What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

Discussion in 'Ant-Man' started by speno94, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. The Guard Registered

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    Well that was just…just awful.

    -The writing in this movie is terrible. Clunkly, expository dialogue all the way through, and every element handled blunty without an ounce of subtlety. Any creative idea is quickly dispatched in favor of a joke or another action sequence. There's very little tension or building of momentum in this film.

    -The whole movie was generic, save for some of the third act ant/action sequences. And even those weren’t executed with any real sense of wonder, and seemed pretty rigidly executed and handled overall.

    -The undermining of Scott’s criminal past. Easier to root for a guy when he’s robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, I guess. Meh.

    -Cross/Yellowjacket was a terrible villain. Incredibly generic, horribly written and the execution of every element of him was medicore, including the performance by Stoll.

    -The almost pointless “thug friends”. Stereotypical and boring, the lot of them.

    -The almost pointless “replacement Dad character”. Welcome to the early 90’s.

    -Hope Van Dyne was boring, and was acted with one note. Felt like a generic Black Widow ripoff, right down to “taking down men with my legs”.

    -No real development of the relationship of Hank and Janet. It was just “By the way, I had a wife and she was The Wasp and I loved her”.

    -No real development of the relationship of Scott and Hope. Seems like a no brainer, since they'll be fighting side by side.

    The stakes and villain's plot were awful. “Oh no! Hydra will eventually kill people with this technology!" Was Ant-Man or anyone else ever in any actual peril, other than from the bombs ANT-MAN himself set? Cross had him dead to rights and there was no threat there.

    -God forbid they redeem Pym Industries instead of blowing it all up.

    -The whole “we have to do a heist” angle was forced. At least TRY to alert the authorities to the issues at hand. You know, the AVENGERS and so on. Or show why this won’t work?

    -Hydra is guys in suits. Boring. They should have saved Strucker for one more film. Sigh.

    -There wasn’t too much humor. But too much of the humor just wasn’t funny.

    -For a movie about scientists, there was very little pseudoscience in the movie. It was “We developed this and that” and “Huzzah, my years of failed experiments suddenly randomly succeeded for some reason!”

    -Lack of development of Hank and Scott’s relationship with the ants. Oh, so they’re just your mindslaves. Except that one who we're supposed to give a damn because you gave him a name that is a pun on ants, and you barely mourn when he’s blown away. Kay.

    -What did Hope actually do to earn the suit and her father's blessing? Did she do anything of consequence to effect his change of heart? Hank just suddenly seems okay with her having it. This should have been part of the central film. It should have been Ant Man and The Wasp VS Yellowjacket. Colossal missed opportunity in a film about legacies and family and so on.

    -Speaking of missed opportunities, there's a major sequence where Ant Man is GROWING LARGER, and he, yup, stops at normal size. Seems like a missed opportunity there as well.

    -The SUPERMAN RETURNS moment with his daughter. Just...a bit much, and yet not nearly enough.

    -Hank didn’t beat his wife once.

    On the plus side, ANT-MAN may be the first Marvel film not to do the "Oh no! Someone died, but not really, they're okay after all!" Though you could make a case for The Wasp...
     
    #126 The Guard, Jul 26, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  2. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    What are you complaining about that Hank didn't beat his wife once? As if Marvel/Disney were ever going to put that in. And as I've said numerous times, it wasn't a pattern but a once off lashing out in anger when he was trying to push her away from him.

    I hope you'll be complaining that Reed didn't beat Sue once in FFINO too, since Reed did that in the comics and did it more deliberately than Hank.
     
  3. Webfoot Hero West Coaster

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    Are you kidding me? Not showing domestic violence is a negative? Maybe its time for you to move on from MCU films if all you ever do is nitpick and complain. After 12 MCU movies, you'd think you would know if you enjoyed their movies or not.
     
  4. JtheDreamer Slangin Grannys Peach Tea

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. The Guard Registered

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    Because of course I was serious.
     
  6. Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    Sarcasm is very easy to pick up on the internet.
     
  7. The Guard Registered

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    One would think one could apply one's critical thinking skills and reason whether someone was actually disappointed about such a thing.

    (Shrugs)
     
  8. Supernova Registered

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    Few things I didnt like or thought didnt make sense.

    When scott is having lunch with hank and hope and discussing how to control ants. Scott says to hank who are you and what do you do then the very next scene he knows all about hank and cross.

