Who could take the Maestro?

torkibe said:
While I admit the first punch was a sucker punch, after that the whole group was pretty much getting owned. And if you're gonna say the SS sucker punched Hulk, Hulk returned the favor after he smashed the device because at that point the Surfer stopped fighting.

However, you are correct, neither combatant was at full strength. Lucky for the Hulk ;)


Well I agree with you that it was 2 sucker punches...but honestly I don't think the SS should be aqble to beat the Hulk through only physical means (that is without draining him of his energy).
 
Ahura Mazda said:
Well I agree with you that it was 2 sucker punches...but honestly I don't think the SS should be aqble to beat the Hulk through only physical means (that is without draining him of his energy).

I guess that all depends on how long the fight lasts. I mean, the surfer is well above Class 100 strength, and we really don't know what his physical limit might be cuz that's never been tested (as far as I know). In theory, the Hulk has no limit, so, who knows...
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
I'm sure he has. On paper, though, the Silver Surfer wins every time because the nature of his abilities makes it really easy for him to take down any energy-based beings.
Under normal (understanding) conditions, sure. But as many say it, I think you have too, Hulk may have a little bit of mystical elements in him too. Some things he's done shows he might be able to go against the Surfer alot better than many think.
 
Horrorfan said:
I don't agree with that one at all...

It doesn't matter what you agree with, he would in reality if he was not holding back. Pete is a good 40 or more times stronger and at least 5 times faster. Those are the things that count in a fight, speed first then strength. Wolverine is not strong enough to rip through Pete's webbing with his bare hands, his claws yes, not his hands.
 
I just read Future Imperfect for the first time and I can now say that King Thor could take the Maestro even if he had to resort to just his fists and Mjolnir (maybe using the odin power to augment his strength)
 
BAH HUMBBUG! said:
It doesn't matter what you agree with, he would in reality if he was not holding back. Pete is a good 40 or more times stronger and at least 5 times faster. Those are the things that count in a fight, speed first then strength. Wolverine is not strong enough to rip through Pete's webbing with his bare hands, his claws yes, not his hands.

You mean his claws that come out of his hands?


Wolverine just needs one good slash and it's all over. Peter needs to get in close to effectivly finish him off, and he isn't a killer....if he did kill wolverine, he wouldn't really be spiderman, would he? Wolverine heals really fast, from wounds that would kill most. Peter couldn't. And its only speculated that he could break adamantium....Peter took his best, most powerful shots at wolverine's skull, and still lost. By the time he had decided to try and break wolverines neck. the fight would be over and he'd have a claw lobotomy.

In 'reality' (ie the reality of the comic world )wolverine beat spiderman...thats just the way it goes.
 
Horrorfan said:
You mean his claws that come out of his hands?


Wolverine just needs one good slash and it's all over. Peter needs to get in close to effectivly finish him off, and he isn't a killer....if he did kill wolverine, he wouldn't really be spiderman, would he? Wolverine heals really fast, from wounds that would kill most. Peter couldn't. And its only speculated that he could break adamantium....Peter took his best, most powerful shots at wolverine's skull, and still lost. By the time he had decided to try and break wolverines neck. the fight would be over and he'd have a claw lobotomy.

In 'reality' (ie the reality of the comic world )wolverine beat spiderman...thats just the way it goes.



Uggghhh.... Its stuff like this that makes me wonder why I even come to this message forum.
 
Alex Summers said:
Uggghhh.... Its stuff like this that makes me wonder why I even come to this message forum.

Don't stay on my account :D
 
Alex Summers said:
Uggghhh.... Its stuff like this that makes me wonder why I even come to this message forum.

Lol not sure why this turned from Maestro to Wolvie vs. Spiderman, but most of these fights boil down to the fanboys, no offense since most of us are fanboys if we admit it or not.

Fact that that argument carries back and forth so well shows if nothing else that both have reasons they can beat the other. Spiderman can't hit harder than the hulk, Wolvie has taken the best hulk hits and gotten back up and was good to go so the whole Spidey knocking him out is very tough to swallow. Wolvie has trouble keeping up with Spidey's speed on paper, but in their actual fight Wolvie did well and Spidey complemented his speed. Read the Sabertooth vs. Ms. Marvel fight long before Sabers upgrade, Ms. Marvel well above even Spidey's current strength gave Sabertooth her best punches and he took them and laught them off, not only that but he was slugging it out with her not slashing her, then she slowly wears out and even coments he keeps coming for more and she's getting weaker. Now add an adamantium skeleton, and Wolvies been buffed up past a jobber lvl sabertooth I'd think, and pull down the strength lvl by a good what 35 tons? Spidey may have the speed but what's it matter if Wolverine heals from every hit before Spideys fist is back in postition to hit again.

