote I posted above, you admit that Smallville changed some rather important things. But you seem to think that Smallville is okay, despite changing things far away from the comics and their version of Superman. Or is it somehow better to have Clark be the trench coat wearing Blur for 10 years while Lois knows his secret and Clark has met every other hero and villain in the DC universe before he even thinks about using his own costume than for Superman to be a somber loner who feels he can't connect with anyone on Earth so he abandons it for five years and finds out later that Lois had his kid but nobody knows its his kid and Lex is still a wacky land swindlyer?

You know, it really amazes me when people attack Superman Returns for being not true to the comics and then praise Smallville. Yes, Smallville, the show that pretty much altered every aspect of Clark Kent's story to keep him out of costume for as long as humanly possible. When Green Arrow is in costume before Superman? That is getting it wrong.

 

[KyleDW2]

It's really not that much of a stretch - Clark knew Lex as a boy in the Silver Age, I see at as that. Brainiac's encounter with Superman in the comics has little or nothing to do with Kal-El publicly being Superman, and Doomsday was a bit different here - they changed the story of his imprisonment to Clark being the one who caged him on Earth. I know it sounds blasphemous but from a narrative point of view it's really not that much of a stretch. I want to go back to Begins and compare how Bruce there met Ra's Al Ghul way before he became Batman. As for the Donner movies, I don't know, it came out in the 70s, there's a lot of original material there that wasn't in the comics before that. Yes, a lot of it has been reintroduced post-crisis, but we're not addressing Superman: The Movie, we're talking about Superman Returns. The deviations in SR were a lot more drastic. That's not to say that it's a bad movie or anything, I loved SR, but in terms of being an adaptation, SV wins with tall leaps.

Doesn't Lois know Clark is Superman before he even becomes Superman? And aren't they engaged? And isn't Clark's mom a senator? And didn't Clark easily beat Doomsday once already? And isn't most of the Justice League in costume before the guy who is supposed to inspire a brand new era of costumed adventurers? And can't Supergirl fly before Superman? And oh yeah, there's this:

How does Supergirl even exist before Superman? That is not exactly a minor change my friend.

 

[fixxxer1022]

Concur. Love SV's Lex.

EPIC lex!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKRYRVEFDzE

 

[Man of Tomorrow]

Forgot about this thread.

The only major deviation Superman Returns made was the addition of Jason.

Everything else fell in line with Donner's Superman 1978 origin. The origins weren't altered at all.


Lois didn't grow up with Clark in Smallville. Wasn't engaged to him before Superman and pushed him towards his secret identity. He didn't encounter Lois, Lex, Jimmy, Perry and all the rest without his glasses/reporter disguise as Clark Etc.

 

[El Payaso]

Thanks people. I had the strong feeling that Smallville's storyline was radically different from the average comic's.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Don't see how a SV vs. SR debate is relevant on this thread, especially since I said both were good on their own. But lets do this anyway.

This is what you were arguing, is it not? That Returns went way too far away from the comics and their version of Superman and that Smallville didn't?

No, I said Smallville was an adaptation that was more faithful to the comics than Superman Returns, solely because it took elements from all eras of Superman, while the latter didn't. An adaptation, by definition, is allowed to take liberties. I'm not 'attacking' Superman Returns in any way, so lets keep that clear.

Yet in the quote I posted above, you admit that Smallville changed some rather important things. But you seem to think that Smallville is okay, despite changing things far away from the comics and their version of Superman.

Who ever said change was bad? I compared Smallville to Batman Begins. Both made important changes.

Or is it somehow better to have Clark be the trench coat wearing Blur for 10 years while Lois knows his secret and Clark has met every other hero and villain in the DC universe before he even thinks about using his own costume than for Superman to be a somber loner who feels he can't connect with anyone on Earth so he abandons it for five years and finds out later that Lois had his kid but nobody knows its his kid and Lex is still a wacky land swindlyer?

