what would you like to see in season 2 of Wolverine and the X-Men

[Panthro]

Definitely. To play Devil's Advocate, in all three X-Men cartoons so far, regardless of whatever has been done with Cyclops; either the stoic (and sometimes stiff) leader in the 90's series, the heroic everyman in Evolution, or the sad sack basket case in W&TXM, Cyclops has always been a major character. Regardless of how I criticize how the writers wrote or utilized Cyclops in W&TXM, by the season finale he still got some 3 episodes of focus, as much as Nightcrawler and Rogue got. Chump or not, his subplot still ended up having a lot to do with the main story. Heck, you could argue in even the late 80's animation that the X-Men popped up in, Cyclops was always there.

Colossus, though, usually is either a non-entity or simply seen as a visual. I don't blame the 90's cartoon for nixing him from the main cast; they were using characters that were then well known in the 90's X-MEN series with Jim Lee, and Colossus' prime more or less ended in the 80's (some would argue the 70's). They also were the trend-setter series, and he still had two well written guest episodes; same as Nightcrawler had. I have less sympathy for X-MEN EVOLUTION pooching him, though, especially since he easily could have filled the roster spot in the starting cast from the creator-invented Spyke. When he finally did show up, he had a cool design and probably a fine voice actor (who was given little to do in the role), but he was a non-entity. Nothing but a visual or vague hints at a subplot, Colossus usually got trashed in every outing he had; Blob likely came off looking tougher.

Considering WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN was focusing on Wolverine, I would argue that Colossus had more reason to be more of a presence here. In the comics, he always got along well with Logan and Nightcrawler. C'mon, the Fastball Special, anyone? Instead, he's chumped in the pilot and that's it. Y'know who got to do the Fastball Special. BLOB. People bash Brett Ratner for X-MEN 3, but he had not one, but TWO genuine Fastball Specials in his mess-terpiece. And the irony is the character dynamic could have worked well; Piotr was often written as the stoic, sensitive "good guy", not too far removed from Clark Kent in some ways, just Russian and with fewer powers. At the start of the season where Wolverine and Beast were trying to seek out other X-Men and convince them to return, it might have been interesting having Colossus return. But, the road not taken.

The show's writers have quite a task in Season 2 to flesh out some of the established characters like Iceman, Storm, and Kitty, so I don't expect then to do much with the metal man. I merely wish they'd stop sticking him into promotional art and trailers for the show, since it seems almost like false advertising.

Kind of makes one wonder if they've got a vendetta against Colossus, doesn't it?

 

[Dread]

Dread,

If I see any of the Marvel animation crew at Con, one of my first questions will be about Colossus.

Though keep in mind we probably won't hear much about season 2 for a while since NickToons is being super stingy in airing season 1.

I understand. Hell, I think in this very thread I noted it would be unlikely that we even got a teaser for W&TXM Season 2 until late this year at the earliest. Stingy NickToons or not it can take over a year for finished animation to come back from overseas sometimes.

On the plus side, Jim Ward, who I believe plays Xavier in W&TXM, was supposedly credited with voicing Colossus in "FORESIGHT PART ONE" so if Colossus does return, they won't have to cast anyone extra.

Kind of makes one wonder if they've got a vendetta against Colossus, doesn't it?

I wouldn't go so far as to say "vendetta". I do believe they face the same issues as many comic book writers do with him. Namely, that they feel that he was "innovative" in the Cold War era when Russians were still very much seen as villains in America so the idea of a selfless heroic Russian hero was still unique. After the fall of the USSR in 1990-1991, though, this became less so. Russia at best is a "frenemy" to America now, but it's hardly the Cold War. There are probably more Russian immigrants in America now than in the 70's or 80's so they usually no longer count as an "extra minority figure on a superhero team" as much as other ethnic characters are (Asians, African-Americans, Hispanics, etc.). I mean back in 1975, the "new" X-Men team was heralded for having members from various countries; Ireland, Russia, Germany, Canada, and Africa. Nowadays, though, Irish and Russian characters aren't as "astounding"; after all, Marvel made a big stink when Arana, who is a Latina, starred in her own book for a while. There also may be a feeling of "white is white", regardless of whether someone is from America or Europe (or Asia; Russia is a large chunk of Asia) in terms of superhero ethnicities, but I digress. At the very least, we are more used to multi-ethnic and racial teams of heroes now than we were in 1975.