What's more read one of if not the first Sabertooth vs. Wolverine fight, got the comic myself :). Where Sabertooth hits wolverine and breaks his fist, that's how it should go IMO. Spiderman with superstrength should not be able to throw a 1,000 punches against the hardest known metal and feel nothing, sometimes normal ppl break their fists hitting someones face, now put 15+ton strength against unbreakable metal....

Now there are reason's spidey can win too, fact is spidey and Wolvie are damn near even and that's why the arguments are so heated, plus the fact that wolverine wasn't always a top contender only more recently has given weaknesses in his defense on beating anyone, but he's different now than when he started. Spiderman did have wolvie's head on a tomb stone and just couldn't hit him hard enough to do anything but make Wolverine smile, now if Hulk can hit wolverine hard and far stronger than anything Spiderman's capable of and wolverine jump back up, that's saying something.

My opinion is no real clear winner will be seen, we'll always be given a draw so arguments and hype like this can continue. Fact is if Spiderman wins then it'll slightly hurt wolverine's hype, and if Wolverine wins...well chances are Spiderman would be dead. Wolverine can't win more fights than he does for the simple fact that razor sharp claws are his trade mark, he wins and that means his opponents in the emergency room or the morgue.

Personally I think both sides hype both characters too much. In all honesty Spiderman probably can't wound Wolverine too much, but he can control the fight. Longer the fight goes more spiderman wears down and Wolverine starts to take over. Wolverine was created to be a Hulk villain of sorts and is a brick slayer more or less, he's made to take hits far more than the best Spiderman shot can give. But I'm still not taking anything from SPidey, like I said he can control the fight and get more hits in, but that doesn't mean he can win. It comes down to it'd honestly, no fanboy exaggerations, take 100's if not 1,000's of hits from Spiderman to wear wolverine down and even then 2 mins later he'd be back to full, it'd take one good tag from Wolverine to take spiderman out, but could he land it? Last thing I'll say on it is it does come down to endurance IMO, Wolverine once battled with Omega Red for 60+ hours straight, no breaks and was weaker by a bit then than he is now. If he can keep swinging for 60 hours against someone like Omega Red non stop, I just can't see it being possible for Spiderman to wear him out. If Spiderman can't wear him out, and Wolverine has proven to take far more than what Spiderman can dish out and keep coming....I in all honesty just couldn't see spiderman taking it short of a plot device like a building dropping on Wolverine.

BTW yes I'll admit Wolverine's my favorite char, Spidey my second lol. Just remember tho this is comics, and much like pro-wrestling typically the most popular guy wins lol. What looks good on paper, their powers, what they've done in the past and so on mean nothing if the writer could care less. I've seen Wolverine take a Hulk lvl hit and stumble backwards, then get hit by a non superstrength character and get knocked on his back, same with many other characters. So really if they fought it'd matter less on what they can/can't do and more on who was getting the push, and with Wolverine on a movie high, and a new spiderman flick coming out, I just couldn't see Marvel letting them fight or lose to the other atm.
 
I just found out about this tread and I dont want to start another argument like the one of wolvie vs spidey but didn't DD found a way to kill wolvie by closing his wind pipe or something? I f someone is gonna answwer this question don't post an answer lto start another debate but just so I can know. And my main question here is did the maestro killed every hero in the future where he existed?
 
FadingCB said:
Now there are reason's if Wolverine wins...well chances are Spiderman would be dead. Wolverine can't win more fights than he does for the simple fact that razor sharp claws are his trade mark, he wins and that means his opponents in the emergency room or the morgue.
.


Your whole post was very good, but thats the point Im trying to make. The ONLY reason Wolverine wouldn't be able to get a definitive win is because it would mean no more spidey. He could have killed him in the one shot, and that would be that. So technically, spidey is only alive by wolverine's graces. and someone like daredevil shouldn't be on either guys levels, in all honesty.
 
FadingCB said:
Lol not sure why this turned from Maestro to Wolvie vs. Spiderman, but most of these fights boil down to the fanboys, no offense since most of us are fanboys if we admit it or not.

Fact that that argument carries back and forth so well shows if nothing else that both have reasons they can beat the other. Spiderman can't hit harder than the hulk, Wolvie has taken the best hulk hits and gotten back up and was good to go so the whole Spidey knocking him out is very tough to swallow. Wolvie has trouble keeping up with Spidey's speed on paper, but in their actual fight Wolvie did well and Spidey complemented his speed. Read the Sabertooth vs. Ms. Marvel fight long before Sabers upgrade, Ms. Marvel well above even Spidey's current strength gave Sabertooth her best punches and he took them and laught them off, not only that but he was slugging it out with her not slashing her, then she slowly wears out and even coments he keeps coming for more and she's getting weaker. Now add an adamantium skeleton, and Wolvies been buffed up past a jobber lvl sabertooth I'd think, and pull down the strength lvl by a good what 35 tons? Spidey may have the speed but what's it matter if Wolverine heals from every hit before Spideys fist is back in postition to hit again.

