What was the problem with the fire bird?

[javon]

Mabe I missed something, but why didn't we get a Phoenix firebird? Did they have enough money for it? And we all know Alcatraz was the BEST part to show her doing it. I don't understand this. Why dump her firebird, which is Jeans trademark in the comics, just to give her some vainy skin which she never even does in the comics?

 

[X-Maniac]

Javon, we've discussed this about 59,000 times in other threads.

Basically, it was in the script, but they didn't have either the time, or the money, for it.

You are turning into a right old 'Moaning Minnie'....

 

[Cyrusbales]

Because they didn't want/need to make a good film. It was going to be a guarenteed hit purely on it's predecessors and the x-men fan base, so bash it out cheaply to make lotsa cash!

 

[X-Maniac]

Because they didn't want/need to make a good film. It was going to be a guarenteed hit purely on it's predecessors and the x-men fan base, so bash it out cheaply to make lotsa cash!

Of course they wanted and needed to make a good film. That's one of the most stupid things anyone has ever said on here.

Otherwise, why did they get Beast and Angel so right, why spend so much on that bridge replica?

As I said, they didn't have the time, or perhaps didn't have the money, to put it in. Which is a terrible shame.

But it has nothing to do with them sitting there and saying 'Yes, let's make a really bad film that upsets people'. You fool.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Well they didn't need to make a good film. As this was very much a studio film, they wanted money for it, and beast and angel were accurate because they were the major pullers in the trailers, phoenix wasn't accurate because it would be too expensive and they didn't need to show it in the trailers to reel people in

 

[X-Maniac]

Well they didn't need to make a good film. As this was very much a studio film, they wanted money for it, and beast and angel were accurate because they were the major pullers in the trailers, phoenix wasn't accurate because it would be too expensive and they didn't need to show it in the trailers to reel people in

I don't think so. The Phoenix effect turned out to be something they couldn't do later on - as they were purely visual FX added in post-production.

They used money on the prosthetics etc of Angel and Beast and on building that bridge.

Part of the script clearly mentions a firebird, but parts of the script were cut (as always happens) and when it came to adding in the FX, they didn't use the firebird - either no time, or no budget for it.

We should have had that firebird, and some of us are living in hope that it will be on the DVD...but somehow I doubt it.

 

[ntcrawler]

We should have had that firebird, and some of us are living in hope that it will be on the DVD...but somehow I doubt it.

There's nothing you can do. The movie is finished, has been released, and the DVD's have already been pressed. Don't hold your hopes too high only to have them crushed, expect nothing and therefore what little you do get will be a blessing

 

[X-Maniac]

There's nothing you can do. The movie is finished, has been released, and the DVD's have already been pressed. Don't hold your hopes too high only to have them crushed, expect nothing and therefore what little you do get will be a blessing

That's the sort of thing I normally say...

 

[ntcrawler]

Well they didn't need to make a good film.

this wasn't so much treated as a film but more as a business investment. X amount of money put in = Y amount of money put out. Cost vs profit, expenses vs net income, profit margin ratios, etc. If the numbers work right, the movie is a success and good. Golden Gate more important than Phoenix effect (pesky little detail. I still don't get why that alternate persona calls itself Phoenix, it certainly had nothing to do with life or power, being reborn, or even fire for that matter, just an angry little thing that wants to blow up the world. Should have called itself "weasel" instead), "Juggernaut, *****!" more attention gripping than "I dunno" Alkali Lake dialogue.

 

[X-Maniac]

this wasn't so much treated as a film but more as a business investment. X amount of money put in = Y amount of money put out. Cost vs profit, expenses vs net income, profit margin ratios, etc. If the numbers work right, the movie is a success and good. Golden Gate more important than Phoenix effect (pesky little detail. I still don't get why that alternate persona calls itself Phoenix, it certainly had nothing to do with life or power, being reborn, or even fire for that matter, just an angry little thing that wants to blow up the world. Should have called itself "weasel" instead), "Juggernaut, *****!" more attention gripping than "I dunno" Alkali Lake dialogue.

I agree the 'I don't know' was a bit poor...

She might have instead said (if we are using the mental blocks thing used later on in the movie):

JEAN [spoken with hesitation]
'I'm not sure. Something in my mind, immense power, it saved me. I couldn't hold the water back any more, I thought it was the end, then I felt it... as the water crashed down. It...was free."

 

[Mistopurr83]

Didn't Simon Kinberg say on an interview it was b/c it wouldn't have fit the tone of the films? I remember him saying this on some interview and I think that reason is BS.

 

[ntcrawler]

JEAN [spoken with hesitation]
'I'm not sure. Something in my mind, immense power, it saved me. I couldn't hold the water back any more, I thought it was the end, then I felt it... as the water crashed down. It...was free."

Yeah, yeah, or if it doesn't involve mental blocks, like this:

[talking in a somewhat distant, ethereal tone]

Jean:
I remember... the plane. There was water, a mountain
of water. I was outside. It was coming down on me, and...

[after a moment of hesitation in which everything levitating around them shakes and after a little comforting from Scott]

Jean
Then things went... dark. Not awake, not asleep. I
remember calling out to you. And then, I felt you were
close, and the world became clear again. Sensing your strong,
solid mind helped to pull me out of the void

 

[CB Fan]

Could it be that a fire bird doesn't look as good as you might think? As in they tried it but no matter how they put it it just could'nt be done right,so they went with (what I call)the "demonic" look. Thats what I like to believe.
Its sorta like with all "The Thing" fans...they all want an eyebrow on him but Tim said he tried and it really doesnt look as good as you might think.So thats my story for why there was no fire bird effect.

