When does Norton change to the Hulk?

[Sundancer]

The story plays it like it's his pule or heart rate--he wears a monitor, practices calming himself, yet why wouldn't he change when he's being chased and his adrenaline is pumping?

I think he only changed when he felt he or Betty was in immediate danger. Maybe he thought he changed because of his pulse rate...it's the only way I can explain this possible plot hole.


Hard to believe he can run all over Brazil but not get a little busy with Betty.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It was his heart rate. That's why he keeps checking the monitor during the chase and why he backs off having sex with Betty in the motel.

Also, he was in Brazil, not Portugal.

 

[Sundancer]

Also, he was in Brazil, not Portugal.

Fixed.

But when he changes into the hulk, he's basically stationary, at least the first and second time...

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

One pet peeve of mine has always been the way the TV show (and TIH clearly took a lot of elements from the TV show) shifted the idea of transformations being linked to 'anger' (which I though provided a great metaphor) to stress/pain.

Why didn't Bill Bixby just ever get really pissed off and transform? That's what the Hulk's all about. Instead, he only seemed to change as a result of being bullied - and not just bullied, but experiencing pain after being bullied. I would have liked to see him transform before he got thrown down the stairs.

If I were to make excuses for TIH, I would say that Banner didn't understand the transformation fully and, therefore, simply tried to avoid risky behavior.

. . . but I have no interest in making excuses and I wish future writers would bring things back to anger rather than other factors.

 

[Luther102]

You must believe it

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

You must believe it

non-sequitar man strikes again, haha.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

One pet peeve of mine has always been the way the TV show (and TIH clearly took a lot of elements from the TV show) shifted the idea of transformations being linked to 'anger' (which I though provided a great metaphor) to stress/pain.

Why didn't Bill Bixby just ever get really pissed off and transform? That's what the Hulk's all about. Instead, he only seemed to change as a result of being bullied - and not just bullied, but experiencing pain after being bullied. I would have liked to see him transform before he got thrown down the stairs.

If I were to make excuses for TIH, I would say that Banner didn't understand the transformation fully and, therefore, simply tried to avoid risky behavior.

. . . but I have no interest in making excuses and I wish future writers would bring things back to anger rather than other factors.

You're right, I never thought of it like that, I guess they might have adapted it that way so that the character was a little more sympathetic, like, they wanted to show the audience that it was only after he had been assualted that he struck back, so it was not like he was the one throwing the first punch.

edit: but, y'know, as far as i recall from the Hulk comics that i have read, it was pretty much the same kind of deal, there would be a good reason why he hulked out.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yea i didn't like that his changed due to an elevated heart rate. He should change because of his anger/rage, the emotion.

 

[Evil Twin]

I'm ok with the transformation being essentially tied to negative feelings such as anger, pain, fear, etc. Tieing it simply to "excitement" seems to undercut some of the depth of the character.

 

[El Payaso]

One pet peeve of mine has always been the way the TV show (and TIH clearly took a lot of elements from the TV show) shifted the idea of transformations being linked to 'anger' (which I though provided a great metaphor) to stress/pain.

I'm very sorry?

The whole idea of the TV show was that Hulk was "driven by rage."

Why didn't Bill Bixby just ever get really pissed off and transform? That's what the Hulk's all about. Instead, he only seemed to change as a result of being bullied - and not just bullied, but experiencing pain after being bullied. I would have liked to see him transform before he got thrown down the stairs.

No, no, no, no, no.

In some of the episodes it is very clear that he would transform while he's sleeping having nightmares. It's all about rage.

Now, Dr. Banner had a threshold.

If I were to make excuses for TIH, I would say that Banner didn't understand the transformation fully and, therefore, simply tried to avoid risky behavior.

. . . but I have no interest in making excuses and I wish future writers would bring things back to anger rather than other factors.

Neither do I. I didn't like the idea that whatever it happen, he would turn into Hulk merely because of 200+ heartbeats by a minute.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm very sorry?

The whole idea of the TV show was that Hulk was "driven by rage."



No, no, no, no, no.

In some of the episodes it is very clear that he would transform while he's sleeping having nightmares. It's all about rage.

Now, Dr. Banner had a threshold.