What's more read one of if not the first Sabertooth vs. Wolverine fight, got the comic myself :). Where Sabertooth hits wolverine and breaks his fist, that's how it should go IMO. Spiderman with superstrength should not be able to throw a 1,000 punches against the hardest known metal and feel nothing, sometimes normal ppl break their fists hitting someones face, now put 15+ton strength against unbreakable metal....

Now there are reason's spidey can win too, fact is spidey and Wolvie are damn near even and that's why the arguments are so heated, plus the fact that wolverine wasn't always a top contender only more recently has given weaknesses in his defense on beating anyone, but he's different now than when he started. Spiderman did have wolvie's head on a tomb stone and just couldn't hit him hard enough to do anything but make Wolverine smile, now if Hulk can hit wolverine hard and far stronger than anything Spiderman's capable of and wolverine jump back up, that's saying something.

My opinion is no real clear winner will be seen, we'll always be given a draw so arguments and hype like this can continue. Fact is if Spiderman wins then it'll slightly hurt wolverine's hype, and if Wolverine wins...well chances are Spiderman would be dead. Wolverine can't win more fights than he does for the simple fact that razor sharp claws are his trade mark, he wins and that means his opponents in the emergency room or the morgue.

Personally I think both sides hype both characters too much. In all honesty Spiderman probably can't wound Wolverine too much, but he can control the fight. Longer the fight goes more spiderman wears down and Wolverine starts to take over. Wolverine was created to be a Hulk villain of sorts and is a brick slayer more or less, he's made to take hits far more than the best Spiderman shot can give. But I'm still not taking anything from SPidey, like I said he can control the fight and get more hits in, but that doesn't mean he can win. It comes down to it'd honestly, no fanboy exaggerations, take 100's if not 1,000's of hits from Spiderman to wear wolverine down and even then 2 mins later he'd be back to full, it'd take one good tag from Wolverine to take spiderman out, but could he land it? Last thing I'll say on it is it does come down to endurance IMO, Wolverine once battled with Omega Red for 60+ hours straight, no breaks and was weaker by a bit then than he is now. If he can keep swinging for 60 hours against someone like Omega Red non stop, I just can't see it being possible for Spiderman to wear him out. If Spiderman can't wear him out, and Wolverine has proven to take far more than what Spiderman can dish out and keep coming....I in all honesty just couldn't see spiderman taking it short of a plot device like a building dropping on Wolverine.

BTW yes I'll admit Wolverine's my favorite char, Spidey my second lol. Just remember tho this is comics, and much like pro-wrestling typically the most popular guy wins lol. What looks good on paper, their powers, what they've done in the past and so on mean nothing if the writer could care less. I've seen Wolverine take a Hulk lvl hit and stumble backwards, then get hit by a non superstrength character and get knocked on his back, same with many other characters. So really if they fought it'd matter less on what they can/can't do and more on who was getting the push, and with Wolverine on a movie high, and a new spiderman flick coming out, I just couldn't see Marvel letting them fight or lose to the other atm.


I find it laughable that you think spidey knocking out wolvie is hard to swallow yet you cite some of the worse cases of writing imaginable.




WEBBING = Win for spider-man
 
Horrorfan said:
Your whole post was very good, but thats the point Im trying to make. The ONLY reason Wolverine wouldn't be able to get a definitive win is because it would mean no more spidey. He could have killed him in the one shot, and that would be that. So technically, spidey is only alive by wolverine's graces. and someone like daredevil shouldn't be on either guys levels, in all honesty.


No the fact is on paper Wolvie should never tag spider-man because of the speed difference along with spider-sense.
 
rodhulk said:
Under normal (understanding) conditions, sure. But as many say it, I think you have too, Hulk may have a little bit of mystical elements in him too. Some things he's done shows he might be able to go against the Surfer alot better than many think.
The only mystical element I recall seeing in the Hulk was his ability to see ghosts. I don't see how that'd help him against the Surfer.
 
"Wolvie has taken the best hulk hits and gotten back up and was good to go so the whole Spidey knocking him out is very tough to swallow."

Wolverine has NEVER taken the best hulk hits. Ever. He's been hit by the hulk yes (knocked out in one punch many a time, beaten in two many a time also).