Again, you're getting the wrong idea. I'm not comparing the Kal-El of SV to the Kal-El of SR; the first looks into the things that made him the icon he is and the second looks into that icon returning to his 'home' after a leave of absence to see how things have changed. But if you really want me to address these issues, fine - the 10 years is a nod to his adventures as Superboy in the comics, apart from a few detours SV showed a lot of respect for the Donner films. Seasons 4-10, i.e. from the time he creates the Fortress to when he becomes Superman, is very reminiscent of the '7 year training' that Kal-El goes through in the first Donner movie. In the modern comics Lois knows Clark's secret, having her know about it beforehand only made their relationship more believable. And it's not as if doing so disrupted those moments when mild-mannered Kent longed for Lois and she dismissed him, that happened for a good long while. As for knowing nearly every villain - like I said, it's not that big a deal. At least SV gave us live-action versions of the characters - gave us adaptations of characters who would probably have never been adapted. As a fan of comics I think you should at least respect that.

SR is great, it kept the classic story of Kal-El longing for humanity and normalcy intact, it made a lot of nods and quirks about Reeve's films, but it's in no way more true to the comics than SV is. If you're going to talk about Clark knowing about Lex Luthor, Brainiac and Doomsday before they came along, then maybe you had a problem with seeing Superman with a 5-year absence in his prime and his that son of his.

And... I don't think he abandoned Earth or the people because he failed to connect with it, it was because he found a trace of Krypton and looked it up. Wacky, land-swindler Lex isn't a very accurate depiction of the character from the comics anyway.

You know, it really amazes me when people attack Superman Returns for being not true to the comics and then praise Smallville. Yes, Smallville, the show that pretty much altered every aspect of Clark Kent's story to keep him out of costume for as long as humanly possible. When Green Arrow is in costume before Superman? That is getting it wrong.

As I've said, Smallville is an origin story. If you're really going to play the 'he was out of costume for this and this long' it's really irrelevant because in SR's own continuity, Clark Kent wasn't Superman for just as long. As for Green Arrow, how does Oliver Queen's origin concern a Superman story in any way? It doesn't. Adaptations are about alterations.

Thanks people. I had the strong feeling that Smallville's storyline was radically different from the average comic's

No less different than other origin stories. I'm not saying that it's flawless, but truth be told, it tackled more material from the comics (in all its years) than the film franchise did.

 

[El Payaso]

Don't see how a SV vs. SR debate is relevant on this thread, especially since I said both were good on their own. But lets do this anyway.

Might not be relevant. But you said SV was far more faithful than SR so some people might disagree.

No less different than other origin stories. I'm not saying that it's flawless, but truth be told, it tackled more material from the comics (in all its years) than the film franchise did.

That can explained because SV has tons of episodes and the franchise just 5 films.

But from what I've heard here, it seems SV has had more years to change things also.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Doesn't Lois know Clark is Superman before he even becomes Superman? And aren't they engaged? And isn't Clark's mom a senator? And didn't Clark easily beat Doomsday once already? And isn't most of the Justice League in costume before the guy who is supposed to inspire a brand new era of costumed adventurers? And can't Supergirl fly before Superman? And oh yeah, there's this:

How does Supergirl even exist before Superman? That is not exactly a minor change my friend.

Aren't Lois and Clark married in the comics, as opposed to her raising his child with a member of the White family? It's really fun to do this - really. But this isn't the place for it. I liked both interpretations and can't wait to see how Nolan and Snyder adapts the character in their film.

I'm sure it'll be a reboot and pretty much shun everything that's happened before, but the simple fact that there was a Superman film franchise before this, which attempted a sequel/remake, that there was a Superman TV Show before this, will be on the back of the filmmaker's minds. How that impacts the story is very important too - they will probably not want to tackle another origin story, or do a 'future-era' Superman tale. The 'impact', I think, stops there. It's about asking oneself which story about Superman you want to tell and what comes off fresh and interesting for the audience, which story that hasn't already been told? SV was the tale of how Clark Kent became Superman; Superman 1-through-R about how he really is a savior of the people; this one could explore what Kal-El's existence means to his adopted world. They might want to explore Superman's influence on a global scale. About what he means politically, scientifically and as a super-hero on his own regard.

If the rumors are true and Goyer wrote a script that liked John Byrne's work, we'll be lucky to see some common ground shared by SR, SV, and the new film. The first thing I'm guessing is that they will explore Krypton a lot more like it was in the comics. I would love to see them explore Clark's role as an investigative journalist, something that they could take from Smallville and make it more matured. If this thread really is about what the new film can learn from SV, we should talk about the things it got right and things it didn't. Not compare it to SR. Because at the end of the day, both series are dead. As far as the producers are concerned. Both deserve to end.