Colossus in some ways has fared poorly since the end of the Cold War, since evil Soviet stories were ore for many of his specific plots. Once the Soviet era ended, it was at best seen as "old timer" to still do "evil Russian" stories, although that still does happen. On top of this, since the 80's, the X-Men are a franchise where anti-hero characters have risen as what is seen as "cool" and what gets focus. Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, Bishop, Cable, Deadpool, etc. Hell, Cyclops was all but made an anti-hero in W&TXM as the big bold thing. Colossus doesn't work in that mold, and because of that he is seen as "stiff". He also fares the poorest in solo stories without the other X-Men, and sometimes being a character who cannot stand well for solo stories long is seen as a major flaw and a reason to omit them.

On top of that, for a "big man", Colossus seems to get his butt kicked, A LOT, in many comics stories. While when the Thing occasionally gets pounded and is seen as tough for still trying (like Rocky Balboa), I think many writers see Colossus as a paper tiger and usually make him the quickest falling 85 ton tanker hero ever. The irony is I think some executives and editors misunderstand that while Colossus is hardly the most popular X-Man, he likely is more well known to the average person than many others. Most schmucks on the street likely would know him better than, say, Iceman or Angel.

I believe many insiders love his design. But it's being able to get the character and make said character work in their cast and still be appealing, is what perplexes them. Again, it's not simply that TV writers struggle, many comic ones do, too. The problem is the longer it lingers, the worse it gets. Personally, I thought Colossus always worked well on a team book as being the naive, somewhat optimistic and stoic "good guy" who was of course seeing the world had plenty of darkness as well as gray areas to overcome. He was a guy raised on strong farm values who became a man of steel; just in Russia and not Kansas.

At the very least in terms of W&TXM, it isn't as if Colossus has been written as a selfish, weak willed, emotional basket case like Cyclops has. He's just been missing. He'd have nothing to have to make up for; a few decent action sequences and smashed stuff, and he'd be set. The question would be if the storyboard crew could pull that off. This is, again, the first X-Men team I have ever seen that completely and utterly botched Juggernaut. I mean Botched. I've seen Blob look more impressive.

 

[Panthro]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "vendetta". I do believe they face the same issues as many comic book writers do with him. Namely, that they feel that he was "innovative" in the Cold War era when Russians were still very much seen as villains in America so the idea of a selfless heroic Russian hero was still unique. After the fall of the USSR in 1990-1991, though, this became less so. Russia at best is a "frenemy" to America now, but it's hardly the Cold War. There are probably more Russian immigrants in America now than in the 70's or 80's so they usually no longer count as an "extra minority figure on a superhero team" as much as other ethnic characters are (Asians, African-Americans, Hispanics, etc.). I mean back in 1975, the "new" X-Men team was heralded for having members from various countries; Ireland, Russia, Germany, Canada, and Africa. Nowadays, though, Irish and Russian characters aren't as "astounding"; after all, Marvel made a big stink when Arana, who is a Latina, starred in her own book for a while. There also may be a feeling of "white is white", regardless of whether someone is from America or Europe (or Asia; Russia is a large chunk of Asia) in terms of superhero ethnicities, but I digress. At the very least, we are more used to multi-ethnic and racial teams of heroes now than we were in 1975.

Colossus in some ways has fared poorly since the end of the Cold War, since evil Soviet stories were ore for many of his specific plots. Once the Soviet era ended, it was at best seen as "old timer" to still do "evil Russian" stories, although that still does happen. On top of this, since the 80's, the X-Men are a franchise where anti-hero characters have risen as what is seen as "cool" and what gets focus. Wolverine, Rogue, Gambit, Bishop, Cable, Deadpool, etc. Hell, Cyclops was all but made an anti-hero in W&TXM as the big bold thing. Colossus doesn't work in that mold, and because of that he is seen as "stiff". He also fares the poorest in solo stories without the other X-Men, and sometimes being a character who cannot stand well for solo stories long is seen as a major flaw and a reason to omit them.

On top of that, for a "big man", Colossus seems to get his butt kicked, A LOT, in many comics stories. While when the Thing occasionally gets pounded and is seen as tough for still trying (like Rocky Balboa), I think many writers see Colossus as a paper tiger and usually make him the quickest falling 85 ton tanker hero ever. The irony is I think some executives and editors misunderstand that while Colossus is hardly the most popular X-Man, he likely is more well known to the average person than many others. Most schmucks on the street likely would know him better than, say, Iceman or Angel.

I believe many insiders love his design. But it's being able to get the character and make said character work in their cast and still be appealing, is what perplexes them. Again, it's not simply that TV writers struggle, many comic ones do, too. The problem is the longer it lingers, the worse it gets. Personally, I thought Colossus always worked well on a team book as being the naive, somewhat optimistic and stoic "good guy" who was of course seeing the world had plenty of darkness as well as gray areas to overcome. He was a guy raised on strong farm values who became a man of steel; just in Russia and not Kansas.

