Comics Which Spidey villain has Marvel screwed up [the most]

[DACrowe]

?

Well that is the question. I will list a number of fan favorites and people can vote on which they think later writers have ruined or messed up important storylines of (if any). For example, I am hugely perterved that Jenkins has turned the Lizard into a full villain with Conners being evil and having controlled the lizard all along and turning his son into a mini-Lizard. A real **** on what Stan Lee did.

This is all opinion of course though.

 

[The Joker]

Venom.

He hasn't been half way decent since the 80's. Green Goblin's return since the Clone saga has left alot bad taste in people's mouths too with many of his stories.

But his hasn't been all bad like Venom's IMO.

 

[Venom 1988]

Venom

 

[Jeffers]

No villain has been screwed up more than Carrion, who was terrifying when he was first introduced in the late 1970s as the Jackal's decomposed clone.

Then everytime the original clone story got retconned, Marvel put out another story reestablishing his identity. They should have just left him alone.

 

[Dr.Dude]

Overall.... the Green Goblin. Ever since he was ressurected with a cop-out healing factor explanation, Osborn's become exaggerated to the point where all the menace he once had is lost, then he's been overused now to the level where that same menace can never be brought back, because everytime he "strikes personally" at Peter Parker it's become groaningly cliche. I hate to admit it, but at this point I really just want to see him die again, permanently, so he's finally out of the picture, and that's not the way someone should feel about Spider-Man's arch-nemesis.

Second place goes to Venom..... can the writers just stop trying to re-imagine the character already, as if they want to make him get just more and more convoluted? Unlike the Goblin, though, Venom could be easily fixed.... just bring him back to the way he was originally --- a dark mirror image of Spider-Man, a lunatic with a perverted moral code whose one obsession was ripping Spidey's head off. If they'd just bring Venom back to that, make him appear rarely enough that his appearances carry some impact, and toss all that convoluted bull**** that writers have tagged onto him aside, then Venom would rise back to his old spot in the rogues gallery again.

But ah well....

 

[Venom 1988]

Second place goes to Venom..... can the writers just stop trying to re-imagine the character already, as if they want to make him get just more and more convoluted? Unlike the Goblin, though, Venom could be easily fixed.... just bring him back to the way he was originally --- a dark mirror image of Spider-Man, a lunatic with a perverted moral code whose one obsession was ripping Spidey's head off. If they'd just bring Venom back to that, make him appear rarely enough that his appearances carry some impact, and toss all that convoluted bull**** that writers have tagged onto him aside, then Venom would rise back to his old spot in the rogues gallery again.

Totally agree with that.

 

[Cyclops]

Totally one hundred percent SCORPION.

They turned an intelligent, powerful man into a third-rate raving idiot slapstick villain.

And one thing they ALWAYS forget is that Mac Gargan did not get his powers from armor. He got it from genetic modification. He naturally has the Scorpion's powers, just not his tail. So why, when he got the symbiote, did he not have Spider-Man powers compounded atop Scorpion powers? He should now be IMMENSELY powerful, pushing into Hulk-class, yet because Mark Millar didn't do his homework, he gave us a third-rate villain dressed up as a third-rate villain who got the popularity of a first-rate villain.

 

[Kraven]

I'd say Venom, ever since all of his minis in the 90's.

 

[DACrowe]

Well it is close one for me between Venom and Lizard. While I agree bringing Norman back was stupid and he has been overused since then, he overall is still a great villain. Even if they have made him now a little bit like Lex Luthor or the Kingpin (except he knows the hero's identity....which makes all the difference) he has had some great storylines like when he turned the whole city against Spidey the murderer and Parker would have to see Norman face to face and do nothing. Or the kidnapping, or hwen he breaks Hobby out to beat the **** out of him, or when he drugs Peter into becoming a Goblin. The last great one SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE LAST ONE, where he ****s up Flash (his own former worker) and Spider-Man beats his traps and is basically like, "You can't break me. I'm resilent, I'll always be back. You can't win." And then Norman realizing Peter is right puts a gun in his mouth.