The first transformation in the pilot was great - when he was in the rain changing his tire. Who hasn't experienced something like that and felt on the verge of bursting? But after that they settled into a dull pattern. Thug picks on David. David protests. Thug punches or pushes David out of sight where he grabs some body part in pain. Eyes turn green . . .

They could have very simply altered a few of those scenes to have him change from being angry before he was pushed down the stairs and banged his knee. That could have made things much more interesting.

They did talk about rage and anger but rarely showed it properly. Part of it was the writing and part of it was Bill Bixby. He was very controlled and never really lost his temper. They needed situations and an actor who could get pissed off occasionally for things other than being picked on by a thug (or at least focused on his anger from being picked on rather than the physical pain).

There were a few episodes that had some interesting elements, and I don't want to bad-mouth a show that did what it could with what it had, but it could have been a much better show if they stretched a bit and broke out of the formula more often.

 

[El Payaso]

The first transformation in the pilot was great - when he was in the rain changing his tire. Who hasn't experienced something like that and felt on the verge of bursting? But after that they settled into a dull pattern. Thug picks on David. David protests. Thug punches or pushes David out of sight where he grabs some body part in pain. Eyes turn green . . .

They could have very simply altered a few of those scenes to have him change from being angry before he was pushed down the stairs and banged his knee. That could have made things much more interesting.

They did talk about rage and anger but rarely showed it properly. Part of it was the writing and part of it was Bill Bixby. He was very controlled and never really lost his temper. They needed situations and an actor who could get pissed off occasionally for things other than being picked on by a thug (or at least focused on his anger from being picked on rather than the physical pain).

There were a few episodes that had some interesting elements, and I don't want to bad-mouth a show that did what it could with what it had, but it could have been a much better show if they stretched a bit and broke out of the formula more often.

That's a different styory. I agree that too many times Banner would hulk-out due to the same excuse of the thug beating him. But it was very much stated that it was anger what triggers the transformation and the show didn't "shift the idea of transformations being linked to 'anger' (which I though provided a great metaphor) to stress/pain."

In the very intro it was stated that it was anger what would drive the creature. But rage is not only about tantrums and huffs. I know I'd be pissed off if a thug were beating me, or if I was tied up unable to save someone I love, which was many times the case.

 

[marcvader]

Elevated heart rate is the result of stress, anxiety, exertion. The monitoring of the hr is a tangible way of measuring the levels of those physiological changes. It helps him know his threshold or limits before the **** hits the fan.

 

[El Payaso]

Elevated heart rate is the result of stress, anxiety, exertion. The monitoring of the hr is a tangible way of measuring the levels of those physiological changes. It helps him know his threshold or limits before the **** hits the fan.

Stress, anxiety, exertion and erection.

 

[elgaz]

There's always been a bit of inconsistency in why and when Banner changes into Hulk.

Anger/rage is of course the most suitable metaphor ("the beast within") but it can't always be consistent. If Banner wakes up in a bad mood, does he change into Hulk?

Heart rate & exertion was shown in TIH, but that's not really a trigger for his change - or he would transform every time he went for a run or had a workout. It was just a handy but imperfect way of signalling when he might change.

Stress levels are also shown as a trigger sometimes, but again ......... Banner is on the run, and pretty much stressed all the time. If he spilt a cup of coffee and stressed about that, would he change?

Or it could be a combination of all the factors above.

Although anger/rage is the most suitable metaphor and thus is often quoted as the precise reason why Banner changes into Hulk, I feel that there is a better one : survival. When Banner is in danger or his life is at risk, his survival instinct kicks in and he Hulks out. Hulk is the physical manifestation of Banner's survival instinct, and all the rage/anger that Hulk uses is a defence mechanism.