At the very least in terms of W&TXM, it isn't as if Colossus has been written as a selfish, weak willed, emotional basket case like Cyclops has. He's just been missing. He'd have nothing to have to make up for; a few decent action sequences and smashed stuff, and he'd be set. The question would be if the storyboard crew could pull that off. This is, again, the first X-Men team I have ever seen that completely and utterly botched Juggernaut. I mean Botched. I've seen Blob look more impressive.

Vendetta wasn't the right word, I apologize. But I think you've hit the nail on the head, as usual.

Hopefully, one day we'll get an X-Men writing team that finds a way to do justice to Colossus.

 

[Dread]

http://www.newsarama.com/tv/090724-sdcc09-marvel-animation.html

Latest news about Season 2 from SDCC:

Spoiler

Havok, Deadpool, Magik, and Colossus are supposedly coming in for Season 2. Of course, Colossus technically showed up enough in Season 1 to warrant endless shots in commercials and on promo art, so I won't hold my breathe until he actually has a relevant episode. But still, latest news!

 

[Mad Ones]

Spoiler

The fact that Magik is also in this season makes me think that Colossus will get at least one focus episode. Hopefully it won't all be in Russia, and that he at least joins the X-men again at some point.

 

[Panthro]

Colossus and Havok could both use some serious air time.

 

[Dread]

Spoiler

To be frank, plenty of characters in Season One barely got any fleshing, namely Iceman, Storm, and maybe to a lessor extent Forge, Beast, and Shadowcat. Adding more characters, even fan fave ones, may not do much to help the situations. Too often with X-Men shows and movies, the focus is on throwing in as many mutants as possible, not on fleshing all of them well. Those who disliked JLU said that it usually did stuff similar to that. Iceman in this show can't even claim to have gotten as much focus as Booster Gold or Wildcat got in JLU.

Having Magik does seem to hint at something with Colossus; on the other hand, it could simply be a cameo. Hellion showed up in Season One, and he usually did nothing but provide some glowy stuff in fights, and was completely forgotten by the end. While it is interesting news, Season One wasn't so excellent that I'll give the show much benefit of the doubt until I see more Season Two.

Colossus' finest animated half hour is still "RED DAWN", circa 1994. Which is damn sad.

Havok has had an even worse animated history than Colossus; at least Colossus always shows up for a cameo episode in every X-Men cartoon since the 80's. Havok has one episode in the 90's and the Evolution surfer version voiced by Matt Hill was just a misfire, "bro". Actually, if written well, Havok could be interesting in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN if they played him as the opposite of Cyclops in this show. Instead of being selfish, he's selfless. Instead of being emotionally weak, he is well put together. Instead of being rivals with Wolverine, he's friends with him (as he was in the comics). Instead of failing to be of any use in a battle, Havok is practically a one man hero. It could provide some interesting drama, Cyclops being the one jealous of Alex in this show, rather than the other way around like in the comics. Again, it's a bit late to try to redeem Cyclops at this point, so they may as well work with what he's become.

 

[Panthro]

Spoiler

To be frank, plenty of characters in Season One barely got any fleshing, namely Iceman, Storm, and maybe to a lessor extent Forge, Beast, and Shadowcat. Adding more characters, even fan fave ones, may not do much to help the situations. Too often with X-Men shows and movies, the focus is on throwing in as many mutants as possible, not on fleshing all of them well. Those who disliked JLU said that it usually did stuff similar to that. Iceman in this show can't even claim to have gotten as much focus as Booster Gold or Wildcat got in JLU.

Having Magik does seem to hint at something with Colossus; on the other hand, it could simply be a cameo. Hellion showed up in Season One, and he usually did nothing but provide some glowy stuff in fights, and was completely forgotten by the end. While it is interesting news, Season One wasn't so excellent that I'll give the show much benefit of the doubt until I see more Season Two.

Colossus' finest animated half hour is still "RED DAWN", circa 1994. Which is damn sad.

Havok has had an even worse animated history than Colossus; at least Colossus always shows up for a cameo episode in every X-Men cartoon since the 80's. Havok has one episode in the 90's and the Evolution surfer version voiced by Matt Hill was just a misfire, "bro". Actually, if written well, Havok could be interesting in WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN if they played him as the opposite of Cyclops in this show. Instead of being selfish, he's selfless. Instead of being emotionally weak, he is well put together. Instead of being rivals with Wolverine, he's friends with him (as he was in the comics). Instead of failing to be of any use in a battle, Havok is practically a one man hero. It could provide some interesting drama, Cyclops being the one jealous of Alex in this show, rather than the other way around like in the comics. Again, it's a bit late to try to redeem Cyclops at this point, so they may as well work with what he's become.

