Transformers What the Hell? Bumblebee a CAMARO!!??

[CFlash]

Again you just assume he has totally forgotten to think about it. Maybe there's an excellent reason he didn't just choose a modern compact? I mean, has anyone asked yet?

Cool factor? The Fast & The Furious factor? The appease NASCAR fans factor? Have-a-race-against-the-school-bully-and-get-the-girl factor?

I mean, what reason do you think he had?

 

[ragdus]

I agree. In a time where hot-rods were quite popular (Knight Rider, Miami Vice, The Wraith, Back to the Future), I wonder why Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky picked the little yellow minibot to be the main introductory character in Transformers. They were given free reign by Hasbro to create the "characters" and backstory.... they could have easily picked Windcharger- he was a hot-rod.

Hey you're right. They chose the little yellow mini-bot. And there's nothing to indicate they haven't chosen a little yellow minibot here either. We haven't seen his robot mode, so you have no idea what his size is going to be when he transforms. It's certainly going to be significantly smaller and crappier than a semi-truck, I assure you that.

BB was the dumpy fixer-upper who probably didn't belong but hung in there anyway because he had character, heart and fortitude. Anyone see a photo yet that suggest what it really takes to pull off BB has been stripped away? So far we've got a dumpy yellow fixer-upper. Yeah, he goes glam apparently. So did BB. So hey it's sticking to existing source material. Just not the particular material that suits you. Which is fine. They'll probably do stuff I don't like that others will. It happens. They had to make some concessions once VW but the kibosh on the Beetle idea...

 

[CFlash]

Again you just assume he has totally forgotten to think about it. Maybe there's an excellent reason he didn't just choose a modern compact? I mean, has anyone asked yet?

Cool factor? The Fast & The Furious factor? The appease NASCAR fans factor? Have-a-race-against-the-school-bully-and-get-the-girl factor?

I mean, what reason do you think he had?

 

[GhostPoet]

I always thought the VW made him look fat. =)

 

[ragdus]

Cool factor? The Fast & The Furious factor? The appease NASCAR fans factor? Have-a-race-against-the-school-bully-and-get-the-girl factor?

I mean, what reason do you think he had?

Reasons I think he had:

Modern day compact cars don't represent the character of BB in any way other than they're small. A crappy aging vehicle that can't keep up with modern day engineering does. A decrepit Camaro looks more out of place next to modern cars, trucks, tanks, jets, and so on than a brand new Toyota Yaris or Chevy Aveo. If you see these modern cars, with a crappy beat up Camaro in the mix, you look at the Camaro and think "what's that doing there?" Just like you'd think of BB when it comes time to oppose the Decepticons.

Additionally, while perhaps it would have made sense to choose another aging car model from around the same time frame to insert instead of the Beetle, I think every one of us would have sighed if Sam's new car/bot was a K car. What the beetle had that those other small cars didn't was personality in spades. Sam isn't going to fall in love with a ****ty K car. He is going to fall in love with a Camaro, no matter how crappy it is, because it can be so much more. Again, just like BB. The beat up wreck of a car that'll rise above his shortcomings to be great.

But hey maybe none of that stuff counts...

 

[CFlash]

Hey you're right. They chose the little yellow mini-bot. And there's nothing to indicate they haven't chosen a little yellow minibot here either. We haven't seen his robot mode, so you have no idea what his size is going to be when he transforms. It's certainly going to be significantly smaller and crappier than a semi-truck, I assure you that.

BB was the dumpy fixer-upper who probably didn't belong but hung in there anyway because he had character, heart and fortitude. Anyone see a photo yet that suggest what it really takes to pull off BB has been stripped away? So far we've got a dumpy yellow fixer-upper. Yeah, he goes glam apparently. So did BB. So hey it's sticking to existing source material. Just not the particular material that suits you. Which is fine. They'll probably do stuff I don't like that others will. It happens. They had to make some concessions once VW but the kibosh on the Beetle idea...

AFAIK Goldbug was still a beetle... albeit possibly a pimped up one.

