I agree. If there's anything they did right with Cyclops in this season, it was making him interesting. The trench coat is a simple, but cool addition. As for the color of the coat, I never thought about it that way. I always thought the gray was simply a color choice to complement the rest of his dark blue costume. Hm...
Indeed. Without replying to your whole summary of Season 1, especially since it would repeat many points I have made 500 times by now, I do essentially agree with your comments. I think some of the things that Season 1 tried to accomplish were not executed as well as they could have been. The broken Cyclops angle, Wolverine as a bad leader, etc. They were interesting angles, and at first I was very hostile about them. After episode 26, though, I realized that they were worthwhile angles, I just would have liked to have seen them executed better.
In particular, I never got the feeling that Wolverine was a bad leader. None of the other X-Men ever complained about how he ran things, aside for occasional wise-cracks. Emma Frost ribbed him a few times about it, but she was the newcomer, and Logan didn't trust her. Kitty Pryde was the only one of the "original" X-Men who occasionally joked about some of Logan's flaws, but they were just that; jokes. Not serious complaints. It didn't matter if Logan led them into a trap, or acted too bluntly, or messed up a change to kill Master Mold in the cradle, or involved the team in a fight with ninjas that had nothing to do with them. Or when he would take off for a few days to research nightmares, even over Xavier's objection. None of the X-Men minded. They followed him without question. None of them complained when Xavier chose Logan and no one else to speak through.
The other problem is the compromise with Future Xavier was just that; a compromise. The show's writers state outright in interviews that they wanted to remove Xavier, without killing him outright. The problem, though, is in practice, Logan never led the X-Men; he merely held them together until Future Xavier could make all the major strategy, tell them all the big moves. It created the effect that it seemed as if anyone could lead the X-Men if all that meant was doing exactly what Floating Charlie Head told them to do. Iceman, Beast, or Storm could have done that, and they wouldn't have rode off into Canada in emo fits over nightmares twice a season. "Who cares if the world is falling apart and the situation over Kelly/Magneto/Sentinels could blow over at any minute? I had a dream about killing a little kid; so I'm off for the weekend." Without Future X, Logan would have had to have led the X-Men more, or at least not had that safety net.
There were also moments where the show almost ground to a halt so the writers could explain why Cyclops was wrong about something, or why Logan was better. They were usually always awkward. The ending of episode 12 in particular comes to mind.
Also, if episode 20 wasn't supposed to give the impression that Cyclops was an incompetent X-Man long before Logan showed up and only became competent with Jean leading him by the hand, and he never at any point assumed the role of leader despite Xavier's coddling, then it needed some rewrites so that wasn't an easily gleamed impression.
In the end, though, W&TXM took some chances with Cyclops apart from the norm, or EVOLUTION, and in the end he did get a bit of focus; at least as much as Nightcrawler got, it not a tad more. The problem with the finale is unlike some of the other characters, especially Wolverine (who learned that sometimes you have to trust those you dislike, among other things), nothing about Cyclops changed, and he in no way grew from his experience. Frost finds Jean for him, and saves Jean from Phoenix for him, and even saves him from the Hellfire Club. If Cyclops was supposed to learn to put aside his own emotional desires for the good of the team or the planet, he sure didn't seem to in Season 1's finale. If anything, his whole season of brooding and pettiness was rewarded without him having to compromise on anything. Wolverine learned to put his own feelings aside for the sake of the team a few times; Cyclops didn't. It sometimes feels as if all of the aspects people claim are "boring" when Cyclops is known for them become alright when Logan does them (play den-mother, obey Xavier without question, etc.) That's like people who complain that Superman is unbeatable and thus boring, but are perfectly happy when Batman is unbeatable, so long as he does it with a Batarang (or something). Yet, all of the flaws with being a brooding loner seem to be personified in Cyclops, flaws we almost never see in Wolverine. Even Wolverine's trademark temper barely comes up in this show. Cyclops went on berserk furies that backfired on him quite a few times in comparison.
But, I digress. The trench-coat was cool. Season 2 will be a challenge to write and if the writers pull it off as well as improve on stuff, all this Season 1 nit-picking will feel like just that; nit picking.
Ultimate said:
Well, maybe Scott can serve as the strategist/tactician of the team, working as a...co-leader with Logan? Although I'm not exactly sure how this would play out...
Maybe. I am partly surprised that Beast's role as co-leader diminished quite a bit after the first 5-6 episodes. I thought it was rather cool. I also would have expected Storm to play a fine co-leader role, as Logan and Ororo have usually always gotten along. But, that's all water under the bridge now.
