What would ruin,.. or what HAS ruined a hero for You?

[PhotoJones]

That's why Tony likes her so much.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

****s stick together.

 

[PhotoJones]

It's a rule.

 

[moraldeficiency]

How is Hank a dick? He's been a perfectly normal, decent guy for most of his existence. If we take out his hitting her during a major mental breakdown, Jan was more of a ***** than Hank was a dick, to be honest. She flirted shamelessly with every other Avenger all the time.

I just got that feeling from him. In ItA he's definately got some @ickish qualities. (remember the evil nazi's "I worship Hank Pym speech"). He was definately a dick in Civil War between ratting Cap out when he came to him for help, creating Clor with Tony and Reed, and just general dickish behavior thoughout. I guess the thing with the marriage is that Pym and Jan just didn't really click, he always seemed more self obsessed with his own genius (contrast that with reed and sue which have a similiar thing but sue is the thing reed needs most and he always remembers that even if it takes him a while.)

Just my thoughts...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You're citing a bunch of stuff that's recent. Hank's been pretty FUBAR'd recently. I'm talking about his life up to a few arcs before Disassembled. He was a decent guy for most of that. Self-absorbed at times, sure, but he was usually pretty good to Jan, much like Reed and Sue. When Johns put him back in the Yellowjacket costume, I think Hank began to crash and burn. He's been getting worse ever since.

 

[PhotoJones]

Slott's been letting him shine here and there.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A bit. But it's still in the context of the post-Civil War Hank, who's kind of a mouthpiece for the Initiative's agenda. He's very wrapped up in a lot of the bad that Civil War exposed in a lot of heroes.

 

[moraldeficiency]

You're citing a bunch of stuff that's recent. Hank's been pretty FUBAR'd recently. I'm talking about his life up to a few arcs before Disassembled. He was a decent guy for most of that. Self-absorbed at times, sure, but he was usually pretty good to Jan, much like Reed and Sue. When Johns put him back in the Yellowjacket costume, I think Hank began to crash and burn. He's been getting worse ever since.

I agree it's more recent, and I said before that it was just a feeling I got. I've known those self absorbed in my work types and generally speaking they're just kinda *****. I don't think they had nearly the emotional level of the relationship Reed and Sue have. I don't mind him as a dick though, so don't misunderstand me. All this time as a superpowered being with one of the highest intellect levels on earth would make the vast majority of people into self absorbed *****.

 

[moraldeficiency]

A bit. But it's still in the context of the post-Civil War Hank, who's kind of a mouthpiece for the Initiative's agenda. He's very wrapped up in a lot of the bad that Civil War exposed in a lot of heroes.

He is the poster child "man of the year" for the iniative.

 

[Kitsune]

Yes I do. Thor's cool don't get me wrong, but if you actually look at a lot of the stories loki is kinda inbetween on most issues. He actually saves a lot of people (children especially) by outwitting his opponents rather than just doing the whole "I'm a god, my will be done" thing. I was a pretty big fan of norse culture growing up and they prized two things above all else: bravery and cunning (not just intellect but wit and guile). The only thing more honorable than defeating your opponent in close combat was to defeat them utterly with your mind without raising your hand at all.

Plus I generally empathasize more with the villian than the hero.

I liked the JMS Spider-Man stories.. with Loki in them. I always though Loki would respect Peter's whit and cunning, if not his sense of humor.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I liked the JMS Spider-Man stories.. with Loki in them. I always though Loki would respect Peter's whit and cunning, if not his sense of humor.

Agreed, I think they'd get along too, except for the killing stuff.

 

[lou2099]

I just didn't like Peter Parker threatening to kill the Kingpin. Sure it was a justified threat, but I wanted it to be a bluff.

 

[Anubis]

It is a bluff. Parker's full of s**t.

 

[Canemacar]

Spider-man: If the rumors about the One More Day storyline are true, then I'd lose all respect for the franchise and Joe's stewardship of Marvel.

Thor: If JMS tries to screw with the core concept of the character as much as he did with Spidey, I'm likely to stop caring.

Wolverine: Make him effectively immortal, ditch all his efforts to tame the rage inside him, abandon character development, give him a stupid origin, and have him join every team under the sun. Basically, whats happened to him since Claremont's original work has caused me to lose interest.

Silver Surfer: Losing the character's benevolence and pacifism would be taking away a crucial element of the character IMO.

Ultimates: Being written by Loeb.

Xavier: Any more "Dark secret" retcons. At this point I'm not even sure if the X-men have the moral high-ground against their "villains".

Gambit: Already happened. There was too much angst and drama in the soap opera romance with Rogue and the character was neutered as a result.

 

[PhotoJones]

Spider-man: If the rumors about the One More Day storyline are true, then I'd lose all respect for the franchise and Joe's stewardship of Marvel.

Thor: If JMS tries to screw with the core concept of the character as much as he did with Spidey, I'm likely to stop caring.

Wolverine: Make him effectively immortal, ditch all his efforts to tame the rage inside him, abandon character development, give him a stupid origin, and have him join every team under the sun. Basically, whats happened to him since Claremont's original work has caused me to lose interest.

Silver Surfer: Losing the character's benevolence and pacifism would be taking away a crucial element of the character IMO.

Ultimates: Being written by Loeb.

Xavier: Any more "Dark secret" retcons. At this point I'm not even sure if the X-men have the moral high-ground against their "villains".

Gambit: Already happened. There was too much angst and drama in the soap opera romance with Rogue and the character was neutered as a result.

You have good opinions. I agree with 90% of that.

 

[Super Mark]

Captain America being shot dead by a sniper kind of ruined him for me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He'll be back.

I still don't get how JMS screwed with the core of Spider-Man, but I guess that's just me.

 

[PhotoJones]

He was probably referring to the totem stuff.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I figured. That was a big topic in the Spider-Man forums when it happened, but I never had a problem with it. JMS wrote it so that it could easily be looked at as coincidence, which is what I view it as, or merely another layer to Spider-Man's mythos. You can take it or leave it, really.

 

[PhotoJones]

That's pretty much how I look at it, too. The original question of what the spider's intentions were when it bit Peter was an interesting one.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought so. I liked that JMS let you decide the answer for yourself, too.

 

[PhotoJones]

Plus, Eliyja was a nice addition to the cast while he lasted.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You mean Ezekiel?

 

[PhotoJones]

Sweet lord. Yes, I meant Ezekiel. Where the hell did I get Eliyja from?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A handbook of biblical names starting with E?