Once again Dread, you make very good points (and yes, JLU was guilty of that). And Dazzler's probably had even worse luck in animation than Havok.

You know, I actually wouldn't mind an X-Men animated series comprised of lesser known characters like Havok, Polaris, Dazzler, etc., and let the more iconic characters take a break. Rogue, Beast, Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, Gambit and Storm have all been in 3 cartoons thus far, with Nightcrawler & Kitty being regulars in two, it wouldn't hurt to let some other characters have a turn.

 

[Nature's Rising]

^ The question is, could they carry a show? A lot of viewers (non X-fans) barely know any of those guys.The could be added behind a show with Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Jean, Rogue, etc. but never ever have their own shows.

Although come to think of it, if they package the current X-Factor as what it is in the comics, it could actually work. Investigation agency dealing on mysterious stuff yada yada, could work. But having a storyline same as any X-Men cartoons but have lesser popular characters ain't going to work.

 

[x-men_pro]

http://www.newsarama.com/tv/090724-sdcc09-marvel-animation.html

Latest news about Season 2 from SDCC:

Spoiler

Havok, Deadpool, Magik, and Colossus are supposedly coming in for Season 2. Of course, Colossus technically showed up enough in Season 1 to warrant endless shots in commercials and on promo art, so I won't hold my breathe until he actually has a relevant episode. But still, latest news!

here is some news about Marvel Anime:
http://marvel.toonzone.net/news.php?action=fullnews&id=352

image:http://marvel.toonzone.net/news/images/anime/Anime_Con_Poster.jpg

and 2 videos:
http://marvel.toonzone.net/news/images/anime/MA_Iron_Man_teaser.mov
http://marvel.toonzone.net/news/images/anime/MA_Wolverine_teaser.mov

seriously??? what the f*** is up with Wolverine?its pretty much a man with long hair,sharp nails with 6 metal claws!that is is not wolvie?!?the video is just a big "?" . it dosnt look like it has anything to do with wolvies background.sure he was in Japan for a while but i doubt he looked like that and faught some weird Japanese-style yu-gi-oh character?

AAHH!

 

[Cyma]

I didn't even know there was a Marvel Anime project The videos look absolutely breathtaking, even though Wolverine looks nothing like the Wolverine we've known for years, lol. Who are the other two characters? Hulk and Spiderman?

 

[Panthro]

^ The question is, could they carry a show? A lot of viewers (non X-fans) barely know any of those guys.The could be added behind a show with Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Jean, Rogue, etc. but never ever have their own shows.

Although come to think of it, if they package the current X-Factor as what it is in the comics, it could actually work. Investigation agency dealing on mysterious stuff yada yada, could work. But having a storyline same as any X-Men cartoons but have lesser popular characters ain't going to work.

And that's the truth of it. But hey, a fan can dream, right?

 

[steve.w]

I would like to see Collossus calling the X men to Russia for help with something (much like in the 90's show) and then his return, perhaps the introduction of his sister too, either to set her up for a spot on the new x men or for her death later on.

I would also like to see more episodes that don't have anything to do with the season story arc, much like in the 90's show and XM:E. Which leads me on to my next point:
I'd like to see an end to this future leading the present nonsense, it's all to epic, if the whole season is leading up to this epic finale, then the non story arc episodes will seem trivial and not important. Much like some of the season 4 episodes of X men evo were on the lead up to the final confrontation with Apocalypse. I welcome the big finale, but I feel they should mix it up abit and not have pretty much the whole season focused on it. I know they have some non story arc episodes now but they often tend to be focused more on individuals rather than the whole team, I want more team missions.

Other characters I'd want to see:
-Morph (from the 90's series) I think he would bring nice comic relief to the series and also he could be a good friend to Wolverine, a true friend like in the 90's series, as I feel that now Wolverine doesn't have a particularly strong bond with anyone, except maybe Jean or Rogue.

-Jubilee, perhaps as a rival of Kitty for the affections of Iceman
-Cable, a tottally badass Cable like in the 90's series, not a watered down version which is what I expect we'll see.
-More actual students, I think the institute should actually be that, rather than just a base for the x men, we've seen Wolverine invite Magma to stay.
-Moira McTaggart, which leads me to suggest that when Xavier returns to the future he should be extremely ill, too ill to lead, I would like to see him seek treatment from Moira, thus solving the problem of Xavier.