Ultimate said:
I personally want to see Scott x Emma has an actual pairing in this series, but at this point, I have no idea how that's going to happen without Jean dying in some form.
Part of me thinks that Cyclops on this show will play the role of Tuxedo Mask. For those not familiar with SAILOR MOON, Tuxedo Mask was the male romantic lead who was always going through some sort of wonky crap that kept him from being competent or less than annoying. He starts out being mysterious, and even times a jerk. Then he acts alright, but only for 5 seconds. Then he gets amnesia. Then he acts so sweet you want to strangle him. Then he has weird dreams and starts acting like a jerk again. And so on.
So, part of me is thinking something obligatory happens in Season 2 very quickly that either gives Cyclops amnesia or makes him act like a jerk.
Killing Frost was a good dramatic climax but it has left Season 2 written into a corner. Jean Grey was not fleshed well in Season 1 beyond a cipher and part of me doubts whether Johnson, Kyle & Co. are seriously as interested in her as they obviously are in Frost, who usually comes off as a more interesting character. I certainly like Frost way more than I have ever liked Jean. There's no way to have Scott pine for Frost without making him more unsympathetic. If something happens to Jean again, the show is just repeating itself. If Scott turns evil, or decides to work with Mr. Sinister/Apocalypse (as the season one finale hinted), well, then he's a bad guy. Although part of me wonders if the writers would actually be more comfortable writing Cyclops as a sympathetic villain than they were trying to write him as an anti-hero (where he forgot the hero part most times).
I'd like to see Cyclops and Frost as a couple on this show myself, and I am surprised that Season 1 completely abandoned that. Cyclops was obsessed with Jean, or her memory, to the point that he barely acknowledged Frost's presence unless he was asking her to find Jean. Considering Scott & Frost have been a couple in the comics for, gosh, about 4-6 years now in canon, I was surprised that it was denied here. In a way, it would have made Season 1 work a little better for him; Cyclops learns he can love again and stands with Frost and the rest to take Phoenix down. Almost writes itself, doesn't it? Instead, well, that's certainly become messier in Season 2. There's almost no way to do it that I can think of that doesn't come with the consequence of Scott acting like a cad to Jean, and he already bordered being unsympathetic enough. I can't think of too many shows that successfully had a hero act like a cad to a woman and the audience wasn't turned off.
Ultimate said:
I always thought Gambit would have to comment on Cyclops's costume if they ever met in this series. lol
The problem in that is such an exchange would be a sort of in-joke, and WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN has proved to be almost humorless. It takes itself seriously at all times, almost too seriously. Beyond Toad or a few swash-buckling quips from Nightcrawler, everything is played straight. And to be fair, the 90's show was full of characters making awkward one-liners that nowadays are cringe inducing.
Trench coat duel, though...hmm.
Ultimate said:
As do I, but I think it would look better without the skull cap on. Actually...I don't believe I have ever met anyone who thinks the skull cap makes him look better...
John Cassaday.
WOLVERINE AND THE X-MEN could stay on NICKTOONS or could move to DISNEY XD. Who knows.
Maybe we'll get a Gambit Vs. Cyclops fight at some point. Battle of the men in trench coats!
I know it's flogging a dead horse, but seeing Cyclops be right in season 2 would be nice. Having Cycke play Frank Burns to Wolverine's Hawkeye Pierce is getting old (sorry but the thread needed a M*A*S*H reference for good measure).
Besides Omega Red & Juggernaut, who are some other good villains we can send Colossus up against?
I'm not sure how a "battle of the trench-coats" would work. It would probably be hell on the animation budget. Cyclops proved capable of smacking down Marauders, but usually no one else. Gambit, though, usually could outfight a few Brotherhood mutants. Cyclops is excellent long range, but at least in the show can be downed easily by one landed attack close range. Gambit has skills close and long range. If they squared off before a commercial break, my odds would be in Gambit's favor. Remy's probably still more popular with the mainstream audience anyway.
Part of the challenge of Season 2 right now is fathoming how in the world the writers are going to write the subplots with Cyclops considering Frost is gone and Jean is back, but Wolverine is still the headline act on the title card. It has to be a tough assignment. They'll have earned they money if they can pull it off, because not even I can come up with some plot situation that works.