Anyway, I don't think you got my point. Windcharger was a minibot as well. A Trans-am no less... so he would be attainable and "desirable" by teenagers as a junker or otherwise. Why didn't Jim Shooter and Bob Budiansky choose him?

 

[CFlash]

Reasons I think he had:

Modern day compact cars don't represent the character of BB in any way other than they're small. A crappy aging vehicle that can't keep up with modern day engineering does. A decrepit Camaro looks more out of place next to modern cars, trucks, tanks, jets, and so on than a brand new Toyota Yaris or Chevy Aveo. If you see these modern cars, with a crappy beat up Camaro in the mix, you look at the Camaro and think "what's that doing there?" Just like you'd think of BB when it comes time to oppose the Decepticons.

Additionally, while perhaps it would have made sense to choose another aging car model from around the same time frame to insert instead of the Beetle, I think every one of us would have sighed if Sam's new car/bot was a K car. What the beetle had that those other small cars didn't was personality in spades. Sam isn't going to fall in love with a ****ty K car. He is going to fall in love with a Camaro, no matter how crappy it is, because it can be so much more. Again, just like BB. The beat up wreck of a car that'll rise above his shortcomings to be great.

But hey maybe none of that stuff counts...

Good point.

Though in response to this: "Modern day compact cars don't represent the character of BB in any way other than they're small."
Well, I think mini-coopers totally represent BB.
[edit]
I do see your fixer upper point... it's a good one... though I'm not sure I prefer that to the eco-friendly theme. I guess I'm more of a hippie than a greasemonkey.

 

[WalkingDead]

Hey you're right. They chose the little yellow mini-bot. And there's nothing to indicate they haven't chosen a little yellow minibot here either. We haven't seen his robot mode, so you have no idea what his size is going to be when he transforms. It's certainly going to be significantly smaller and crappier than a semi-truck, I assure you that.

BB was the dumpy fixer-upper who probably didn't belong but hung in there anyway because he had character, heart and fortitude. Anyone see a photo yet that suggest what it really takes to pull off BB has been stripped away? So far we've got a dumpy yellow fixer-upper. Yeah, he goes glam apparently. So did BB. So hey it's sticking to existing source material. Just not the particular material that suits you. Which is fine. They'll probably do stuff I don't like that others will. It happens. They had to make some concessions once VW but the kibosh on the Beetle idea...

Reasons I think he had:

Modern day compact cars don't represent the character of BB in any way other than they're small. A crappy aging vehicle that can't keep up with modern day engineering does. A decrepit Camaro looks more out of place next to modern cars, trucks, tanks, jets, and so on than a brand new Toyota Yaris or Chevy Aveo. If you see these modern cars, with a crappy beat up Camaro in the mix, you look at the Camaro and think "what's that doing there?" Just like you'd think of BB when it comes time to oppose the Decepticons.

Additionally, while perhaps it would have made sense to choose another aging car model from around the same time frame to insert instead of the Beetle, I think every one of us would have sighed if Sam's new car/bot was a K car. What the beetle had that those other small cars didn't was personality in spades. Sam isn't going to fall in love with a ****ty K car. He is going to fall in love with a Camaro, no matter how crappy it is, because it can be so much more. Again, just like BB. The beat up wreck of a car that'll rise above his shortcomings to be great.

I totally agree with you here...totally...despite BB becoming a camero, he's still got almost all of the qualities Bumblebee always had, from what I've heard/read from the rumors.

 

[ragdus]

And the new camaro is still a camaro, just a pimped out one. and if they had permission to use a beetle in this one, he'd have been a pimped out beetle instead of that camaro.

"The original toy that became Bumblebee was originally released by Takara in 1983 as part of the Micro Change subset of the Japanese Microman line. He was released in the US in 1984."

The Beetle was chosen because they already had a toy for it. Not because he was small. Not because he had fuel economy. Not because he represented all that was good and earth friendly. They shoehorned the persona into a preexisting character.

 

[CFlash]

The original toy that became Bumblebee was originally released by Takara in 1983 as part of the Micro Change subset of the Japanese Microman line. He was released in the US in 1984."

The Beetle was chosen because they already had a toy for it. Not because he was small. Not because he had fuel economy. Not because he represented all that was good and earth friendly. They shoehorned the persona into a preexisting character.