My mind has drawn a blank as to who else I would like to see, but I'm sure there are more lol

 

[Dread]

Once again Dread, you make very good points (and yes, JLU was guilty of that). And Dazzler's probably had even worse luck in animation than Havok.

You know, I actually wouldn't mind an X-Men animated series comprised of lesser known characters like Havok, Polaris, Dazzler, etc., and let the more iconic characters take a break. Rogue, Beast, Cyclops, Jean, Wolverine, Gambit and Storm have all been in 3 cartoons thus far, with Nightcrawler & Kitty being regulars in two, it wouldn't hurt to let some other characters have a turn.

My immediate reply is akin to Nature's Rising. An X-Men show wouldn't get the attention or ratings without the A-List characters, and to be fair, even the most jaded fans still want to see them. That is akin to a Justice League series without Batman or Superman (Wonder Woman shows up the least out of the "trinity" in animation and her book usually sells the least). After a while, it would ware thin and you would miss those characters.

On the other hand, BATMAN BRAVE AND THE BOLD probably demonstrates that you can clog a show full of C and D list characters so long as it stars one A-Lister. Granted, the X-Men and that show are totally different animals.

I am curious if an X-MEN FIRST CLASS type show could work; a lighter hearted series adventure starring the founding cast and maybe some of the characters from the pre-Giant Size era. Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Iceman, Angel, Havok, Polaris, Xavier, maybe even Mimic. The only dilemma is that it is a bit of an "all-white" cast. But to be fair, aside for Forge and Storm (and Bishop in the future bits), so is WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN. And of course if such a show made it into a second or third season you could always bring in the Giant Size crew. It's not like Banshee has had terrific animated luck, either. I doubt it would work, though; X-MEN EVOLUTION was probably the only X-Men show that wasn't humorless. It did have a lot of teenage soap angst, and got darker by Season 3. People expect the X-Men to be humorless, though.

But, see, here's the thing; just because I think Wolverine is a hog doesn't mean I would want him completely eliminated from WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN or an X-Men show. He'd still be a member of my ideal 7-8 member X-Men team. Just because I like Colossus doesn't mean I think he could carry a show as a male lead or even with more than 2-3 focus episodes a season. The lie of team cartoons is when writers feel the only way to focus on a character is with specific episodes. Um, no. If you give as many characters as possible organic roles in many episodes and give them distinct things to say and do, they don't need a gazillion specific episodes. Maybe Cyclops wouldn't need 3-4 focus episodes a season if he didn't all but vanish in other episodes. Same for Nightcrawler or Rogue. Iceman, Storm, Forge, Shadowcat...if they do enough in the typical episodes, they don't need "here I am!" spotlight ones, least as often. Beast has often gotten too few in animation, despite usually always being a lock as part of the cast. Unfortunately it has become almost a curse to admit that a team character can't be a star of something; that is untrue. Teams work best when the members don't all clearly overshadow each other and they all bounce off each other. It's easier, especially with the deadline format of a weekly TV series, to just ignore and abandon many "side characters" until you get a chance to do a focus episode before abandoning them again. But, c'mon. That barely worked for G.I. JOE or TRANSFORMERS, some 25 years ago.

Kyle, Johnson, and Yost love their cameos. Lord knows Season 1 in some ways had dozens of named mutant characters. That is the gift and curse of the X-Men. It is very easy to get distracted with doing, "Omigod, look at all the characters I can cram in! Look at all the stories to choose from! Look at all the bad guys! Hurr, HURRR!" The problem is that writing something good requires more than looking at a franchise like a hyper-ventilating fanboy. I mean that emotion is great, but it also needs to be tempered with some rational level-headedness. The 90's show had lots of cameos and whatnot, but it never forgot who the stars were. To be fair, the X-Men films got lost in this sort of mire by the third film, and they had bigger budgets than WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN.

I do understand the feeling of it being a self perpetuating cycle. Many characters get to their popularity not because they are instantly awesome, but because they kept popping up enough that they become familiar to readers/viewers and eventually got a good run. Wolverine included. That said, even I know that Colossus will never be as popular or well known as Wolverine or Cyclops. He doesn't have to be, though. He just needs to show up and be written well when he does.

I didn't even know there was a Marvel Anime project The videos look absolutely breathtaking, even though Wolverine looks nothing like the Wolverine we've known for years, lol. Who are the other two characters? Hulk and Spiderman?

Not sure. I didn't care for the Wolverine one, though. Doesn't just making "Marvel Anime" stand as conceding that anime and manga have succeeded where Marvel has failed to attract the attention of anyone under 18?

