What would ruin,.. or what HAS ruined a hero for You?

[chamber-music]

The Grant Morrison 2001 New X Men era where there was suddenly millions of mutants which lead to the terrible House Of M where Marvel made loads of them lose their powers. Also most of the characters that came up from that era ended up as canon fodder when ever some writer wanted to kill some mutants. The Whole thing was a mess and ruined the X Men for me for some time.

Turning my Chamber into Decible and making him a look like a mini Apocalypse was also quite lame.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I was saying a lot of villains start as canon fodder. Then they're given purposes later. Think about how many Stan Lee villains just started out with a goal to rule the world, and nothing else.

Ah. Adding a backstory and changing who they are: two different things. I'm talking like, we wake up tomorrow and Captain America acts like The Punisher. That's the stuff I mean, when they just pull a 180 on who the character is. Something like that happens, I might stop reading.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Ah. Adding a backstory and changing who they are: two different things. I'm talking like, we wake up tomorrow and Captain America acts like The Punisher. That's the stuff I mean, when they just pull a 180 on who the character is. Something like that happens, I might stop reading.

A lot of times, as I think Kang is trying to point out, that backstory is a 180'. I mean Gladiator, for example, went from a guy who just didn't like costumed adventurers, to a sympathetic villain. Magneto went from a dime store Dr.Doom to a person who wanted to eradicate the human race for mutant prosperity. Then of course the argument over whether Green Goblin should be a two-bit criminal or a personal acquaintance of Peter's gone mad.

 

[Ass Assassin]

Captain America packing heat

 

[Xofenroht]

It's not Steve Rogers.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

The Avengers,because..well people see it for themselfs.

I stoped reading X-Men because writers don't know how to handle the stories.

Spider-Man has been in a rut for a very..very long time.

Sentry
Boycotted for a stupid character that doesn't do anything.

That is the truth.

 

[Steve Rogers]

A lot of times, as I think Kang is trying to point out, that backstory is a 180'. I mean Gladiator, for example, went from a guy who just didn't like costumed adventurers, to a sympathetic villain. Magneto went from a dime store Dr.Doom to a person who wanted to eradicate the human race for mutant prosperity. Then of course the argument over whether Green Goblin should be a two-bit criminal or a personal acquaintance of Peter's gone mad.

Maybe all that is true, but I also don't read titles for the villains. I read Cap for Steve Rogers, Daredevil for Matt Murdock and so on. I don't read them for Skull and The Kingpin. So, as long as the main character, the one I read every month, as long as he doesn't do a 180, I'm cool with it.

 

[K.B.]

The Grant Morrison 2001 New X Men era where there was suddenly millions of mutants which lead to the terrible House Of M where Marvel made loads of them lose their powers. Also most of the characters that came up from that era ended up as canon fodder when ever some writer wanted to kill some mutants. The Whole thing was a mess and ruined the X Men for me for some time.

Grant Morrisons New X-men was pure genius and whatever writers and marve ldid to screw with his stuff AFTER he left isn't his problem or reflective of his run.

 

[Ass Assassin]

It's not Steve Rogers.

He's still rockin the shield. And what that symbolized don't go hand and hand with a gun. But that's just my opinion. Hell, maybe it'll even turn into a worthwhile story-arc, who knows.

 

[K.B.]

Ummm you DO realize that Brubaker has written Cap the best he has been in YEARS,right?

 

[roach]

You do realize Cap used a gun several times during WW2

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You realize that his regard for lethal force has gone down to almost nonexistent since coming into the modern age, right? Before Brubaker started bringing it back, at least.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Maybe all that is true, but I also don't read titles for the villains. I read Cap for Steve Rogers, Daredevil for Matt Murdock and so on. I don't read them for Skull and The Kingpin. So, as long as the main character, the one I read every month, as long as he doesn't do a 180, I'm cool with it.

Heroes aren't much different. Compare sixties era DareDevil to modern era or Frank Miller era, and it's starkly contrasting.

 

[Steve Rogers]

Heroes aren't much different. Compare sixties era DareDevil to modern era or Frank Miller era, and it's starkly contrasting.

Which is one of the reasons I don't like the old comics. Too hokey. Everyone got pissed at me because I said I didn't like Silver Age stuff.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, it is kind of like disregarding where the characters came from.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Which is one of the reasons I don't like the old comics. Too hokey. Everyone got pissed at me because I said I didn't like Silver Age stuff.

Well, that's not really what I meant. In this case, yes, Silver Age DareDevil was hokey and (IMO) poorly written, however, hokey has nothing to do with it. My point was the nature of the character changed. DareDevil was at one point "the merry swashbuckler", a 'careless' (more than fearless) adventurer who had no problem lying, tricking or playing pranks on both his enemies or friends. He was wisecracking, sarcastic and arrogant.

When Frank Miller wrote him he became a ninja, someone who had excellent training and discipline...arguably discipline was an aspect lacking from the original. He became more brooding and silent, more reserved and cunning. In his early days he used to joke about how much he talked...even once admitting he ought to become 'the silent type'. So this was a major shift...and as usual, in Marvel's continuity, the story was written in such a way to assume this had always been the case.

 

[K.B.]

There's a lot more books I wish I had walked away from but didn't like Milligans X-men, Austins Uncanny,BKV's ultimate x-men

 

[Steve Rogers]

Well, it is kind of like disregarding where the characters came from.

Huh do you figure? Just because I wouldn't like to live in the Jurassic period doesn't mean I disregard where the dinosaurs came from, all it means is I don't like it. I don't like the way the old stuff was written. I know the backstories of the characters though. I don't disregard them because I don't like the way stuff used to be written.

 

[Varient]

I'm happy that we are typing about it and not arguing about it.
Agreeing to disagree on what Sucks,... I love it.

On topic:The majority of what would ruin it where "Drastic Character changes"

But strangely enough The majority of DID ruin it were storylines where the main character didn't change but the situation was just too much to bear,
(Clone saga anyone?)

 

[sandwraith]

Agent Zero. It was a terrible series that killed one of the few Jim Lee characters with a decent backstory. Maverick in my mind has always been an underused, under appreciated character. Yeah, his design is boderline ridiculous but his backstory is great, and in his mini back when he had the Legacy virus was great. Heck he's a guy who shot and killed his own brother to save both Logan and Creed during the Cold War, something Logan mentioned that he respects.

What has happend to him now???? Limbo trash...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm happy that we are typing about it and not arguing about it.
Agreeing to disagree on what Sucks,... I love it.

On topic:The majority of what would ruin it where "Drastic Character changes"

But strangely enough The majority of DID ruin it were storylines where the main character didn't change but the situation was just too much to bear,
(Clone saga anyone?)

The main character changed into a totally different character in that.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I'm happy that we are typing about it and not arguing about it.
Agreeing to disagree on what Sucks,... I love it.

On topic:The majority of what would ruin it where "Drastic Character changes"

But strangely enough The majority of DID ruin it were storylines where the main character didn't change but the situation was just too much to bear,
(Clone saga anyone?)

Pete pimp slapping MJ (don't own it, didn't read it, I mainly ignore it) was a bit of a character change in the Clone saga.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Changes don't ever ruin a character; bad writing does.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

If Clor were actually Thor, that'd be a change that would kill the character for me.

 

[Varient]

The main character changed into a totally different character in that.

Nope.
Peter stayed peter,.. EVEN when he thought he was the clone. He reacted to the thought of being the Clone in a definite Peter Parker way, He Bowed out gracefully from being Spiderman W/O fuss,.. And only on Ben Reilly's death was it determined that he was the original.