What is more meaningless? Suffering or pleasure?

[blind_fury]

LOL, I'll stand by my comment. I don't know about you but:

Pleasure=awsome. It's as simple as that to me.

Would you program a machine to feel and pursue pleasure?

If so, what would be the point? Does the pleasure experienced by the machine increase it's worth or lower it?

 

[Danalys]

i don't think that the fleeting nature would make a difference.

 

[blind_fury]

Prove one exists.

jag

If God wasn't a mystery life would be an even greater waste of time. It would be like having a party at your parents house while they were still home.

 

[britrogue]

Tough question. I'd like to say suffering because I don't like to think of anyone suffering, but then only good can come from suffering if you are prepared to learn and become stronger. Pleasure tends to be taken for granted.

 

[blind_fury]

i don't think that the fleeting nature would make a difference.

A machine programed to pursue pleasure would be worse than a machine that was completely selfless.

Machine A masterbates all day. Machine B cleans the environment. Which one would YOU mass produce?

 

[Danalys]

one that takes pleasure in cleaning.

 

[blind_fury]

that arguement doesn't hold with me because i believe we create meaning in our mind.

for example the meaning of a word. we create the word and it's meaning.

No, we create the word to descibe the meaning, but the meaning was always there waiting to be described.

 

[blind_fury]

LOL, I'll stand by my comment. I don't know about you but:

Pleasure=awsome. It's as simple as that to me.

Pleasure may be "awesome" but that does not mean it's meaningful. No more meaningful than a dog chasing its tail.

No offense.

 

[Danalys]

words don't describe meaning they mean a description. the word red is meaningless unless it describes the colour red.

 

[Strange]

Suffering builds character.

 

[jaguarr]

If God wasn't a mystery life would be an even greater waste of time. It would be like having a party at your parents house while they were still home.

Nice rambling tangent with flowery imagery, but you didn't prove whether God exists or not.

jag

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

14 hours a day is even longer when your suffering.

Dreams occupy time. Suffering and pleasure is a complete waste of time. We're like dogs chasing our own tails.

What does this collection of painful and pleasurable experiences add up to? A decaying tombstone covered in moss.

well if your experience can be passed on to a future generation, it may benefit them so they don't make the same mistakes or perhaps catch on to the pleasure quicker...

such it the role of evolution. you're here to benefit those of future generations directly.

 

[blind_fury]

one that takes pleasure in cleaning.

good answer. lol.

 

[blind_fury]

well if your experience can be passed on to a future generation, it may benefit them so they don't make the same mistakes or perhaps catch on to the pleasure quicker...

such it the role of evolution. you're here to benefit those of future generations directly.

another good answer.

I guess suffering and pleasure have meaning via evolution. Suffering and pleasure guide our evolution.

But were will evolution take us? Every day humanity suffers less and less. Can we evolve without suffering?

 

[blind_fury]

Nice rambling tangent with flowery imagery, but you didn't prove whether God exists or not.

jag

I gave you the reason there can never be proof God exist. Because life would lose all purpose.

Now can you explain why you can't prove God doesn't exist?

 

[Strange]

another good answer.

I guess suffering and pleasure have meaning via evolution. Suffering and pleasure guide our evolution.

But were will evolution take us? Every day humanity suffers less and less. Can we evolve without suffering?

How do you figure that humanity suffers less and less? The higher our population gets the more suffering there will be for everyone. More war, less food and more just crazy people running around.

 

[blind_fury]

words don't describe meaning they mean a description. the word red is meaningless unless it describes the colour red.

The word red is meaningless without describing something because it hasn't been attatched to a meaning. That's not to say the meaning wouldn't exist if it wasn't attatched to some word.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

another good answer.

I guess suffering and pleasure have meaning via evolution. Suffering and pleasure guide our evolution.

But were will evolution take us? Every day humanity suffers less and less. Can we evolve without suffering?

in an ideal world, this would be true

but we aren't the only thing evolving

just as the rabbit evolves to avoid the fox, the fox evolves to become a better rabbit hunter.

it's a relative equilibrium and even when we are at the top of the food change, we find ways of hunting and being prey to one another, so we are evolving to become better and killing, protecting ourselves from one another leaving us fairly uniform.

if we knew where evolution would eventually take and leave us, then we would use technology to get their faster, however this knowledge is unknown to us as it depends on are surroundings and many other aspects. All we can do is stay on the ride and see where it takes us and hope our inputs make the journey faster whether good or bad. by that time we shall cease to exist and all we can do is hope humanity gets to its destination safely.

 

[jaguarr]

I gave you the reason there can never be proof God exist. Because life would lose all purpose.

Now can you explain why you can't prove God doesn't exist?

Why is the purpose of life dependent on God's existence? I don't believe that it is at all. It is what it is. No God required.

As to your second question, I can no more prove that God does not exist than you can prove that God does exist. That you would ask me to prove that is asinine to begin with. Just as asinine as me asking you to prove that a God does exist (which I did anyway, to illustrate this concept). It can't be done. Period. It's dependent on personal beliefs. For me, personally, I believe the idea of a God is a human construct devised to enable us to feel like we understand what is completely outside our own abilities to fathom; where we came from, how we came into existence, why we are here, etc.

jag

 

[blind_fury]

How do you figure that humanity suffers less and less? The higher our population gets the more suffering there will be for everyone. More war, less food and more just crazy people running around.

As technology increases and spreads the quality of life and standard of living of people gets better and better. Yes the population was lower in 1850, but back then toilets didnt flush and there were no painkillers etc. so life sucked.

Malthusian theory(growing population would cause endless suffering) was proven wrong in the 1980s when the world population topped 4 billion.

 

[Strange]

As technology increases and spreads the quality of life and standard of living of people gets better and better. Yes the population was lower in 1850, but back then toilets didnt flush and there was no painkillers etc. so life sucked.

Malthusian theory(growing population would cause endless suffering) was proven wrong in the 1980s when the world population topped 4 billion.

Technology is only for the people that can afford it.

And how can a theory of growing population causing suffering be proved wrong with a certain number of people? It is estimated that the world's populalation will double in the next 50 years and that is when you will see a problem.

 

[jaguarr]

Technology is only for the people that can afford it.

Who will in turn use it against the people who cannot afford it.

jag

 

[Strange]

Who will in turn use it against the people who cannot afford it.

jag

Exactly, its the way of the world. Ask any American Indian.

 

[blind_fury]

Ultimately, I think both are meaningless because both are fleeting. Well, suffering could be continual but it can be changed. It can be overcome. Pleasure and suffering are also related in a way. If someone cannot get the same type of pleasure they are used to they may suffer. Pleasure is different from happiness. True happiness is deeper than pleasure. Pleasure is shallow and temporary and rooted in desire. So if we loose our desire, we will not suffer. Yes, I'm into Buddhism.

So from a Buddhist perspective, why can't all the suffering and pleasure be avoided? Why can't we be born into nirivana? Would the universe collapse into itself or something?

 

[Mr. Thing]

I'm gonna go with the most obvious answer: Suffering. Pleasure makes people feel good, and everyone wants to. Nobody wants to suffer, really.