What you didn't like about Ant-Man - Flaws/Critiques

Sure, she'd be safe unless someone shot her in the head or she exploded or was crushed or imploded or something.

At what point in the film did Hank say "I fear you being lost in the microverse"?

I'm fairly certain the issue was the potential loss of Hope, period, not merely her loss in the microverse.
 
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As a father myself, I can understand Hank's motivations of keeping his daughter out of the suit. Didn't think it was a big deal and kind of surprised so many people don't like the reasons given in the movie. These flaws/critiques threads are very interesting in that I enjoy seeing everyone's opinions on what they disliked in the movie.
 
Sure, she'd be safe unless someone shot her in the head or she exploded or was crushed or imploded or something.

At what point in the film did Hank say "I fear you being lost in the microverse"?

I'm fairly certain the issue was the potential loss of Hope, period, not merely her loss in the microverse.

At what point did he say 'I fear you getting shot in the head or exploded or crushed or imploded or something'? I think you are one of those guys who needs every small bit explained in detail

And you missed my other point, why should he chose Hope ahead of Scott when Scott is the Heist expert?
 
I think the problem with The Guard and a lot of other people (DC fans in particular) try to find an extraordinary message in every superhero movie, its a comedy-heist movie about a man who shrinks, laugh and forget, everyone is not gonna do a Nolan with their Superheroes

To the contrary, I think the problem is that they *find* an extraordinary message in the Marvel films, and don't like what that message is: "Heroism is not a lie." Given that practically every DC movie slathers on as much "grim and gritty" "realism" as they possibly can, the idea that maybe, just maybe, a little romantic idealism might actually be better? Is anathema.
 
I think there's something to that.
Some people have an aversion to any movie that wants to have fun based on the misconception that a film with a sense of lightness that doesn't take itself so seriously doesn't have any merit. Which is, of course, complete nonsense.
 
I thought the movie had very few problems to be honest. Cross was the main one, Stoll played the part well but he just seemed shallow and evil just because. But he at least came across as a threat to the hero and the action scenes involving him were great.

Other than that I simply thought some characters/actors were wasted. I enjoyed Michael Pena's role and had fun with it, but the guy is a great actor and could have been given more to do. Same with Evangeline as Hope, though that looks like it will be addressed in future movies.

Other than that I thought the first hour was a bit slow but not by too much. Other than those mostly minor issues I had a lot of fun with the movie and really enjoyed it.
 
I agree, one of my complaints with the movie is that the first hour or so drags a little bit compared to the rest of the movie. I noticed this mostly on my second viewing.
 
I agree, one of my complaints with the movie is that the first hour or so drags a little bit compared to the rest of the movie. I noticed this mostly on my second viewing.

Yeah, I didn't think too much needed to be cut out, but a few minutes shaved here and there would have made a difference imo.
 
I really don't get the vehemence of the people who found Hope's storyline believable. Just because it worked for you doesn't mean other people are lazy or greedy or in any way 'wrong' for finding it unsatisfactory.

Yes, Hank has every reason to not want her to be the Wasp. That's perfectly explained in the movie. The problem is that Hope has no reason to be perfectly ok with that, and yet she apparently is perfectly ok with it, and that is not explained anywhere at all.

Does Hank have a fatherly obligation to give her his suit? Of course not, though if she is the best person for the job and the stakes are really as high as he claims, he probably does have a moral obligation (to society) to do so. Even if he doesn't, the problem is still Hope's (complete lack of) reaction. Just because he isn't obligated to go along with her doesn't mean her natural response should be to just give in and not even try to convince him anymore.

Could she have stolen the suit and used it herself? The answer of course is whatever the writers wanted, she could do. There's certainly no reason given in the movie why she couldn't (yes, the suit was locked up - in her father's house that she knows like the back of her hand using technology she's probably very familiar with).

Could she need Hank's help to get it done, even if she had the suit? I'm really not sure how. Aside from certain bits of family history, Hope seemed to know just about everything Hank knew. She was good at controlling the ants, she was already familiar with the suit. What exactly does Hank bring to the table that's so important she couldn't possibly move without it?