Huh? The Takara toy that would become Windcharger existed as well. Why didn't the Marvel writers commissioned by Hasbro have Spike/Buster's first car be Windcharger? That's the question.

 

[WalkingDead]

Huh? The Takara toy that would become Windcharger existed as well. Why didn't the Marvel writers commissioned by Hasbro have Spike/Buster's first car be Windcharger? That's the question.

You know why, everyone does...

It was cause of Bumblebee's persona. If BB's personality and character traits would have been given to Windcharger or Cliffjumper or hell, even Huffer...that character would have been the human liason character. But none of those characters had BB's traits...so BB was the main human relations character. Windcharger or Cliffjumper could have had BB's persona, but they didn't. And in reality it's a great thing they didn't.

 

[CFlash]

You know why, everyone does...

It was cause of Bumblebee's persona. If BB's personality and character traits would have been given to Windcharger or Cliffjumper or hell, even Huffer...that character would have been the human liason character. But none of those characters had BB's traits...so BB was the main human relations character. Windcharger or Cliffjumper could have had BB's persona, but they didn't. And in reality it's a great thing they didn't.

Dude, the marvel guys WROTE the characters! These toys were blank slates! They could have given Windcharger "BB"'s persona!!!!!

[edit]
What I'm saying is that the writers had a set of cars to write for.
They must have said "OK, we have a Trans-am (ironically also a Camaro in some molds) and a Beetle.... pretty much the only two in the bunch that a teenager could attain. Who do we want to make the human-relate one.... and let's write his bio and the story around him."

 

[WalkingDead]

Dude, the marvel guys WROTE the characters! These toys were blank slates! They could have given Windcharger BB's persona!!!!!

Re-Read what I said...
I said EXACTLY THAT.
So calm the frig down.


To Quote Myself:

If BB's personality and character traits would have been given to Windcharger or Cliffjumper or hell, even Huffer...that character would have been the human liason character.

 

[ragdus]

I don't know. You'd have to ask Hasbro.

 

[CFlash]

And to quote myself:

What I'm saying is that the writers had a set of cars to write for.
They must have said "OK, we have a Trans-am (ironically also a Camaro in some molds) and a Beetle.... pretty much the only two in the bunch that a teenager could attain. Who do we want to make the human-relate one.... and let's write his bio and the story around him."

I'm asking you why they didn't pick Windcharger? You're assuming they had "personalities" to write around and that's why they picked BB. They didn't. These toys had no pre-written personality.

So the question is: Why the Beetle and not the Trans-am (or the Camaro).

 

[CFlash]

I don't know. You'd have to ask Hasbro.

Not Hasbro. The Marvel guys commissioned to create the bios and backstory.

 

[WalkingDead]

I don't know. You'd have to ask Hasbro.

Well according to Bob Budiansky, the guy who wrote almost all the first 3 years of Tech Specs and writer of the early TF Comics, Hasbro didn't care how Marvel did it. They just wanted characters that could be marketable for young boys so that the original toyline would sale.

Bumblebee was given his persona, like everyone else and therefore because of what type of character he was and who he was...he was the introductory character for the comics.

As for the cartoon, Optimus Prime was a bit more of the introductory character, if you watch the first 3 episodes...Prime introduces the TF's to Sparkplug and Spike. Spike also talks more about Prime than the others. It wasn't until Transformers was picked up for a Full Season, after the first 3 episodes did so well ratings-wise that Bumblebee and Spike were paired up and Bumblebee was given a more human relations stance.

 

[ragdus]

Not Hasbro. The Marvel guys commissioned to create the bios and backstory.

And assuredly Hasbro had no input. I mean, if I'm the head of a toy company, and ultimately I want to sell toys, I certainly wouldn't want one of my most friendly and engaging characters to be one that was small, easy and cheap to manufacture in mass quantities for maximum profit.

 

[ragdus]

Well according to Bob Budiansky, the guy who wrote almost all the first 3 years of Tech Specs and writer of the early TF Comics, Hasbro didn't care how Marvel did it. They just wanted characters that could be marketable for young boys so that the original toyline would sale.