    They establish shrinking can mess with your mind after a while and cross starts to go mad but he never shrunk til the end so was he always crazy then before shrinking?

    We see cross shrink the goat but its never established he can shrink himself or shrink and re grow his yellow jacket suit. The yellow jacket suit is already shrunk in its first introductio. and we never see it full size yet all movie they show cross failing to shrink items so how did they shrink the suit?

    Hank doesnt want hope in danger like her mother but still builds her a costume anyway?

    Also i thought scott was suppose to get stronger when he shrinks like cap but yet couldnt punch through the glass cross catched him in?
     
  9. Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    This is a comic book message board where people regularly get into heated arguments over a films accuracy to the source material. You are a complete stranger to everyone here, I have no idea whether or not that would disappoint you. It's not on us that your joke didn't land.
     
  10. AndrewGilkison Registered

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    To be honest, that was not very well executed humor on your part. You just threw that line in there at the end and expected it to be funny? At least you tried... I guess?
     
  11. Mr.T Registered

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    Not sure about Cross being crazy already, but i do remember Hank saying something about the Ant Man helmet and how it maintains proper brain function when shrinking & how Cross' technology did not take that into consideration. Or something along those lines........I think.... :D

    I just guessed Cross began using it on himself the minute he was able to shrink the goat. Either that or he went crazy after the first few cycles due to the insufficient brainwave regulating helmet like Hank Pym's design uses....
     
    #136 Mr.T, Jul 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  12. Bayne Registered

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    Unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, the shrinking technology already worked at the beginning of the movie. The breakthrough they were trying to force using the lambs was how to safely shrinking organic tissue. You know, so that people wouldn't turn into a mass of goo like the guy in the bathroom. But shrinking the suit itself apparently wasn't any problem for them.
     
  13. Spitfire Registered

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    Directors/writers have a unique style and while I haven't seen Reeds comments the influence of Wright dominates many of the scenes in this movie. Reed took over this project at a late stage and its inevitable that a lot of Wrights ideas remain.

    The scenes where Luis describes the 'network' of conversations linking Hank with Scott were similar to those in Shaun of the Dead & Hot Fuzz. The Thomas the Tank engine scene is strongly influenced by Wright. Same for the giant ant and toilet scenes.
     
  14. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Considering that scene with Luis you mentioned is something that Reed specifically being added to the script either by him or McCay and Rudd, maybe it's not worth speculating what belonged to whom?

    Luis was a very minor character in Wright's script.
     
  15. TheVision Sharp Dressed Man

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    When you read the "Hank didnt beat his wife once" you know the kind of psycho troll youre dealing with. All the other complaints are void. Its just more ripping the movie apart. The characters are weak, the dialogue is clunky, not enough this, not enough that. If the movie was THAT terrible it would be a failure. It also wouldnt get a 79% on RT.
     
  16. Supernova Registered

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    It just felt like a scene with cross using the shrinking on himself would have been helpful or him drinking some serum or something to show him going mad. They specifically said it causes him to go mad but he was already psycho before he ever shrunk. If anything he didnt snap until he was stuck in the bug zapper but again it felt like whole scenes were missing in places. Im also getting tired of our heroes saying they lied to a loved one to protect them especially in hanks situation where it makes zero sense.
     
  17. Silvermoon Made To Be Ruled

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    Even if they hadn't been able to shrink organic/biological/living material until recently, Cross has been working with (and around) his version of the particles for who knows how long. Any exposure he received simply working around them (even if he wasn't using them on himself) is probably what began the processes of affecting him mentally. Also, these aren't necessarily exact Pym particles, if his version is slightly off the side effects could be even more severe/reveal themselves sooner. That's my take on it anyways.
    In the footage they show the potential buyers, they've been able to shrink non-biological items before the movie started. it's living beings that they couldn't seem to get to work... so the suit would be no problem to shrink.
    The uniform was one that was already existing, he tells her that it was a new prototype that he and her mother had started working on before she "died"/vanished. Also, one of the arcs of the movie is that by the end Hank and Hope have come to a new understanding with each other
    Hope equated him having the force of a bullet when small... if that glass was bullet proof glass it makes sense (to me at least) that it would be resistant even to him while he's small.
     
  18. Spiderdevil Registered

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    LOL the Femenazis are already at Marvel's tail at every single thing, they practically forced Joss Whedon to quit twitter because he showed Black Widow's motherly side, I read one article calling out on Ant-man as male-chavunistic because Judy Greer/Lang's Ex-wife wasn't given a bigger role! Imagine had they shown Hank beating his wife! It would become an all out war!
     