Was she the best person for the job? That's open to interpretation, but my interpretation is: probably, yes. Scott may have the actual theft experience, but right up until the last minute (when Cross got suspicious and tripled security), the most important part of this job was using the suit and knowing the company/building.

Did she have to be standing next to Cross at the moment the theft happened? This is basically the strongest reason the movie gives for what happened, but it still doesn't really convince me. Sure her being late might make him suspicious, but would he really have time to alter his plans? And given the ultimate plan turned out to involve basically bombing the entire place, I don't see how her being in the suit would really change the plan at all.

In regards to Hank's 'character development', where the heck did it even come from? This is exactly why I would've loved to see this IN the movie, rather than tacked on as a mid credits scene, because we would've gotten some actual interaction and development between the characters, so that we could see that Hank finally understood that he couldn't stop Hope from following in her mother's footsteps just because he wanted to. Instead, we see absolutely no character moment and just skip to him giving her a suit with no context at all.

And as to people supposedly wanting everything 'right now', since when has it even been a question that a film should feel complete and believable on it's own without requiring you to watch a completely different movie years later? Not buying Hope's storyline has nothing to do with wanting everything 'right now', it has to do with not buying Hope's storyline. And the 'teaser for the future' argument doesn't even make much sense, considering nobody's really sure if there even is going to be an Ant-Man 2 and Marvel as of yet claims to still have no idea when Hope (ie, in which movie) will actually make her debut as the Wasp.
 
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Hope clearly was not okay with not being able to be in the suit, several times she and Pym argued over it and she even walked out at one point only to be brought back by Scott. She stated several times it should be her in the suit instead of Scott.
 
Feige confirmed Hope will appear in Phase 3. You really think Marvel would just put that mid credits scene and have it lead to nowhere? Come on now. You know that's not the case. They have repeatedly shown that they know what they're doing.
 
I think there's something to that.
Some people have an aversion to any movie that wants to have fun based on the misconception that a film with a sense of lightness that doesn't take itself so seriously doesn't have any merit. Which is, of course, complete nonsense.

Where are you getting this?
 
I really don't get the vehemence of the people who found Hope's storyline believable. Just because it worked for you doesn't mean other people are lazy or greedy or in any way 'wrong' for finding it unsatisfactory.

Yes, Hank has every reason to not want her to be the Wasp. That's perfectly explained in the movie. The problem is that Hope has no reason to be perfectly ok with that, and yet she apparently is perfectly ok with it, and that is not explained anywhere at all.

It's explained. She caused Pym to lose his seat atop Pym Lab. She came back to him when learning of what Cross was up to. She decided to pair up with her father, whom she previously had many issues with, to put a stop to it.

She couldn't just outright disobey him after what her lone single vote caused. If it weren't for that vote, Cross would have never taken over Pym Lab and come close to manufacturing Pym Particles. Not to mention this is a father-daughter fractured relationship we're talking about. It's PERFECTLY conceivable a daughter would decide to listen to her father's direction in hopes of working things out.
 
Hope clearly was not okay with not being able to be in the suit, several times she and Pym argued over it and she even walked out at one point only to be brought back by Scott. She stated several times it should be her in the suit instead of Scott.

That's entirely my point. That all set up her character throughout the first half of the movie. Then, in the second half of the movie, nothing changes, and yet Hope doesn't say a word about how she should be in the suit. After all that vehemence, suddenly she's just mysteriously ok with it all.
 
It's explained. She caused Pym to lose his seat atop Pym Lab. She came back to him when learning of what Cross was up to. She decided to pair up with her father, whom she previously had many issues with, to put a stop to it.

She couldn't just outright disobey him after what her lone single vote caused. If it weren't for that vote, Cross would have never taken over Pym Lab and come close to manufacturing Pym Particles. Not to mention this is a father-daughter fractured relationship we're talking about. It's PERFECTLY conceivable a daughter would decide to listen to her father's direction in hopes of working things out.

