The Amazing Spider-Man What needs to be fixed the second time around?

[batman44]

I pretty much agree with Joker's list.

 

[I Am The Bat]

Hahaha, no they're not.



How can you even compare the two? This reboot is a brand new universe that has NOTHING to do with Raimi's movies.

Queseda's reboot had Peter sell out his marriage for a universal mind wipe to save Aunt May and keep his identity a secret from the world.

Apples and oranges.



No, not with Lizard, because that was in the comics, as was the one with the Osborns. I'm talking about ones with Doc Ock, Sandman etc.

They're not needed.



Not true at all. Most of Spidey's villains have no personal connections to him, and they all work superbly. Same with Batman. The Joker had no personal connection to Batman in TDK, and it was terrific. Joker simply became obsessed with Batman the more he got to know him.



No, it most certainly is not.

You are 100% wrong there. Peter's life is all about Spider-Man, and using his great power with great responsibility.

Girls have nothing to do with it. Go back and read Amazing Fantasy #15, and find me the passage that states Spidey's life revolves around a girl.

Yeeesh!



When you use JMS and Queseda as back up for your arguement, you know you're in trouble



No, you definitely are. That poll didn't come out of thin air. People have been wanting those things for years.

And with the reboot, we just may get them at last.



If you think that's all there is to Spider-Man's world, you clearly haven't read enough comics. The drama from high school years alone is enough to make an entire movie out of. And that was done in 20 minutes of SM-1.

Of course I can compare the two. His idea: Take out the girl. Our idea: Take out the girl. And you made my point too... He keeps identify concealed to protect his loved ones... Though he will keep his mask on to protect his aunt, the elimination of a love interest from the story completely eliminates potential story lines.

In reference to his relationship with the villains, he had a connection with Doc Ock though... We are closer to agreeing on this one than any other point, so I'll move on.

The statement that his life is entirely about a girl is a bit too much, but I still disagree about not focusing on it... He has, since Amazing Fantasy 15, sought after the girls, which at some level makes the character more relatable. Excerpt from 2nd page of AF15

What poll are you referring too, I'm commenting on your comments... I haven't voted on this poll yet, so if you are referring to this one and you are making the judgement that a sample of X represents the population then you have a little bit more to learn about statistics my friend...

I take your remark about me not having read enough comics as a severe insult. I grew up reading every single Amazing Spiderman - starting with AF15 - and I'm not saying that there is all there is concerning spiderman... just what is left when you take out your proposed edits.

 

[OptimusPrime114]

If you think that's all there is to Spider-Man's world, you clearly haven't read enough comics. The drama from high school years alone is enough to make an entire movie out of. And that was done in 20 minutes of SM-1.

Dude, I'm sure he was probably making up some Peter would say, Ultimate-style. Chill!

 

[The Joker]

Of course I can compare the two. His idea: Take out the girl. Our idea: Take out the girl. And you made my point too... He keeps identify concealed to protect his loved ones... Though he will keep his mask on to protect his aunt, the elimination of a love interest from the story completely eliminates potential story lines.

What the hell are you talking about? Who said eliminate the love interest? I'm saying Peter's story is not "All about a girl". The love interest is only one PART of Peter's story. Not the focus of it.

In reference to his relationship with the villains, he had a connection with Doc Ock though... We are closer to agreeing on this one than any other point, so I'll move on.

Do you mean in the comics? He had no connection to Ock in the comics until they met as hero and villain.

The statement that his life is entirely about a girl is a bit too much, but I still disagree about not focusing on it... He has, since Amazing Fantasy 15, sought after the girls, which at some level makes the character more relatable. Excerpt from 2nd page of AF15

That's entirely different. That page showcases Peter as a social outcast and loner. Nothing about it being all about a girl. It's about Peter being a social outcast.

Look at his last words there. "Some day I'll show them. Some day I'll make them sorry they laughed at me".