  19. Spiderdevil Registered

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    I think the problem with The Guard and a lot of other people (DC fans in particular) try to find an extraordinary message in every superhero movie, its a comedy-heist movie about a man who shrinks, laugh and forget, everyone is not gonna do a Nolan with their Superheroes
     
  20. Supernova Registered

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    As both a DC and Marvel fan I dont try to find extraordinary messages but I do want a clear concise story and not alot of guessing and trying to connect dots because of sudden shifts in stories and things here and there not making sense.

    Unfortunately marvels formula has been the same now since ironman 1 and hasnt really changed except for winter soldier and gaurdians. Hero origin story and they fight a villian of some kind at the end and mix in some laughs here and there and a scene or two of character development. Only difference is everytime its a new hero but same forgettable villians who only serve to fight the hero and die unless your name is loki.
     
  21. Loki882 Registered

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    The problem is when they play at having deeper themes/ideas, but doesn't commit to them. If it were just like, say GOTG, which as a fun, rompey space-opera/comedy and didn't try to be anything more than that, then people would have no trouble accepting it on that level (and most people did). But when you go, "it's about father/daughter relationship, but it's kind of generic," or "we want a strong female character, but she's rhathe similar to ones that we've already done repeatedly, oh and she cannot actually suit up/play a big factor in the climax for lame reasons," or "Hank's pain at his wife's death is supposed to be a big thing,e don't spend time on it or her," and stuff like that, then people notice it. And then you have the generic/undercooked villain who's motivations are hard to understand. You're audience shouldn't be doing a lot of "well here's my take on why he went nuts," or "here's what I THINK probably happened," etc fill in the blanks to get what his deal is. That's just sloppy writing.

    It has nothing to do with expected of these films to be truly "deep." That is a fallacy that so people use to try and brush aside/dismiss legitimate criticisms without actually addressing. If the FILM chooses to introduce these things, then they should follow through with them. And Marvel has proven that the CAN do this well, so there's even less excuse.

    Oh and the fact that people couldn't tell that The Guard was joking about the "wife-beater" thing is just sad because it was freaking obvious to me.
     
    #146 Loki882, Jul 27, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  22. JtheDreamer Slangin Grannys Peach Tea

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    Hope not being able to suit up had nothing to do with "lame" reasons. It was pretty loud and clear that Pym was not going to take any chances and lose his daughter. She's brash and exactly the type of person who might make the same decision his wife did when she disappeared into the Quantum Realm. In fact there was a beautiful moment in the car when Scott and Hope have their first real talk when he mentions how the reason he's there is because he's the one who's expendable.

    Now for the villain stuff, overall it is more par for the course in terms of lack of development. Cross was fine in the beginning, but then the transition into ruthlessness started happening really quickly.
     
  23. TeeKay Registered

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    Looks like someone was not paying attention. It was stated and shown why Hope didn't suit up in the film. Heck her conversation with Scott I'm the car revolves around that issue.
     
  24. Loki882 Registered

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    Yes, I found that lame. The movie is seriously going with "she cannot suit up, even though she's the most competent qualified, because daddy said so and has issue." LAME!!

    Also, while it may makes sense for him, it doesn't make sense that she' just go along with it. It's established that not only is she highly capable and intelligent, but she has no problem defying her dad's wishes. So it'd make much more sense FOR HER to steal the suit and go, "I can do this better than anyone, I'm GOING to help Scott and just try and stop me old man."

    And that's another issues. The defense for it is "well it makes sense for Hank to feel that way" or "it fits Hank's character," and so on. It's all about HIM and HIS issues. It takes a lot of agency away from HER and when you bring up that it doesn't fit HER character, people just kind of try to brush that aside without really addressing it. And having Hank just "gift" her with the suit at the end, giving her "permission" to do this basically, only makes this more obvious.

    If you thought it worked, that's perfectly fine. But, while I did enjoy the film overall, this was the biggest flaw in it for me and it sticks out like a sore thumb.
     
  25. TeeKay Registered

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    You found it lame that a father doesn't wanna lose her daughter the same way he lost his wife? Wow. Parents are generally over protective of their children. I'm not a parent myself but my mom especially is very protective. Even when I turned 18, there was certain stuff she restricted me from doing because she cared that much. Fine if you didn't like it but the reason was given. If the movie had completely glossed over it and not explain why, then yes, it would have been a problem.
     

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