Never Ever has he taken the best hulk hits. (look at their very first fight)).
 
gildea said:
"Wolvie has taken the best hulk hits and gotten back up and was good to go so the whole Spidey knocking him out is very tough to swallow."

Wolverine has NEVER taken the best hulk hits. Ever. He's been hit by the hulk yes (knocked out in one punch many a time, beaten in two many a time also).

Never Ever has he taken the best hulk hits. (look at their very first fight)).

True, but their very first fight was an unfleshed out wolverine where his claws might have been attached, he probably didn't have any other abilities other than fighting skill. Characters in their first appearance always are weaker than later on. Heck pretty sure superman couldn't fly in his first appearance, just could simply 'leap over tall buildings'. Characters evolve for better or worse. Take a look at the Wolverine vs. Grey Hulk. His very first blow impaled the hulk, blood splatter and everything. At that point he realized every slash did cut the hulk but that the hulk simply healed fast. The fight progressed and the hulk hit harder and wolverine simply got more and more into the fight. Now grey hulk may not = savage hulk, but grey hulk's strength far surpasses spiderman's strength. If Wolverine could take hits from a Grey Hulk simply wanting to fight for kicks, and only get angry by them, then how does weaker Spiderman hits knock Wolverine out is all I'm saying. Some Spiderman fans (not knocking anyone) will simply say, "Spiderman wins in 1-2 punches" and won't listen to facts. Heck Wolverine was sent into orbit with a punch from someone far stronger than Spiderman and survived, tho it was funny in Wolverine's expense :).

BTW what's your definition of 'knocked out"? To say Hulk's knocked out Wolverine in 1 punch many times would mean most hulk vs wolverine fights ended in one blow. They've fought a decent amount of times, but I can't remember one of them ending in one blow, but I could be wrong. To me a knock-out blow in comics is the win. Where the foe goes down and the victor walks off.

Anyway not trying to argue, was just presenting facts of Wolverine taking far stronger blows than Spiderman could offer, not knocking Spiderman. As for everyones argument of Spiderman webs him and it's over....eh. That's just a weak argument IMO, to me a fight in a comic ends with a clear winner, not one opponent walking off with the other unscathed. All Wolverine would have to do is slightly angle his arms and pop his claws or if their out, retract them and he's cut the web. He can cut thru himself if necessary. Plus even if Wolverine's bound it'll be like last time where Spiderman pounded away and it didn't phase Wolverine. Spiderman would punch away at a tied up Wolverine, realized it wasn't working and jumped off to come up with another strategy while Wolverine frees himself. Spiderman is tired from all the punching, and Wolverine is as if he just woke up and was fresh and good to go.

Sorry last I'll say on it, hi-jacking of thread from me is over heh, just defending my point :).
 
Pretty much if Wolverine didnt have a healing factor or if Spider-man did have a healing factor, I'd say Spider-man would win, but that would be a What If.
 
I thought Wolverine was physically stronger in his first appearance than he's settled into over time, given that he somehow managed to fight both the Hulk and the Wendigo without being turned into reddish paste. At least, that's what the Wolverine fans tell me whenever a debate over how much Wolverine sucks comes up. :confused:
 
TheCorpulent1 said:
I thought Wolverine was physically stronger in his first appearance than he's settled into over time, given that he somehow managed to fight both the Hulk and the Wendigo without being turned into reddish paste. At least, that's what the Wolverine fans tell me whenever a debate over how much Wolverine sucks comes up. :confused:

Eh who knows. He's always been listed as Peak human condition, then it got bumped up to something like superhuman or something. I'd have to check again, I know he's not like a 5 or even probably 1 class heh. Sabertooth is pretty strong tho, I'd put him at Spiderman strength or more, one of his earlier appearances had him crush a metal weight like it was a paper wad and 3 hit knocked out Rogue.

Just outta curiosity, I understand the whole Maestro thing and read a bit of it, but not all. Who actually, or how was he beat when he came to the regular timeline like someone said above? I'm taking it Hulk beat him back but ppl have said He's stronger, smarter and so on, so heads above the Hulk.
 
If memory serves Hulk sent Maestro back in time to the moment when the gamma bomb that created him happened. Maestro was caught at ground zero and vaporized.
 
BAH HUMBBUG! said:
What's your point?


just mentioning it to go aginst those that say him flying at super speed then putting his force into a hit would beat him.I think the only one who stands a chance is mark milton.
 
Spiderman would hit disproportionately harder than hs lifting strength would suggest due to the fact that his punches travel faster. It would not be unreasonable to assume that he punches around the Things level especialy considering his victories over Titania, Crusher Creel, and Firelord.
Another candidate to defeat the Maestro is the powered up Gamora.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"