Nothing to do with any girl. Wheras in the movies, nearly everything he did revolved around his obsession with MJ. he got bitten by the spider because he was photographing MJ. He went to the wrestling arena to buy a car to impress MJ. There's friction between him and Harry over MJ. His powers go screwy because of his feelings for MJ etc. I could go on and on.....

What poll are you referring too, I'm commenting on your comments...

My comments are based on the poll. They all stem from years of reading these complaints from fans.

I haven't voted on this poll yet, so if you are referring to this one and you are making the judgement that a sample of X represents the population then you have a little bit more to learn about statistics my friend...

As I've repeatedly said, my friend, I am basing my opinion on years of reading vast amounts of the same complaints about this franchise.

Not solely on this poll. This poll is simply a product of those complaints.

I take your remark about me not having read enough comics as a severe insult. I grew up reading every single Amazing Spiderman - starting with AF15 - and I'm not saying that there is all there is concerning spiderman... just what is left when you take out your proposed edits.

Sorry if you felt insulted, but your claim that those edits would hurt the Spider-Man story makes no sense, when that's how it is in the comic books.

We're proposing changes that are closer to the source.

 

[Immortalfire]

The mask. Keep it on, dammit.

 

[I Am The Bat]

What the hell are you talking about? Who said eliminate the love interest? I'm saying Peter's story is not "All about a girl". The love interest is only one PART of Peter's story. Not the focus of it.

Alright - I'll agree with you here. I misinterpreted you as saying that there should not be a focus on a girl. The lack of a focus (not focal part of a story line, just the involved meant of MJ or Gwen) is what I took issue with.

Do you mean in the comics? He had no connection to Ock in the comics until they met as hero and villain.

You are right that their first interaction was a fight, however, subsequent story lines they do develop more of just a "bank robber/hero" connection.

That's entirely different. That page showcases Peter as a social outcast and loner. Nothing about it being all about a girl. It's about Peter being a social outcast.

Look at his last words there. "Some day I'll show them. Some day I'll make them sorry they laughed at me".

Nothing to do with any girl. Wheras in the movies, nearly everything he did revolved around his obsession with MJ. he got bitten by the spider because he was photographing MJ. He went to the wrestling arena to buy a car to impress MJ. There's friction between him and Harry over MJ. His powers go screwy because of his feelings for MJ etc. I could go on and on.....

Refer to above comment

My comments are based on the poll. They all stem from years of reading these complaints from fans.

As I've repeatedly said, my friend, I am basing my opinion on years of reading vast amounts of the same complaints about this franchise.

Not solely on this poll. This poll is simply a product of those complaints.

I'm sorry - I can't take your word that your opinion of what you have read over the years and this poll is an accurate representation of population would like to see in the next SM film

Sorry if you felt insulted, but your claim that those edits would hurt the Spider-Man story makes no sense, when that's how it is in the comic books.

We're proposing changes that are closer to the source.

I agree that changes should be more closely related to the source material, however, some of your suggestions go against the source material. There have been plenty of storylines focusing on Peter's relationship with woman... Just pick up any recent ASM and you'll see something about Peter mistakenly sleeping with his roommate. There are also plenty of story lines focusing on solely enemies. There have been many storylines in which Peter does not have a personal connection, however, there are also plenty of storylines which he does (which, IMO, provides a better story). I'm just saying that your suggestions aren't totally inline with the source material, but I suppose my criticisms of your suggestions aren't entirely inline of the source material either.

 

[The Joker]

You are right that their first interaction was a fight, however, subsequent story lines they do develop more of just a "bank robber/hero" connection.

Ock was never a bank robber. His schemes are always scientifically based. Any money he steals was always to serve a higher purpose, like in Spider-Man 2, for example.

Spidey's relationship with Ock has always been both a mental and physical challenge. And very often they reflected themes of how Spidey and Ock are mirror images of eachother. The geek gone good, and the geek gone bad.

This is one of the strengths of their relationship. Alot of it is on a conceptual level. They don't need to forge forced connections of the two characters to make it interesting. Not that Doc Ock has not messed with Peter's personal life, of course.