That's not an explanation. Because she made a completely unrelated mistake years ago she's somehow incapable of disobeying him now?

And the degree to which it was fractured from the beginning of the movie makes it more likely that she would consider doing so, not less, especially since she doesn't even seem to have a very high opinion of him as a person until the Wasp flashback.

But it's not just the fact that she didn't disobey him, it's the fact that she completely stopped trying to convince anyone she should be in the suit. Nothing had changed. She clearly believed herself to be the best person for the job. She clearly had good reasons to think so, as well. Hank was talking like the fate of the world was in the balance. And she just suddenly shuts up completely and enthusiastically goes along with a plan she doesn't agree with for the sake of saving her relationship with Dad? It doesn't make sense. Certainly not for this character.
 
That's entirely my point. That all set up her character throughout the first half of the movie. Then, in the second half of the movie, nothing changes, and yet Hope doesn't say a word about how she should be in the suit. After all that vehemence, suddenly she's just mysteriously ok with it all.

Hope doesn't say anything later on because Scott Lang proved himself worthy to wear it.

Seriously what movie did you watch? I swear some of you are choosing to remain obtuse as to what transpired in the movie.
 
Feige confirmed Hope will appear in Phase 3. You really think Marvel would just put that mid credits scene and have it lead to nowhere? Come on now. You know that's not the case. They have repeatedly shown that they know what they're doing.

I'm glad to hear that, as I hadn't yet. Still it was Feige's own comments which seemed to say that they didn't know where they were going to use Wasp yet, so I'm not sure how one is supposed to interpret that as she'll definitely be used soon. Even with her confirmed for somewhere in phase 3, since she's already confirmed not to be in Civil War, it seems incredibly doubtful she'd turn up before Infinity War - which is a pretty long way away still.
 
Hope doesn't say anything later on because Scott Lang proved himself worthy to wear it.

Seriously what movie did you watch? I swear some of you are choosing to remain obtuse as to what transpired in the movie.

He proved himself worthy to wear it, use technology he was only barely familiar with and infiltrate the company she knew like the back of her hand after a whole couple weeks (at most) of training. I thought we were talking about saving the world, not winning the superhero cup.

I can see very clearly in the movie that her opinion of Scott improved. It doesn't follow at all that her very strong and often repeated feelings about the mission just vanished into thin air because he wasn't half bad either.

And sometimes I swear some of you are choosing to insult people because you apparently have no better argument. People are allowed to have different opinions and impressions of a movie character. Based on what I saw in Hope, her actions make no sense and that's a major problem in the movie for me. You apparently saw her differently. Yay for you. It doesn't make you some kind of superior intellect, and I'm really not sure why you're getting so upset about people trying to explain the elements of the movie they disliked when the thread is titled 'What you didn't like about Ant-man'.
 
I'm glad to hear that, as I hadn't yet. Still it was Feige's own comments which seemed to say that they didn't know where they were going to use Wasp yet, so I'm not sure how one is supposed to interpret that as she'll definitely be used soon. Even with her confirmed for somewhere in phase 3, since she's already confirmed not to be in Civil War, it seems incredibly doubtful she'd turn up before Infinity War - which is a pretty long way away still.

Feige said Infinity War. It's happening.
 
He proved himself worthy to wear it, use technology he was only barely familiar with and infiltrate the company she knew like the back of her hand after a whole couple weeks (at most) of training. I thought we were talking about saving the world, not winning the superhero cup.

I can see very clearly in the movie that her opinion of Scott improved. It doesn't follow at all that her very strong and often repeated feelings about the mission just vanished into thin air because he wasn't half bad either.

How did Hope know how to use the suit? It's been locked in Pym's vault since the 80's. The only thing she had on Scott was physical training, certainly not being a master thief.

Scott's victory in the end is a clear-cut reason why she was fine with him wearing the suit. You're just digging for some long drawn out deeper reason.