 

[ntcrawler]

Could it be that a fire bird doesn't look as good as you might think? As in they tried it but no matter how they put it it just could'nt be done right,so they went with (what I call)the "demonic" look. Thats what I like to believe.

I dunno. Some of the members here managed to construct a decent looking firebird effect on their home computers in a couple of hours, like The Ones. If he can do it, why can't a fully paid professional equipped with state of the art video servers and cutting edge custom-designed software? Then again, that's like comparing the space progrem. Spaceship: One. NASA: zero

 

[chaseter]

Jean had the power of fire...as seen at the end of X2...she had a fire aura. Well she died and layed in a lake for quiet a while. Phoenix was then born from water. Phoenix looked like a lady that had been rotting in a lake for a month...freaky as hell. I think it would have confused the casual viewer thinking if she came from the lake...why does she have fire. I think if the Phoenix had been a spectacular fire being...great...but then again they don't want to mix each character's powers. I think it was fine.

 

[CB Fan]

ntcrawler which thread is The Ones work at(his pheonix) I would like to see it...not challenging you or any thing I just would like to see it.

 

[ntcrawler]

Jean had the power of fire...as seen at the end of X2...she had a fire aura. Well she died and layed in a lake for quiet a while. Phoenix was then born from water. Phoenix looked like a lady that had been rotting in a lake for a month...

Then why did it insist on calling itself "Phoenix"? (last time I checked, Phoenix was born from fire, not from water. Water puts out fire. Apparently since water puts out fire, it put out the fire effects too). It should have called itself "Swamp Thing" or "Cesspool Girl"

Either way it certainly corrupted the jean pool

 

[Goddessreicho]

Then why did it insist on calling itself "Phoenix"? (last time I checked, Phoenix was born from fire, not from water. Water puts out fire. Apparently since water puts out fire, it put out the fire effects too). It should have called itself "Swamp Thing" or "Cesspool Girl"

Either way it certainly corrupted the jean pool

LOL Jean pool! So clever. I once had an anime parody and its sequel tell me that water plus fire = steam.

Hense forth I shall refer to X-movie Jean as Steamy the Lather Rinse Repeat Ressurection Machine!

 

[Psionic Force]

Why do you feel the need to start a thread about this when there are plenty of others to talk about it?

 

[ntcrawler]

Hense forth I shall refer to X-movie Jean as Steamy the Lather Rinse Repeat Ressurection Machine!

Disclaimer: Good for one resurrection only.


The real Phoenix: "born of fire, I am life incarnate"

X3 Phoenix: "born of water, I am PMS incarnate"

 

[Mother_Askani]

The Phoenix Effect is the major part of the Phoenix. Without it, Phoenix is not Phoenix.

It amazes me at how much time/effort/money is put into filming these huge fight scenes that are entirely too long.

They could have at least had the glowing Phoenix symbol over Jean's eye, like Rachel currently has and Jean had briefly during Claremont's 2nd stint.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

That would have been cool to see...

 

[The Original Bamfer]

A lot of the "fire effect" used was to visually represent Jean's telekinesis, save of course for the actual "fire bird" representation. In early incarnations, Phoenix mostly held the fiery aura, where as Dark Phoenix usually had a darker one, but still showcased the fiery beams when using TK.

Much like some comic interpretations of Dark Phoenix, the "fire bird" was used for Phoenix as a symbol of light, and a much darker aura for Dark Phoenix to show the drastic differences between them. I think the movie went for a very similar representation. The veiny, creepy look probably came from Dark Phoenix's first appearances where she looked emaciated and bony. And, when we all get the DVD, you should check out Jean's eyes when they go "black." As I spotted when the first preview of X3 with her and Magneto in the woods, Her eyes aren't solid black - there is a dull orange/yellow flame in them.



Yeah, when we usually think of any incarnation/interpretation of Phoenix/Dark Phoenix, we picture the fire bird. But it makes a much better contrast with the Darker Look they gave her in X3, which is more comic-literate than what most think.

 

[BMM]

Blah . . . the Phoenix effect should have been in The Last Stand plain and simple. It is Phoenix/Dark Phoenix's defining power signature and has been inherent to the character since her inception. It absolutely fits with what is established in the previous films, as the Phoenix effect begins emanating from Jean during her final moments at Alkali Lake, and is shown emerging in all of its potential glory in the final scene of X2.

Its absence is the product of bullheadedness and subsequent rushing.

 

[ntcrawler]

Blah . . . the Phoenix effect should have been in The Last Stand plain and simple. It is Phoenix/Dark Phoenix's defining power signature and has been inherent to the character since her inception. It absolutely fits with what is established in the previous films, as the Phoenix effect begins emanating from Jean during her final moments at Alkali Lake, and is shown emerging in all of its potential glory in the final scene of X2.

Its absence is the product of bullheadedness and subsequent rushing.

You heard what they just argued in previous posts. The waters from Alkali Lake put her fires out.

Now it's a phoenix borne of water, and not of fire. No doubt what is meant by that "new interpretation" concept

double blah