I'm sorry - I can't take your word that your opinion of what you have read over the years and this poll is an accurate representation of population would like to see in the next SM film

That's your choice to believe it or not. But I'm telling you that is the basis for my opinions and the poll, because I share that general consensus.

I agree that changes should be more closely related to the source material, however, some of your suggestions go against the source material. There have been plenty of storylines focusing on Peter's relationship with woman... Just pick up any recent ASM and you'll see something about Peter mistakenly sleeping with his roommate.

You're missing the point. You have to take over 50+ years of comic book history, and make a story out of it. Peter's had stories that focus on his scientific talent, his relationship with Aunt May, Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson, Harry, Gwen, MJ, Betty Brant etc. Does this mean all of those should be the focal point of his life, too? Of course not.

There has to be even distribution of these elements into Peter's story. First and foremost should be Peter's dedication to his great power with great responsibility ideals. What Raimi did wrong was that he swung that heavily on Peter's relationship with MJ.

Even the villains always had to end up putting her in danger. She always had to be at the center of Peter's crisis.

There are also plenty of story lines focusing on solely enemies. There have been many storylines in which Peter does not have a personal connection, however, there are also plenty of storylines which he does (which, IMO, provides a better story). I'm just saying that your suggestions aren't totally inline with the source material, but I suppose my criticisms of your suggestions aren't entirely inline of the source material either.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Doc Ock, Sandman etc could, and still can be, even more compelling villains on screen without any personal ties to Peter.

We have villains like The Lizard, Harry and Norman etc for that. They work because the comics have a rich history of Peter being personally conflicted with these characters.

 

[I Am The Bat]

Ock was never a bank robber. His schemes are always scientifically based. Any money he steals was always to serve a higher purpose, like in Spider-Man 2, for example.

Spidey's relationship with Ock has always been both a mental and physical challenge. And very often they reflected themes of how Spidey and Ock are mirror images of eachother. The geek gone good, and the geek gone bad.

This is one of the strengths of their relationship. Alot of it is on a conceptual level. They don't need to forge forced connections of the two characters to make it interesting. Not that Doc Ock has not messed with Peter's personal life, of course.

I think we are coming to more of a consensus here. From my understanding of your comments, you were arguing for the, again, exclusion of any personal ties which, in my mind, would not include those connections. So if inclusion of those connections are still there, I agree with you - however, I do not agree that is an exclusion of personal connection.

You're missing the point. You have to take over 50+ years of comic book history, and make a story out of it. Peter's had stories that focus on his scientific talent, his relationship with Aunt May, Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson, Harry, Gwen, MJ, Betty Brant etc. Does this mean all of those should be the focal point of his life, too? Of course not.

There has to be even distribution of these elements into Peter's story. First and foremost should be Peter's dedication to his great power with great responsibility ideals. What Raimi did wrong was that he swung that heavily on Peter's relationship with MJ.

Even the villains always had to end up putting her in danger. She always had to be at the center of Peter's crisis.

I thought we came to a consensus on the point of the "girl-centric" portion of the story, as it should be included, but not the focal element.

Your suggestion of taking 50+ years of story and including it could end of as a cluster**** of a story line. I'll agree it should be less MJ focused and include a wider array of elements, but the inclusion of 50+ years of story could end up horribly.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Doc Ock, Sandman etc could, and still can be, even more compelling villains on screen without any personal ties to Peter.

We have villains like The Lizard, Harry and Norman etc for that. They work because the comics have a rich history of Peter being personally conflicted with these characters.

I agree, but I don't think the lack of personal ties excludes instances where Parker knows the identity of the villain, the villain somehow gets involved in Parker's life (i.e., moves in with his Aunt like Ock did)

 

[Jick]

With the exception of Gwen's death and the webshooters...pretty much all of what is in the poll.