But that means they did care. See my previous post to see what I mean. I'm not claiming I'm right in my speculation, because it's just that. But it's just as likely an impetus as anything else.

 

[WalkingDead]

And assuredly Hasbro had no input. I mean, if I'm the head of a toy company, and ultimately I want to sell toys, I certainly wouldn't want one of my most friendly and engaging characters to be one that was small, easy and cheap to manufacture in mass quantities for maximum profit.

If memory serves me...Hasbro developers came up with who Optimus Prime was...I know Bob Bud had no control over Prime, since Prime's character was developed BEFORE he was hired to do anything with Transformers.

Also I think Megatron was developed before Bob Bub was hired too, but Bub re-did the character traits of Megatron. Though I could be a bit mixed up on this one...but I think that's how it went.

 

[WalkingDead]

Also, as an interesting side note...

Starscream & Skywarp's Tech Spec Data Numbers were mixed up.

Thundercracker was originally Sidewinder and had totally different abilities.

Sideswipe & Sunstreaker's Tech Specs were switched, which is why they have the weapons and abilities the other should have.

Hound & Mirage's Tech Specs were also switched.

Cliffjumper was originally called Gutcruncher, but was changed literally 3 days before release.

 

[CFlash]

Well according to Bob Budiansky, the guy who wrote almost all the first 3 years of Tech Specs and writer of the early TF Comics, Hasbro didn't care how Marvel did it. They just wanted characters that could be marketable for young boys so that the original toyline would sale.

Bumblebee was given his persona, like everyone else and therefore because of what type of character he was and who he was...he was the introductory character for the comics.

As for the cartoon, Optimus Prime was a bit more of the introductory character, if you watch the first 3 episodes...Prime introduces the TF's to Sparkplug and Spike. Spike also talks more about Prime than the others. It wasn't until Transformers was picked up for a Full Season, after the first 3 episodes did so well ratings-wise that Bumblebee and Spike were paired up and Bumblebee was given a more human relations stance.

It was actually Jim Shooter that did the original treatment and backstory... though Bob Budiansky did run with it and expanded on it.

And, I'm not sure if the chicken and egg thing is correct. "Bumblebee was given his persona, like everyone else and therefore because of what type of character he was and who he was...he was the introductory character for the comics."


I don't know. BB was the introductory character because they chose to make him so and wrote his bio accordingly. Jim Shooter or Bob already had this "puzzle" and backstory put together. They easily could have chosen Windcharger, given him BB's traits and be done. But they didn't. That's my point.

 

[CFlash]

And assuredly Hasbro had no input. I mean, if I'm the head of a toy company, and ultimately I want to sell toys, I certainly wouldn't want one of my most friendly and engaging characters to be one that was small, easy and cheap to manufacture in mass quantities for maximum profit.

BB was pretty much given away for free.

 

[WalkingDead]

It was actually Jim Shooter that did the original treatment and backstory... though Bob Budiansky did run with it and expanded on it.

And, I'm not sure if the chicken and egg thing is correct. "Bumblebee was given his persona, like everyone else and therefore because of what type of character he was and who he was...he was the introductory character for the comics."


I don't know. BB was the introductory character because they chose to make him so and wrote his bio accordingly. Jim Shooter or Bob already had this "puzzle" and backstory put together. They easily could have chosen Windcharger, given him BB's traits and be done. But they didn't. That's my point.

And I NEVER argued that point with you...I've been agreeing with you. Windcharger COULD HAVE been given BB's traits, but he didn't.

And Yes...Jim Shooter came up with Cybertron, the original 4-issue story arc, the war between the two Factions, the names Autobots & Decepticons, and plotted out most of the inital 4-issue story. Bob Budiansky wrote up almost all the characters himself though.

 

[ragdus]

You know it could have been decided on a coin flip. We don't know. The big thing is that ultimately it doesn't matter. BB should be a car that a kid would love, and that love is the bridge that connects two alien races. I think the junky Camaro we see can accomplish that.

Enjoy your day all! I'll get back to tossing this hot potato tomorrow perhaps!