And that's the truth of it. But hey, a fan can dream, right?

Sometimes.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well just got back from Comic Con. The following are confirmed for season 2:

COLOSSUS
Magick
Deadpool
Havoc

All of them had design pics up for the show.

Dread, Josh Fine personally announced that Colossus would have a big introductory storyline with Illyana/Magick and implied that Colossus was coming back as a regular.

I interviewed Chris Yost. Chris addressed the Colossus issue, and he said basically they wanted to start out by breaking all the X-men down sort of back to a square one and building them back up. Essentially, the impression I was given that it wasn't anything personal against Colossus like you seem to feel. They just weren't ready to bring Colossus back into the story and they hadn't gotten around to it yet.

COLOSSUS RETURNS with a larger role in season 2. That matter is settled.

Deadpool in the series is HUGE news. Of course it can't be the same violent Deadpool from Hulk VS. But it will be the same attitude I imagine. Kyle and Yost at the panel strongly hinted that Nolan will return as Deadpool since Nolan was on the panel and they were teasing him about it, and asking us if we wanted Nolan North back as Deadpool

 

[Dread]

I may just reply in both topics. Welcome back from doing Toonzone's scouting.

Considering the reviews of HULK VS. WOLVERINE I am not surprised that Deadpool is popping up in Season 2. North already voices him and even if "toned down" I imagine he would still be funny. He's basically just a wise cracking assassin type. Wolverine has already fought plenty of enemies like that, just with no sense of humor. Give him laser guns and it's gravy. It's not so impossible. It's not as hard as Carnage for 90's FoxKids.

I am curious how Havok is handled. As noted above, they could be creative with him considering this show's version of Cyclops is pretty sad sack, they could reverse the whole dynamic. Make Havok the stable, stoic "perfect" capable type and have Cyclops jealous of him. I think handled and acted well, it could be brilliant. It would make more sense than Alex being jealous as usual.

The Colossus news is nice. I won't get my hopes up until I see episodes. For the record I didn't think the writers "hated" Colossus, I simply felt they probably had the same difficulty writing him as many actual comic writers have for years because he is too "goodie" and simple in a franchise that has been built since the 90's on anti-heroes like Wolverine and Gambit. Magik popped into some New X-Men stuff so interesting to see her back; her backstory can be a mess so I am curious how they streamline it for a mainstream audience. Will the whole demon Limbo thing pop up? Can demons work in an X-Men cartoon?

As for Colossus, I am interested in how they manage to squeeze him in after all this time. Thanks for the report.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well they did that Brimstone/demon dimension with Nightcrawler episode in X-men Evolution. Remember, the bamfing SMELLS LIKE BRIMSTONE!

Well we know Colossus is in Russia with his family. Magik is his family. So there is probably an episode that takes the X-men to Russia much like episode 4 took them to Africa where they met Storm and brought her back.

The thing is, from the Cyclops episode, Cyclops more than likely hasn't seen his brother since they were kids. In the 1990's show, Havok had joined X-Factor under Forge as a leading member with his girlfriend Lorna/Polaris (Bobby's ex in the 90's series). Cyclops and Havok did have a scuffle in that show as I recall but I don't think they ever realized they were siblings like Cyclops found out Corsair was his dad.

Forge in this series is already working for the X-men.

Hey, maybe Sinister/Apocalypse have already recruited Havok like Madrox. That would be cool.

 

[Panthro]

I am curious how Havok is handled. As noted above, they could be creative with him considering this show's version of Cyclops is pretty sad sack, they could reverse the whole dynamic. Make Havok the stable, stoic "perfect" capable type and have Cyclops jealous of him. I think handled and acted well, it could be brilliant. It would make more sense than Alex being jealous as usual.

They don't really have any other options at this point, do they? Maybe they should go the Ultimates route and make Alex the older brother.

The Colossus news is nice too.

 

[TheVileOne]

Dread's scenario doesn't really work considering that at the end of season 1, Cyclops is not in such a bad place that he was in at the start of the season.

 

[Panthro]

Dread's scenario doesn't really work considering that at the end of season 1, Cyclops is not in such a bad place that he was in at the start of the season.

Except that deep down he's still an incompetent idiot who can't do anything right unless a certain red head leads him by the optic blast.

A character being flawed is not the problem. A character being NOTHING BUT FLAWS is the problem.

 

[Dread]

Well they did that Brimstone/demon dimension with Nightcrawler episode in X-men Evolution. Remember, the bamfing SMELLS LIKE BRIMSTONE!

