Hahaha, no they're not.
How can you even compare the two? This reboot is a brand new universe that has NOTHING to do with Raimi's movies.
Queseda's reboot had Peter sell out his marriage for a universal mind wipe to save Aunt May and keep his identity a secret from the world.
Apples and oranges.
No, not with Lizard, because that was in the comics, as was the one with the Osborns. I'm talking about ones with Doc Ock, Sandman etc.
They're not needed.
Not true at all. Most of Spidey's villains have no personal connections to him, and they all work superbly. Same with Batman. The Joker had no personal connection to Batman in TDK, and it was terrific. Joker simply became obsessed with Batman the more he got to know him.
No, it most certainly is not.
You are 100% wrong there. Peter's life is all about Spider-Man, and using his great power with great responsibility.
Girls have nothing to do with it. Go back and read Amazing Fantasy #15, and find me the passage that states Spidey's life revolves around a girl.
Yeeesh!
When you use JMS and Queseda as back up for your arguement, you know you're in trouble
No, you definitely are. That poll didn't come out of thin air. People have been wanting those things for years.
And with the reboot, we just may get them at last.
If you think that's all there is to Spider-Man's world, you clearly haven't read enough comics. The drama from high school years alone is enough to make an entire movie out of. And that was done in 20 minutes of SM-1.
If you think that's all there is to Spider-Man's world, you clearly haven't read enough comics. The drama from high school years alone is enough to make an entire movie out of. And that was done in 20 minutes of SM-1.
Of course I can compare the two. His idea: Take out the girl. Our idea: Take out the girl. And you made my point too... He keeps identify concealed to protect his loved ones... Though he will keep his mask on to protect his aunt, the elimination of a love interest from the story completely eliminates potential story lines.
In reference to his relationship with the villains, he had a connection with Doc Ock though... We are closer to agreeing on this one than any other point, so I'll move on.
The statement that his life is entirely about a girl is a bit too much, but I still disagree about not focusing on it... He has, since Amazing Fantasy 15, sought after the girls, which at some level makes the character more relatable. Excerpt from 2nd page of AF15
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What poll are you referring too, I'm commenting on your comments...
I haven't voted on this poll yet, so if you are referring to this one and you are making the judgement that a sample of X represents the population then you have a little bit more to learn about statistics my friend...
I take your remark about me not having read enough comics as a severe insult. I grew up reading every single Amazing Spiderman - starting with AF15 - and I'm not saying that there is all there is concerning spiderman... just what is left when you take out your proposed edits.
What the hell are you talking about? Who said eliminate the love interest? I'm saying Peter's story is not "All about a girl". The love interest is only one PART of Peter's story. Not the focus of it.
Do you mean in the comics? He had no connection to Ock in the comics until they met as hero and villain.
That's entirely different. That page showcases Peter as a social outcast and loner. Nothing about it being all about a girl. It's about Peter being a social outcast.
Look at his last words there. "Some day I'll show them. Some day I'll make them sorry they laughed at me".
Nothing to do with any girl. Wheras in the movies, nearly everything he did revolved around his obsession with MJ. he got bitten by the spider because he was photographing MJ. He went to the wrestling arena to buy a car to impress MJ. There's friction between him and Harry over MJ. His powers go screwy because of his feelings for MJ etc. I could go on and on.....
My comments are based on the poll. They all stem from years of reading these complaints from fans.
As I've repeatedly said, my friend, I am basing my opinion on years of reading vast amounts of the same complaints about this franchise.
Not solely on this poll. This poll is simply a product of those complaints.
Sorry if you felt insulted, but your claim that those edits would hurt the Spider-Man story makes no sense, when that's how it is in the comic books.
We're proposing changes that are closer to the source.
You are right that their first interaction was a fight, however, subsequent story lines they do develop more of just a "bank robber/hero" connection.
I'm sorry - I can't take your word that your opinion of what you have read over the years and this poll is an accurate representation of population would like to see in the next SM film
I agree that changes should be more closely related to the source material, however, some of your suggestions go against the source material. There have been plenty of storylines focusing on Peter's relationship with woman... Just pick up any recent ASM and you'll see something about Peter mistakenly sleeping with his roommate.
There are also plenty of story lines focusing on solely enemies. There have been many storylines in which Peter does not have a personal connection, however, there are also plenty of storylines which he does (which, IMO, provides a better story). I'm just saying that your suggestions aren't totally inline with the source material, but I suppose my criticisms of your suggestions aren't entirely inline of the source material either.
Ock was never a bank robber. His schemes are always scientifically based. Any money he steals was always to serve a higher purpose, like in Spider-Man 2, for example.
Spidey's relationship with Ock has always been both a mental and physical challenge. And very often they reflected themes of how Spidey and Ock are mirror images of eachother. The geek gone good, and the geek gone bad.
This is one of the strengths of their relationship. Alot of it is on a conceptual level. They don't need to forge forced connections of the two characters to make it interesting. Not that Doc Ock has not messed with Peter's personal life, of course.
You're missing the point. You have to take over 50+ years of comic book history, and make a story out of it. Peter's had stories that focus on his scientific talent, his relationship with Aunt May, Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson, Harry, Gwen, MJ, Betty Brant etc. Does this mean all of those should be the focal point of his life, too? Of course not.
There has to be even distribution of these elements into Peter's story. First and foremost should be Peter's dedication to his great power with great responsibility ideals. What Raimi did wrong was that he swung that heavily on Peter's relationship with MJ.
Even the villains always had to end up putting her in danger. She always had to be at the center of Peter's crisis.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Doc Ock, Sandman etc could, and still can be, even more compelling villains on screen without any personal ties to Peter.
We have villains like The Lizard, Harry and Norman etc for that. They work because the comics have a rich history of Peter being personally conflicted with these characters.
I think we are coming to more of a consensus here. From my understanding of your comments, you were arguing for the, again, exclusion of any personal ties which, in my mind, would not include those connections. So if inclusion of those connections are still there, I agree with you - however, I do not agree that is an exclusion of personal connection.
I thought we came to a consensus on the point of the "girl-centric" portion of the story, as it should be included, but not the focal element.
I agree, but I don't think the lack of personal ties excludes instances where Parker knows the identity of the villain, the villain somehow gets involved in Parker's life (i.e., moves in with his Aunt like Ock did)
BTW - I like how this arguement is taking place between Batman and The Joker lol
I don't get what people are saying when they want Spider-Man to be a wise cracking comedian, when I thought that's what we got in the first three Spider-Man films.
It's because people want more than, what, 5 wisecracks in 2 hours. Also, most of his jokes were horrible.
These are prime examples of actually good wisecracks.
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- No more personal connections between hero and villain, aside from the Osborns.