Consider these examples -

• Banner turns into the Hulk in the original TV series pilot when he hurts his hand while changing a wheel. He experiences pain in his hand, and pain is often a trigger for our survival instinct to kick in - i.e. we try and remove ourselves from what is causing the pain
• Banner Hulks out in Ang Lee's Hulk when imprisoned and experimented on. He awakens in a glass tank filled with some liquid (water?) and changes. Survival instinct again - he was trapped and lashed out.
• Banner transforms in TIH after willingly jumping out of the helicopter to face the Abomination. Note that as he's falling towards the ground, he's relatively calm and certainly not angry - and he doesn't change. He actually opens his eyes in shock just before the impact when he realises he's not hulking out. However, just as he impacts (we don't know if it's moments before or after) he changes into the Hulk - IMO that was his survival instinct kicking in at the last moment before he would have died from hitting the ground.
• Again in TIH, Banner is surrounded in a walkway after being chased by soldiers. Gas is fired into the walkway and starts to affect him. He's not really angry in this scene - he just wants to get away. Of course, he sees Betty being restrained and this suggests to the audience that anger triggers the change, but IMO it could have been the fact he perceived his life as being in danger from the soldiers and gas - it's pretty ambiguous.

 

[Dark Raven]

That's a different styory. I agree that too many times Banner would hulk-out due to the same excuse of the thug beating him. But it was very much stated that it was anger what triggers the transformation and the show didn't "shift the idea of transformations being linked to 'anger' (which I though provided a great metaphor) to stress/pain."

In the very intro it was stated that it was anger what would drive the creature. But rage is not only about tantrums and huffs. I know I'd be pissed off if a thug were beating me, or if I was tied up unable to save someone I love, which was many times the case.

In the TV show, it wasn't just some thug beating him up that did it. You have to see the whole context. Usually that was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. What often happened was that Banner's frustration level was building up already, either because he had to stop someone from committing a crime or save someone else and he couldn't do it on his own, and then the thugs would add insult to injury by beating him up as well. So there already was an anger there under the surface.

Bixby's portrayal of Banner also always gave the impression that he had rage under the surface and was always struggling to keep that reigned in.

He did change as a result of getting frustrated and angry: eg transforming as a result of an annoying telephone operator (again, when Banner was trying to save someone); getting angry at the cab driver for sitting in traffic and not moving into the correct lane (again, trying to save someone) and so on.

Yes, there were many times he did change as a result of stress too (eg being stuck under sand and gravel; being put in a car crusher; being hunted; quicksand etc. But these usually came at the end of a whole sequence where Banner was already in a frustrated state (from trying to save someone) and then being knocked out and coming to and realising he's helpless.

But as for these bullies, as anyone who has been bullied would realise, it's not just the physical trauma. It's the emotional trauma as well, and that's what's likely to have set him on edge - facing the injustice of the situation and being angry about it, and then on top of that having the bullies offer the beat down that pushes him over the edge, together with the searing pain.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

It was implied in the TIH deleted scenes that Banner runs everyday trying to control his heart rate and also keep himself active should the need arise for him to flee from Ross and Co. You're right, I believe they meant that the heart rate controls his transformation, even until the last scene when he's in the cabin.

But also, we know from scenes in the movie, that the rapid heart beat is not the only trigger. Emotion and stress, like the first movie, seems to be the biggest factor. When he was trapped in the University bridge, when he was beaten up in the factory, and when he was shocked by the Researcher, and when he threw himself off the helicopter. All of these are examples how that the transformation has to do with those two elements.

 

[El Payaso]

It was implied in the TIH deleted scenes that Banner runs everyday trying to control his heart rate and also keep himself active should the need arise for him to flee from Ross and Co. You're right, I believe they meant that the heart rate controls his transformation, even until the last scene when he's in the cabin.

But also, we know from scenes in the movie, that the rapid heart beat is not the only trigger. Emotion and stress, like the first movie, seems to be the biggest factor. When he was trapped in the University bridge, when he was beaten up in the factory, and when he was shocked by the Researcher, and when he threw himself off the helicopter. All of these are examples how that the transformation has to do with those two elements.

Those emotions would raise his heartbeats. In the end whatever raised his heart rate would trigger than transformation. Anger... or sex.

 

[Dark Raven]

I wonder if Jennifer Walters turns into She-Hulk during sex because her heart rate gets raised?

But what happens if she's already She-Hulk and engaging in the act?

 

[Endeavor]

I think Jennifer is She-Hulk most of the time. She doesn't change back and forth like Bruce

 

[gugumugats]

Now i'm wondering if Banner ever jerked it to see if it would make him Hulk out. He is a scientist after all ...

Stupid sexy Banner.

 

[Username.]

Funny thing here, is that Ed Norton transformed into the Hulk, but the Hulk transformed into Mark Ruffalo. BAZINGA.