As for Colossus, I wouldn't mind seeing him take on some Sentinels. Or Blob, since I imagine Season 2 will start with Magneto and Quicksilver relying more on the Brotherhood than before. I do kind of expect the Fastball Special as a no-brainer, and was surprised not to see it in Season 1. Blob even got to throw Wolverine at someone! If I was a storyboard artist, my approach to Colossus would be to try to make him seem imposing at all times. Play off that metal body. Things bounce off, things get crushed. If he goes down in a fight, it has to be an incredible task, like taking down Superman in a Justice League fight (and I'd argue that Timm & Co. didn't master THAT until their second season too; Superman went down like a puss very often in JL Season 1). He doesn't have to be invincible, and shouldn't, but his visual only goes so far; he has to back it up, otherwise he seems like a paper tiger. Or a tin man with a glass jaw, as he usually appeared in EVOLUTION (where he literally lost every fight he was in, and usually with ease).
To be fair I did not miss colossus in the first season, in other words I didnt even notice his absence in the season. There were far more important things going on in the season
Anyway the 90s series was very good at neglecting major x men characters Colossus and Nightcrawler only appeared in 2 episodes each and Kitty no episodes.
I missed Colossus because he is one of my favorite X-Men, I'd waited two series to see him do much, and the promotional material for this show had him in a gazillion ads and pictures. It was explained in interviews that they intended to insert him back into Season 1, but the story got out of hand and they wanted to do it justice, so they saved him until Season 2. It'll have been worth it if they pull it off.
I must say that the 90's series is starting to feel a little dated to me now. That's mostly due to the anticipation of the second season of Wolverine and the X-men. If season 2 is str8 fire, I truly believe the 90's series will finally be dethroned as the ideal X-men cartoon. This show has so much potential. Lets do it right fellas!
What's needed:
1. An episode that shows how Xavier actually drafted Wolverine to the X-men
2. An episode that shows how Kelly gave Magneto Genosha.
3. A clear establishment of how much time passed between the Explosion & Wolverine 1st meeting Jean (episode 20)
The 90's X-MEN series is very much a product of it's time in many areas, but without it, we wouldn't be where we are. I doubt an X-MEN film would have been a success without it. And even with some of the time-sensitive stuff removed, I found it holds up better than the 90's SPIDER-MAN show does.
I doubt Season 2 will spend much time explaining bits of backstory that were glossed in Season 1. I think they will forge ahead with the current story and go from there.
To me this show is already way better than the 90s show ,It took me about the first 10 episodes or so of WATXM to decide that.The 90s series is dated in so many ways,unfortunately the nostalgia of the 90s show will blind some people's judgments, I feel the same way about spiderman tas and the spectacular spiderman
What the 90's X-MEN show did effectively was showcase many characters over time, at least for a while, as well as have some very strong writing in-between the one-liners, the bright colors and the energy beams. There was always a sense of real risk or maturity to it, even among 30 foot purple robots. Wolverine did almost become the de-facto star by about Season 4, but that was to be expected.
It is a dated show, though. I'm not opposed to saying a newer show is better. There are many things in EVOLUTION that I enjoyed more. The question will be where W&TXM fits in with all this, besides overcompensating for the lack of Logan in EVOLUTION.
My biggest hope would be that this show stop being a kids show and lets Wolverine be useful, but that'll never happen. Another hope of mine for Season 2 would be that Quicksilver stops clinging to Magneto. I'd prefer him as a Avenger hero at this point. And maybe try to avoid those "doesn't really have anything to do with the plot" episodes. *is pointing at the Hulk and Silver Samurai episodes*
My feelings toward Evolution. I will just never understand Evolution's fanbase...
I enjoyed the Samurai episode overall, but I do agree both of those episodes felt tacked on. "Because we can" is not a good reason to have an episode in a serial show. Besides, there was no reason to have the X-Men besides Logan lose to ninja, the lamest minions in fiction besides Batman rogue goons. Samurai had Mariko; that alone would have forced Logan to fight him.
I am a fan of EVOLUTION and what that show did well was characters. It fleshed out their cast very well and made that interaction the draw of the show. While the plots and action were usually very simple, when they were good, they were fantastic. The network demands I think forced the writers to not rely on Logan too much and make do with the rest of the cast, and they used them well. It also offered a unique remix of the history at a time when ULTIMATE X-MEN was a new launch. It is the show that actually made me like Cyclops, or at least see worth in his character; before 2000, I usually saw him as a boring foil to other characters, like Logan.
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Not Cyclops!!! Pffftt!!!! No one can wear a trench coat like Remy!!!!