I know they lefti t vague if he pulled the trigger but he should have. Jenkins also gave us a great Venom storyline taking Venom back to his roots but unfortunately Millar ruined both of these stories in well fell swoop making Goblin tired and old like he was in the Final Chapter storyline and a number of others from the '90s with the lousy Sinister Twelve and making Brock give up his symbiote (even after it bonded to him permanently....again).

Really though, the biggest disappointment to me is the ****ting on Curt Conners and what has made the character so tragic and important for 40 years. Just retire the villain if you can't write him then.

 

[Red]

Venom

The 90's really screwed him up.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

doctor octopus. i dont mind all the venom stuff but i feel a mad scientist like doc ock hasnt done anything good ina while and he needs to really do something to screw around with pete's life. like if baby may's alive maybe he can go kidnap her...

i just wana see somebody match my fave villain green goblin


Alos morlun shuda stayed dead the first time. was that ever explained btw? howd he come back, cos cant he just do it again??

 

[The Joker]

Overall.... the Green Goblin. Ever since he was ressurected with a cop-out healing factor explanation, Osborn's become exaggerated to the point where all the menace he once had is lost, then he's been overused now to the level where that same menace can never be brought back, because everytime he "strikes personally" at Peter Parker it's become groaningly cliche. I hate to admit it, but at this point I really just want to see him die again, permanently, so he's finally out of the picture, and that's not the way someone should feel about Spider-Man's arch-nemesis.

Second place goes to Venom..... can the writers just stop trying to re-imagine the character already, as if they want to make him get just more and more convoluted? Unlike the Goblin, though, Venom could be easily fixed.... just bring him back to the way he was originally --- a dark mirror image of Spider-Man, a lunatic with a perverted moral code whose one obsession was ripping Spidey's head off. If they'd just bring Venom back to that, make him appear rarely enough that his appearances carry some impact, and toss all that convoluted bull**** that writers have tagged onto him aside, then Venom would rise back to his old spot in the rogues gallery again.

But ah well....

Very nicely said

They turned an intelligent, powerful man into a third-rate raving idiot slapstick villain.

Scorpion was intelligent?? He never came across as that to me.

 

[Arcturus]

Marvel screwed up so many characters, it's insane. But what really gets me is how they screw up the most powerful villain Spider-Man has ever faced, the Walrus.

So much potential...

 

[MyPokerShirt]

no, i always thought scorpion was a bit of a ****, tbh.
Venom suffered from being the only new addition to spideys rogue gallery in years. likewise green goblin. when you get a new villain, even one that has appeared before but just not in a long time, then they get overused because despite nearly always starring in four books, Spider-Man's main rogues gallery consists mainly of the vilains you see in the poll above. whenever a new writer attempts to bring something new to the fold like morlun, they generally **** it up... like morlun.

 

[The Joker]

Venom suffered from being the only new addition to spideys rogue gallery in years.

Venom suffered because there's nothing else they can do with the character. He's a one trick pony. They did all they could do with him in the 80's. Marvel ran out of ideas for him. So they started churning out BS ideas just for the sake of keeping him around.

likewise green goblin. when you get a new villain, even one that has appeared before but just not in a long time, then they get overused because despite nearly always starring in four books, Spider-Man's main rogues gallery consists mainly of the vilains you see in the poll above. whenever a new writer attempts to bring something new to the fold like morlun, they generally **** it up... like morlun.

The Green Goblin died in ASM #122. Who or what ever came back in the Clone saga is not the REAL Green Goblin. It's some pale imitation of the real thing.

It's got nothing to do with new villains.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

nah, you're wrong. theyre pale imitations of their former self because they were overused. because when venom first came out he was popular so they bled him dry and when GG came back they just had to make him the arch nemesis by using him again and again and again... oh well IMO

 

[Sabretooth]

Pffft. Venom could bounce back just like that if THE writer ever showed up. The guy who's broken beyond repair is Scorpion. Guy got no respect before MKSM,and usually only showed up to get owned by Spider-Man. Now they merge him with a symbiote? Utterly ******ed.

 

[Dark Spidey]

I'm torn between Scorpion and Venom. They were both an "Anti-Spider-man". And that's fine. Every Superhero needs a dark contrast to hold a mirror up to. But the trouble with this is that makes them a one trick pony. Which is where the problems lies.