Well we know Colossus is in Russia with his family. Magik is his family. So there is probably an episode that takes the X-men to Russia much like episode 4 took them to Africa where they met Storm and brought her back.

The thing is, from the Cyclops episode, Cyclops more than likely hasn't seen his brother since they were kids. In the 1990's show, Havok had joined X-Factor under Forge as a leading member with his girlfriend Lorna/Polaris (Bobby's ex in the 90's series). Cyclops and Havok did have a scuffle in that show as I recall but I don't think they ever realized they were siblings like Cyclops found out Corsair was his dad.

Forge in this series is already working for the X-men.

Hey, maybe Sinister/Apocalypse have already recruited Havok like Madrox. That would be cool.

Yes, I remember XM:E's episode about that "bamf" dimension - Episode 26, "Shadow-Dance". To be honest it wasn't a bad episode but it wasn't one I was fond of. Season Two of that show was very hit or miss. I enjoyed Evolution's simple X-Men universe and episodes that dealt with alternate dimensions, which are probably more unrealistic than genetic mutations, mangled that illusion somewhat. Granted, so did episodes with African magic ("African Storm") or time travel (the Apocalypse stuff). If I recall correctly, since I haven't watched Evolution since it let broadcast TV, that episode was one of the first in XM:E where Wolverine wasn't a complete puss in a fight. As much as you believe I "hate" Wolverine, one of the flaws for XM:E for me was the sheer ridiculous amount of times Wolverine got thrashed in fights. He was a total jobber in that show until about Season 3. I don't mind Wolverine losing to noteworthy threats like Juggernaut or Sentinel, but when nearly every threat of the week laid him out, it got hard to take him seriously. Just because I don't always enjoy Logan as a spotlight hog doesn't mean I want him to go down after being kicked in the shin, for heaven's sakes. But I digress.

It is likely that Magik is part of the Russian past thing with Colossus.

In the 90's series it was never revealed that Cyclops and Havok were brothers to them. When the X-Men fought X-Factor in "Cold Comfort", Jean sensed something between Havok and Cyclops but didn't reveal it. Naturally their powers didn't work on each other properly. But, WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN honestly has quite an opportunity for Havok. He's never been handled especially well in the last two cartoons, and Chris Yost has some experience writing him for KINGBREAKER and other Starjammer stuff. While this show of course always has a high bar for pleasing fans of Wolverine or Cyclops or Storm, Havok is one of those who should be fine so long as he is not totally botched. I mean they have to beat out a non-entity (90's version) or an annoying surfer (XM:E). Hardly difficult, especially for the writers assembled. Or at least it shouldn't be.

In episode 20 it did seem as if Scott has never met Havok or has met him few times. I would also imagine as Havok didn't lose two years of his life to a coma, he might be better adjusted. I always wondered if the show's writers were trying to explain some of Scott's behavior with the coma; he literally lost two years of development. He may be biologically, say, 26, but he may act like he is 24 or younger, and at least has a reason for it. It's not an excuse, but it is at least a reason. People confuse an excuse for a reason often.

Mr. Sinister assembling "X-Factor" to replace some of his Marauders? Possible. In the AGE OF APOCALYPSE, which will pop up in the Alternate Terrible Future portion of Season 2 I imagine, both Summers worked for Sinister, although while Havok was a blind idealist, Cyclops eventually realized Sinister was evil and tried to work from within to topple him and Apocalypse (despite being enemies with Wolverine/Weapon X there).

They don't really have any other options at this point, do they? Maybe they should go the Ultimates route and make Alex the older brother.

The Colossus news is nice too.

W&TXM has other options for Havok, just I feel some could have more potential than others. Execution is also key. A brilliant idea poorly executed is no good. In some ways that was Season 1's problem; some great ideas, but the execution of them was sometimes hit or miss. Not uncommon from a debut season honestly, but still something.

Dread's scenario doesn't really work considering that at the end of season 1, Cyclops is not in such a bad place that he was in at the start of the season.

Perhaps not, but he didn't redeem himself. Despite all the things I railed against regarding Cyclops, up until the climax you could maybe feel that they were trying a subplot of redemption for Cyclops; something happens and he steps up from being a Bitter Never Was into maybe finally meeting his potential. The problem is he never did. He never had to learn to move on from Jean, because Frost found her for him. He didn't have to deal with Phoenix, because Frost did that for him. He never had to lead the X-Men because Xavier had decided to back Wolverine, who at least was getting the day to day work of that done competently. He was just as willing to abandon the X-Men in the face of certain death in episode 26 as he was in episode 1 or at least episode 12.