 

[I Am The Bat]

BTW - I like how this arguement is taking place between Batman and The Joker lol

 

[I Am The Bat]

argument*

 

[The Joker]

I think we are coming to more of a consensus here. From my understanding of your comments, you were arguing for the, again, exclusion of any personal ties which, in my mind, would not include those connections. So if inclusion of those connections are still there, I agree with you - however, I do not agree that is an exclusion of personal connection.

Oh no, some villains absolutely MUST have a personal connection to Peter. The likes of Lizard and the Osborns, it's vital to their storyline.

My beef was that Raimi was doing it with all the villains, and seemed to always use it as a way for Peter to 'defeat' the villains.

I thought we came to a consensus on the point of the "girl-centric" portion of the story, as it should be included, but not the focal element.

We are.

I'm just saying that there's alot of stories that focus on various aspects of Peter's life. That's the luxury comic books have when you have them coming out in various titles every month.

A movie has not got that luxury, so you have to balance it. And we both agree that the girl is not the focus of Peter's life. His story has never been "All about a girl", which was the in the opening narration from Peter in SM-1.

I agree, but I don't think the lack of personal ties excludes instances where Parker knows the identity of the villain, the villain somehow gets involved in Parker's life (i.e., moves in with his Aunt like Ock did)

Oh yes, that's fine. Like Ock snagging Aunt May as a hostage at the bank in SM-2. He didn't know he was grabbing Spider-Man's aunt.

BTW - I like how this arguement is taking place between Batman and The Joker lol

LOL! I never even noticed that

 

[Gamma Burst]

Basically ''all of the above".

 

[itsleroy]

Okay, how about a battle in the frigid New York winter?

Oh, and all of the above.

 

[Closerframe]

I don't get what people are saying when they want Spider-Man to be a wise cracking comedian, when I thought that's what we got in the first three Spider-Man films.

 

[Nathan]

I don't get what people are saying when they want Spider-Man to be a wise cracking comedian, when I thought that's what we got in the first three Spider-Man films.

It's because people want more than, what, 5 wisecracks in 2 hours. Also, most of his jokes were horrible.

These are prime examples of actually good wisecracks.

[YT]CmJn4AXKivc[/YT]

 

[Reikowolf]

Peter's true love is Gwen Stacey, who he will lose before the trilogy ends.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Gwen or MJ, whoever they start off with, don't need to be the damsel in distress at the end of every movie.

 

[zeptron]

- More quips but not all the time. Don't need to hear him say over 30 jokes in a single movie.

- No sympathetic villains except for Lizard

- More Spider-man. That's one of my biggest problems with SM3. Spider-man was hardly in the movie. He didn't show up until like a half hour in.

 

[Spikey]

It's because people want more than, what, 5 wisecracks in 2 hours. Also, most of his jokes were horrible.

These are prime examples of actually good wisecracks.

[YT]CmJn4AXKivc[/YT]

"Iuhuu, excuse me. Can I get in this way? Or I'll have to break my own window?"

ROFL, so awesome

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Sympathetic villains aren't a problem. Look at Spectacular Spider-Man for example. Everybody is sympathetic to one degree or another there, with the sole exceptions of Green Goblin and Chameleon (who didn't get enough character development to determine much one way or another), and yet it was highly popular amongst fans to the point that many of them one that series to have an influence on the reboot.

 

[spider-neil]

- No more personal connections between hero and villain, aside from the Osborns.

I strongly disagree with this. I think it better to say a villians connection to the hero shoudn't be FORCED (sandman)

take the lizard, if he (conners) is peter's surrogate father then when he changes peter has a real dilemma with regards to taking a criminal into custody. I thought doc ock knowing peter was an excellent change.

 

[Hobgoblin]

The Goblin/Gwen Stacy story needs to be done right. That was my major complaint with the original story. Gwen needs to be on the bridge and she needs to die.

 

[DACMAN]

Quips, quips, QUIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[spider-neil]

I'll tell you what needs to be fixed, the disgraceful portrail of robbie robinson. he was pushed to the side and for what? so hoffman (who the **** is hoffman? is there a hoffman in the comics?)

robbie is number 2 at the bugle, sort it out sony!!