And sometimes I swear some of you are choosing to insult people because you apparently have no better argument. People are allowed to have different opinions and impressions of a movie character. Based on what I saw in Hope, her actions make no sense and that's a major problem in the movie for me. You apparently saw her differently. Yay for you. It doesn't make you some kind of superior intellect, and I'm really not sure why you're getting so upset about people trying to explain the elements of the movie they disliked when the thread is titled 'What you didn't like about Ant-man'.

I'm not upset. You're choosing to ignore what the movie detailed. Your objection has more to do with personal preference.
 
How did Hope know how to use the suit? It's been locked in Pym's vault since the 80's. The only thing she had on Scott was physical training, certainly not being a master thief.

And yet she seemed to know plenty about the tech. Maybe she was wrong about her being the better choice, but it was clearly something she believed fairly strongly.

Scott's victory in the end is a clear-cut reason why she was fine with him wearing the suit. You're just digging for some long drawn out deeper reason.

Thats completely circular.

I'm not upset. You're choosing to ignore what the movie detailed. Your objection has more to do with personal preference.

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm telling you why I found the reasons given in the movie unconvincing, the crux of which is: Hope was too antagonistic about the whole thing to just suddenly drop into line without any obvious change having happened. You, on the other hand, are just continually calling me a liar.
 
And yet she seemed to know plenty about the tech. Maybe she was wrong about her being the better choice, but it was clearly something she believed fairly strongly.

She knows "plenty"? Based on what - that she wanted to wear it? She originally was cockstrong, but again Scott proved his worthiness and it was no longer an issue. Before, she had no faith because he was just some thief who had been in and out of prison.

Thats completely circular.

Getting tiresome. :whatever:

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm telling you why I found the reasons given in the movie unconvincing, the crux of which is: Hope was too antagonistic about the whole thing to just suddenly drop into line without any obvious change having happened. You, on the other hand, are just continually calling me a liar.

So she has to remain antagonistic throughout the whole film from beginning to end even though Scott saved the day and showed he could not only manage the suit, but rescue himself from the Quantum Realm ...... which was believed to be inescapable? OK makes complete sense.

The change was obvious. Unfortunately you just need every little nuance explained to you via grandiose exposition.
 
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She knows "plenty"? Based on what - that she wanted to wear it? She originally was cockstrong, but again Scott proved his worthiness and it was no longer an issue. Before, she had no faith because he was just some thief who had been in and out of prison.



Getting tiresome. :whatever:



So she has to remain antagonistic throughout the whole film from beginning to end even though Scott saved the day and showed he could not only manage the suit, but rescue himself from the Quantum Realm ...... which was believed to be inescapable? OK makes complete sense.

The change was obvious. Unfortunately you just need every little nuance explained to you via grandiose exposition.


That is the most ridiculous 'restatement' of another person's argument I've ever seen.

No. She doesn't have to remain antagonistic to the very last second of the movie regardless of what happens. She should show a gradual change away from her heavy antagonism as she comes to see things in a different light. Or at the very least have a clear epiphany moment that explains why the change is so unbelievably sudden. Her just generally thinking 'Yeah, this guy isn't as bad as I thought he was' really doesn't cut it when it comes to explaining such a passionate person making a complete 180 on such an important subject.
 
That's entirely my point. That all set up her character throughout the first half of the movie. Then, in the second half of the movie, nothing changes, and yet Hope doesn't say a word about how she should be in the suit. After all that vehemence, suddenly she's just mysteriously ok with it all.


Well, as another poster said not only did Scott prove himself worthy, but he made Hope realise why Pym wants him in the suit instead of her, as Scott outright tells her, he's expendable to Pym, Hope is not. Plus halfway through is when Pym tells Hope how her mother really died, so plenty changes and its no mystery why she is 'suddenly' okay with not being in the suit. She outright knows WHY she cant be in the suit in the 2nd half of the movie. This was all in there dude and they were big points in the movie.
 

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