Cyclops in Season 1 is basically like Harry Potter; someone who whines and stumbles their way through a plot waiting for every plot convenient ally or spell to show up out of nowhere and solve everything completely, or help them do same. Frost served that role for Scott in Season 1. In a way finding Jean meant he never had to change. He never had to learn to stand without her.

In the comics, Havok was jealous of Cyclops because he always saw him as being "stable" and "together" (which is in itself ironic, considering Scott's many periods of being unstable or doing some wonky crap) or a natural leader (something many writers from Claremont to Whedon have denied). W&TXM could just do the same thing with Havok, even if this version of Cyclops doesn't have quite the same positive traits as the comic version sometimes has. Or they could do something different and unique, and I am sort of hoping for the latter, because it could be great. I'm perfectly willing to accept a show that takes risks or twists things up with characters so long as it is executed well and works for the show's own terms.

A character being flawed is not the problem. A character being NOTHING BUT FLAWS is the problem.

Precisely. That in a nutshell has been my main criticism. Least in this one character's regard. One could argue he is the only flawed character the show has, or at the least the only one whose flaws overcome him. Even Wolverine's "brash" impulses are often turned into strengths. Having enemies from your past is not a character flaw; it is still someone bad doing something TO you. It's their damage, not yours. Cyclops' inability to sack up even since childhood has usually been the cause of his life's problems, in this show. Jean is just a catalyst.

Nightcrawler, though, was awesome. I have to admit there will be some fanboy giggling if we ever get to see Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, and Colossus fight together.

 

[TheVileOne]

Perhaps not, but he didn't redeem himself. Despite all the things I railed against regarding Cyclops, up until the climax you could maybe feel that they were trying a subplot of redemption for Cyclops; something happens and he steps up from being a Bitter Never Was into maybe finally meeting his potential. The problem is he never did. He never had to learn to move on from Jean, because Frost found her for him. He didn't have to deal with Phoenix, because Frost did that for him. He never had to lead the X-Men because Xavier had decided to back Wolverine, who at least was getting the day to day work of that done competently. He was just as willing to abandon the X-Men in the face of certain death in episode 26 as he was in episode 1 or at least episode 12.

Cyclops in Season 1 is basically like Harry Potter; someone who whines and stumbles their way through a plot waiting for every plot convenient ally or spell to show up out of nowhere and solve everything completely, or help them do same. Frost served that role for Scott in Season 1. In a way finding Jean meant he never had to change. He never had to learn to stand without her.

In the comics, Havok was jealous of Cyclops because he always saw him as being "stable" and "together" (which is in itself ironic, considering Scott's many periods of being unstable or doing some wonky crap) or a natural leader (something many writers from Claremont to Whedon have denied). W&TXM could just do the same thing with Havok, even if this version of Cyclops doesn't have quite the same positive traits as the comic version sometimes has. Or they could do something different and unique, and I am sort of hoping for the latter, because it could be great. I'm perfectly willing to accept a show that takes risks or twists things up with characters so long as it is executed well and works for the show's own terms.

The show isn't over yet.

 

[Dread]

The show isn't over yet.

No, it certainly isn't.

 

[TheVileOne]

Then you should stop blowing a gasket because all these things could possibly still be addressed or play a part in the story later. The show isn't finished. We just saw the first part of hopefully a long running series.

I think you should be more grateful because we are getting what we want. We are getting Colossus back with some stronger focus. And we ARE GETTING DEADPOOL! Just the fact that they are doing a character named Deadpool in the series on Nicktoons is amazing to me.

 

[Dread]

Yeah, it is. I remember when DEATHSTROKE had to go by his real name, "Slade", on Teen Titans.

I know the show isn't finished, but with the writing crew attached with their collective past work my expectations were higher than it would be for, say, BATMAN BRAVE AND THE BOLD, and many shows don't get 26 episodes to play with in a debut season; they get 13. I WISH some shows of the past had 26 episodes a season. I'm hard on this show for much the same way any rational person would be far harder on a Steven Speilberg film than they would for an Uwe Boll film. Or a theatrical movie vs. a direct to video. It's the writing team from X-Men Evolution and/or Batman: The Animated Series and even a little TMNT joining forces for a brand new X-MEN cartoon. It should be F'ing gold. Instead Season One was bronze, and I think they can do better.

On the other hand, out of all seasons to work out kinks, best to get it out of the way in Season 1. I'm simply a comic fan who has learned that "hope" in the industry for something better is a surefire way to be disappointed. Best to assume it'll be bad or to see how it can go wrong and then be pleasantly surprised.