Used every now and again a one trick pony is great. However when used again and again it gets old. So the writers tired to tweak the character (Venom in particular). Not realising that Venom only works because he's one dimensional.

So seeing as The Scorpion was the original Anti-Spider-man. You could blame Venom coming along for his downfall.

As for Venom I put it down to over-use of the character.

Interesting to note that they've now combined both the "Anti-Spidey's" into one character.

 

[The Joker]

nah, you're wrong. theyre pale imitations of their former self because they were overused. because when venom first came out he was popular so they bled him dry and when GG came back they just had to make him the arch nemesis by using him again and again and again... oh well IMO

That's the problem with Venom right there. He's a one trick pony. Using him again and again just makes it worse.

Ok, so he's supposed to be the "unbeatable" enemy for Spider-Man. Spider-Man is scared of him etc. Great. So now what do we do with him?? How many times can Spidey slip away from him alive without actually defeating him??

They quickly ran out of ideas with a character like that. So they went into BS territory. He went anti hero. Then that went stale. So they spawned another symbiote villain Carnage. So he was an excuse to keep Venom around, because he essentially felt he was responsible for stopping him, since he spawned him. And that caused several team ups between Spidey and Venom.
Then they exhausted the ideas there. So they gave Venom cancer. Then they made the Scorpion become Venom. Oh, and then we got Toxin. It goes on and on. They try one cheap parlour trick after another.

See they can't keep Venom fresh and an actual threat to Spidey because he just cannot be written that way. So they come up with one lame idea after another for him. He knows who Spider-Man really is, yet he's done nothing with that except scare MJ once.
He blames Spider-Man for his loserness, yet anyone with half a brain can see all Brock's problems are his own fault. I always found his motivations for hating Spider-Man very weak. Marvel just ran out of steam with the character years ago.

He's done nothing of major significance in the Spider-Man mythos. He has no stories that are considered classics. Venom's stories have been 90% crap. He hasn't had a really good story since the 80's. Like I said, a one trick pony.

As for the Green Goblin, like I said, he should never have been brought back. His death in ASM #122 was greatness. Nothing good has come of his return.

 

[Cyclops]

Very nicely said



Scorpion was intelligent?? He never came across as that to me.

So I guess any idiot off the street can be a top PI. There is no way a guy who made a career out of spying on people became the raging moron that Mac Gargan has become.

 

[Cullen]

Damn it, I'm never with the in crowd.

I voted Green Goblin. He had a perfectly good exit. They ducked it up big tme.

 

[November Rain]

gargan was basically venom before venom was venom

gargan got ****ed royally. I can't believe they didn't take this opportunity to put him in a film in order to gain the respect he deserves that would inevitably be translated into the comic book world...

gargan got gang raped and left on the cutting room floor time and time again....

it's about time he got 'the last hunt' treatment. (without the death)....

 

[The Joker]

So I guess any idiot off the street can be a top PI. There is no way a guy who made a career out of spying on people became the raging moron that Mac Gargan has become.

Maybe so.

But the Scorpion himself was never portrayed as a particularly smart or intelligent guy. He always came off as meat head with muscles. Stan Lee portrayed him as an angry brute, and other writers have followed that.

Even before his transformation, he was like "Yeah do whatever you want to me, so long as the money is good". That's hardly an indication of an intelligent man.

 

[November Rain]

to be fair, that shows his loyalties lie with cash and really isn't an indication of his intelligence in his field.

surely having a top newspaper owner hire him clearly shows that he's good at what he does, which in turn requires a level of intelligence.

there was a vs thread here a few years ago, where gargan was accepted by those on the hype to be more intelligent than brock and actually voted for him to go through in a tournament thread. it was one of the best thread reads ever.

 

[The Joker]

to be fair, that shows his loyalties lie with cash and really isn't an indication of his intelligence in his field.

surely having a top newspaper owner hire him clearly shows that he's good at what he does, which in turn requires a level of intelligence.

Or it shows that anyone with enough $$$$ can have him do whatever they want. Stan made it clear that money talks for someone like Gargan.

He was subjecting himself to genetic change, having absolutely no idea about what it does or the possible side effects. He was just interested in being paid the right price.

As I said, that hardly shows intelligence: